Kassian RFA year

[alt kilgore]

If you insist on believing things like that then there is no point in trying to discuss it from an objective point of view.

That Kesler could play on the wing, for even a temporary situation until the end of the season? Torts seems to think he's better suited on the wing. I guess you know better. Or that Hodgson could have scored one or two goals in that LA series? Yeah wow, that's way out there.

[Baggins]

1. It wasn't a choice between putting the team on his back and carrying the team to a Cup victory or not making any difference at all. jeez. I suggested how close the games were and that yes, a goal here or there might change that particular games outcome, and then, if you watch sports you'd know, momentum and confidence can change a series. But you go on believing that a team that went to the SCF the year before, with most of its parts still intact, had an impossible task winning against the 8th seed, NO MATTER WHAT.

2. But where did you hear another team was gunning for Kassian when we acquired him? Was there a bidding war I was unaware of? He was developing a reputation as a bit of a project even then. The trading deadline was closing fast, I'm sure Zack would have still been there that Summer. ......But even if not, the Canucks would have gotten SOME good player or prospect that Summer if Cody still had to be traded, from Buffalo or somewhere else.

3. Yes I understand that one of the pre-chosen prospects that Gillis had scouted ahead (Kassian) had become available. That was the carrot. Doesn't mean you have to jump for it just because its there for now. So he traded a beef steak for a carrot. Buffalo had it right, they were trading away a difficult project for a player that could help them NOW, Vancouver was doing the opposite heading into the playoffs and as a favorite.... they must have been shaking their heads at Gillis. Like I said there is a time to trade for help now, and time to trade for a rebuild. That was not the time to trade for the latter.

I don't want to hash this all out again, like I said I am happy to have Kassian, but I hate revisionist history making. It feels better I guess to convince yourself that you heard on some radio station from some caller who knows the janitor in Rogers Arena that Cody was demanding a trade and was a cancer in the dressing room etc....so the fairy tale can have a nice happy ending where the evil spoiled King Joffrey is banished from the kingdom.

Actually it was Gillis that made the comment about Cody wanting to be traded the previous summer. His answer to Cody's agent was to let him play here that season to build his trade value first. Not quite the same as a random caller claiming to know the Canucks janitor. Which of us is the revisionist?

[GrogZilla]

With everyone & his dog predicting Kassian will break out in the next couple of years, I don't think there's any chance of him signing cheap long term.

I'm thinking 1.5 mill for next season & add another .5 mill for every extra season.

1.5 mill per year for 1 year

2.0 mill per year for 2 years

2.5 mill per year for 3 years

3.0 mill per year for 4 years

Anything more then 1 year & you have to overpay him now in the hopes that he'll be underpaid by the time it expires.

I expect him to sign a similar contract to what Tanev signed last year. 1 year @ 1.5 mill

[Rush17]

With everyone & his dog predicting Kassian will break out in the next couple of years, I don't think there's any chance of him signing cheap long term.

I'm thinking 1.5 mill for next season & add another .5 mill for every extra season.

1.5 mill per year for 1 year

2.0 mill per year for 2 years

2.5 mill per year for 3 years

3.0 mill per year for 4 years

Anything more then 1 year & you have to overpay him now in the hopes that he'll be underpaid by the time it expires.

I expect him to sign a similar contract to what Tanev signed last year. 1 year @ 1.5 mill

The idea of getting Kassian at a killer deal in the future is an attractive one. But I personally do not believe he has shown he can elevate his game enough to warrant an eventual 3m a year deal. If Kassian were to Plateau at this point his trade value would be pretty bad. Then again with the cap increasing perhaps it would not be as terrible as we may think now.

I think a shorter deal perhaps 1-2 years at a lower cap hit would do both Kassian and the org well. Give him a chance to prove himself and show he deserves a better contract. He has shown some great signs of improvement but he has to show he can be consistent. This stretch to the end of the season will be a good first marker for that.

Just my thoughts though. i am no expert though.

[Baggins]

That Kesler could play on the wing, for even a temporary situation until the end of the season? Torts seems to think he's better suited on the wing. I guess you know better. Or that Hodgson could have scored one or two goals in that LA series? Yeah wow, that's way out there.

He'd have to score more than one goal as that's what Pahlson provided. So he'd actually need to supply more than Pahlson to give us any hope of a better fate. Which means he'd need to double his regular season goal production rate in the playoffs to be a difference maker in that series. It could well be "out there" to believe he could do that. Possible - sure. Likely - I don't think so.

[Baggins]

With everyone & his dog predicting Kassian will break out in the next couple of years, I don't think there's any chance of him signing cheap long term.

I'm thinking 1.5 mill for next season & add another .5 mill for every extra season.

1.5 mill per year for 1 year

2.0 mill per year for 2 years

2.5 mill per year for 3 years

3.0 mill per year for 4 years

Anything more then 1 year & you have to overpay him now in the hopes that he'll be underpaid by the time it expires.

I expect him to sign a similar contract to what Tanev signed last year. 1 year @ 1.5 mill

I actually don't think he'd sign that. Last summer with the cap going down 40 to 50 point players were getting deals the were $4m+. Now those were UFA's but RFA's aren't as far behind any more because of the fear of offer sheets. I actually think he'll be asking for a one year deal.

[alt kilgore]

Actually it was Gillis that made the comment about Cody wanting to be traded the previous summer. His answer to Cody's agent was to let him play here that season to build his trade value first. Not quite the same as a random caller claiming to know the Canucks janitor. Which of us is the revisionist?

Wow, do you have a source for that claim? I tried to google any story on that and couldn't find anything. And you say I'm revisionist? LOL (Even if.. I have a hard time believing in everything that comes out of Gillis's mouth as some do.)

Here's my sourced Hodgson response to his Dad interfering and himself asking for more playing time:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/cody-hodgson-still-dealing-with-canucks-rumours/article14909466/

“This isn’t Pee-Wee hockey where the dad can call up the coach and interfere with what’s going on,” Hodgson told The Province. “This is professional hockey and that sort of thing doesn’t happen. He never called the team. You just can’t do that. That’s been bothering me for a long time and I want to clear that up. I’m not sure where all of that got started, but my agent [Ritch Winter] handled the stuff with the team.”

And there was the matter of playing time: “I never once asked for more ice time when I was in Vancouver, even though the media asked me every day if I thought I should be playing more. I was just happy to be playing in the NHL when I was there at that stage of my career. When you guys in the media would ask me, I told them then that I hadn’t asked for more ice time. There’s no way I was saying one thing to them and then going in behind closed doors and doing something else. I wouldn’t ever do that. That just isn’t me. Some day I’ll talk about my time in Vancouver, but not right now.”

On not asking to be traded:

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/02/28/cody-hodgson-denies-he-asked-canucks-for-trade/

Cody Hodgson is adamant he had not asked for a trade from the Canucks and was surprised to leave the NHL team in a trade with Buffalo that reconfigured both teams on Monday.

Hodgson, 22 was swapped along with spare-part defenceman Alexander Sulzer to the Sabres near the NHL trade deadline for unproven power winger Zack Kassian, 21, and extra defenceman Marc-Andre Gragnani.

“I was as shocked as anyone,” Hodgson told The Province on Monday evening. “I didn’t see it coming. I really like the city and the fans and the guys are great. But I understand it’s a business and I’m moving on to a new opportunity.”

Interesting that Gillis never said a word about Hodgson until the Canucks were bounced in that first round and he was criticized for the move. I guess it comes down to who you believe...a decorated, ex-junior Captain, well respected by coaches and commentators...or....a seasoned lawyer who found himself under the spotlight after his SCF team the year before was out in 5 games for lack of a goal here or there.

[Absent Canuck]

With everyone & his dog predicting Kassian will break out in the next couple of years, I don't think there's any chance of him signing cheap long term.

I'm thinking 1.5 mill for next season & add another .5 mill for every extra season.

1.5 mill per year for 1 year

2.0 mill per year for 2 years

2.5 mill per year for 3 years

3.0 mill per year for 4 years

Anything more then 1 year & you have to overpay him now in the hopes that he'll be underpaid by the time it expires.

I expect him to sign a similar contract to what Tanev signed last year. 1 year @ 1.5 mill

If Kass evolves to his draft status of 13th overall, that pay schedule would get his agent fired.

If I had a crystal ball that told me he would become the 25 to 30 goal scoring 65 to 70 point power forward , then he would be demanding 6 million at age 25.

If he had shown more consistency this year I would have tried to sucker him with 4mil for 8 years. Lasting until he was 31.

Since he didnt we have to use a bridge contract. 1.75 for 2 years but we will pay for it in the contract after that.

[oldnews]

Pahlsson was acquired independently. Not that he was a success for us.

Cap is a problem for all contending teams. Pahlsson wasted $2.7. Ballard as a cap dump was an potential package with CoHo. You want a good young player at the deadline, cap dump is par for the course along with... Or waiting till summer when everyone is looking for good young players and a bigger market. A guy in contention, fringe is fair to argue, for rookie of the year normally usually commands more than a less advanced rookie of otherwise similar stature.

Anyways; enough on old business we can agree to disagree on. What will Kass command?

I was estimating bridge contract 1.7 mill ish, 2 years.

Palsson was an absolute stud. The only shortcoming there was that he wanted to go play at home to finish his career.

I hope they sign Kassian for slightly more than he's presently 'worth' and on a longer term. The cap in the next year or two may not be too difficult to manage - a few years down the road, who knows.

[SabreFan1]

so the fairy tale can have a nice happy ending where the evil spoiled King Joffrey is banished from the kingdom.

Please tell me that you didn't just post a Game of Thrones spoiler in a hockey forum. That will so screw me out of enjoying a major part of the show. If you did, you will be the first person I have ever ever put on ignore on a message board.

[Canuck Surfer]

Palsson was an absolute stud. The only shortcoming there was that he wanted to go play at home to finish his career.

I hope they sign Kassian for slightly more than he's presently 'worth' and on a longer term. The cap in the next year or two may not be too difficult to manage - a few years down the road, who knows.

Whether you can agree on a long term deal is always the question. When Kesler was signed at $5 mill per, actually his 3rd contract, many questioned $5 mill for 6 years it was questioned. Now it looks like a bargain.

I do agree Kass looks like an obvious keeper. But he has not shown enough to command $25 or $30 mill. Probably not even Cody money, which was also inflated by the team virtually having no other centers, therefore no leverage. Its probably in the players interest to sign shorter term. He could burst out and then command ?

If understand correctly, contracts expiring at 26 go UFA? So ideally we want no longer than a 2 year deal or a 5 / 6 year one. Kesler had 1 year $1.9 mill (Philly offer sheet) and 3 year $1.75 mill bridge deals. Then his six year $30 mill deal. Wayne Simmonds was 23 when he signed his last deal. Simmonds was more accomplished but not as tantalizing physical attributes at time of deal in comparison to Kassian. I view them as more valuable at ante up time.

Again, as he has the ability to bust out, if I'm his agent I suggest a shorter deal and dont take anyone up on any deal too close to what he is making now. Guys his size, who can skate and dangle don't grow on tree's, in spite of not having any prolific numbers to sell his client on. But I conclude, using Kesler 's bridge and Simmonds current contracts as rough comparables that perhaps two year $1.7 bridge or six year $3.7 mill deals ($20.1 mill) might be max acceptable / fair range?

[dura_mater]

Kilgore: you realise it's about more than just whether he could have "potted us a few goals" against L.A.? He could have easily allowed more goals against us as well. It's your opinion he could have scored a few more goals making a difference, the facts are that in his 12 playoff games with the canucks he was a -4 with 1 assist. That small sample size would suggest, not only would he not contribute offensively for us but if he did he'd likely still be a minus player, thus hurting the team.

[Merci]

4 years at 2.5 with bonuses would be a steal.

I hope Kassian isn't greedy and goes for a 2+ year deal.

[Noseforthenet]

Kass is just starting to scratch the surface of his potential. That goal he scored tonight which Garry Valk had to replay again and again just to show how much Kass has matured and is using his size and strength as a power forward. I mean, people talk about Jensen, but Kass has 5 points in two games, lol. As much as Jensen has had in his entire career thus far.

[Gollumpus]

Please tell me that you didn't just post a Game of Thrones spoiler in a hockey forum. That will so screw me out of enjoying a major part of the show. If you did, you will be the first person I have ever ever put on ignore on a message board.

Not to worry, it's spoiler free.

regards,

G.

[Gollumpus]

Kass is just starting to scratch the surface of his potential. That goal he scored tonight which Garry Valk had to replay again and again just to show how much Kass has matured and is using his size and strength as a power forward. I mean, people talk about Jensen, but Kass has 5 points in two games, lol. As much as Jensen has had in his entire career thus far.

It is good to see Kassian perform well. Now hopefully he can continue to perform at this current level (or do better) for the remainder of the season, and into the playoffs (assuming that that particular long shot pays off).

If nothing else, Kassian ending this season on a high note will hopefully give him a lot of confidence in his abilities, and inspire him to train hard and keep in shape during the off season. This being said, I'm not getting too high on Kassian. I wouldn't be surprised if he cooled off just a bit for a few games, although I would be disappointed. The question will be, assuming Kassian does cool off, in just how many of the remaining games might he be a non-factor?

regards,

G.

[Absent Canuck]

Kass is just starting to scratch the surface of his potential. That goal he scored tonight which Garry Valk had to replay again and again just to show how much Kass has matured and is using his size and strength as a power forward. I mean, people talk about Jensen, but Kass has 5 points in two games, lol. As much as Jensen has had in his entire career thus far.

This is without Kesler, or Sedins nor any power play. 5 points with Richardson Matthias and Booth. That to me is impressive.

[Canuck Surfer]

4 years at 2.5 with bonuses would be a steal.

I hope Kassian isn't greedy and goes for a 2+ year deal.

A steal value wise? Yeah probably.

But it would also make him UFA at age 27. Not exactly leveraging the best long term use of a good asset.

I'd prefer two years under $2 mill, then if he becomes what we hope and gets rewarded with a 6 year big deal. If he takes the 2 year bridge deal we have to be prepared to pay him if he performs! See Subban. His next deal might be expensive, but they could have a Norris calibre 225 lb defender locked up for most of his career. Kassian would then be UFA at age 31.

[SabreFan1]

Not to worry, it's spoiler free.

regards,

G.

Thanks for letting me know. I've been speculating on how he will lose the throne. It's one of the major story lines that has me, hook, line, and sinker.

[nuck luck]

Wow, do you have a source for that claim? I tried to google any story on that and couldn't find anything. And you say I'm revisionist? LOL (Even if.. I have a hard time believing in everything that comes out of Gillis's mouth as some do.)

Here's my sourced Hodgson response to his Dad interfering and himself asking for more playing time:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/cody-hodgson-still-dealing-with-canucks-rumours/article14909466/

“This isn’t Pee-Wee hockey where the dad can call up the coach and interfere with what’s going on,” Hodgson told The Province. “This is professional hockey and that sort of thing doesn’t happen. He never called the team. You just can’t do that. That’s been bothering me for a long time and I want to clear that up. I’m not sure where all of that got started, but my agent [Ritch Winter] handled the stuff with the team.”

And there was the matter of playing time: “I never once asked for more ice time when I was in Vancouver, even though the media asked me every day if I thought I should be playing more. I was just happy to be playing in the NHL when I was there at that stage of my career. When you guys in the media would ask me, I told them then that I hadn’t asked for more ice time. There’s no way I was saying one thing to them and then going in behind closed doors and doing something else. I wouldn’t ever do that. That just isn’t me. Some day I’ll talk about my time in Vancouver, but not right now.”

On not asking to be traded:

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/02/28/cody-hodgson-denies-he-asked-canucks-for-trade/

Cody Hodgson is adamant he had not asked for a trade from the Canucks and was surprised to leave the NHL team in a trade with Buffalo that reconfigured both teams on Monday.

Hodgson, 22 was swapped along with spare-part defenceman Alexander Sulzer to the Sabres near the NHL trade deadline for unproven power winger Zack Kassian, 21, and extra defenceman Marc-Andre Gragnani.

“I was as shocked as anyone,” Hodgson told The Province on Monday evening. “I didn’t see it coming. I really like the city and the fans and the guys are great. But I understand it’s a business and I’m moving on to a new opportunity.”

Interesting that Gillis never said a word about Hodgson until the Canucks were bounced in that first round and he was criticized for the move. I guess it comes down to who you believe...a decorated, ex-junior Captain, well respected by coaches and commentators...or....a seasoned lawyer who found himself under the spotlight after his SCF team the year before was out in 5 games for lack of a goal here or there.

haha I thought you were describing "Stormin" Norman Schwarzkopf.... wouldn't you say you've put CoHo on quite the pedestal here? get serious...

Regardless of how you paint the picture.... MG has more credibility than any young kid in CoHo's shoes. I highly doubt that any GM would trade a highly touted player so quickly unless they had reasons for it...

CoHo might have thought that what he said was reasonable and within his rights to do so as a "star" player, especially with a meddling father and agent egging him on and telling him to do so.... But, this is a professional sport and business and I would believe 100% in a professional seasoned lawyer who represents an Organization and has exceeded my expectations in improving this franchise. As well, MG is not a typical GM who makes decisions in haste or on a whim....he is a very calculated person and considers the benefits and repercussions of all decisions that he makes when it comes to his job. This is what makes him a great GM....he's improved this franchise in so many ways it's hard to name them all, directly AND indirectly.

Do I believe a young kid in the spotlight who has everyone close to him telling him he's undervalued and needs...nay...deserves to be the center of attention? Or do I believe a seasoned lawyer who I've seen improve this franchise in multiple facets and who's only concern seems to be the improvement of this Organization? A GM who has everything to lose with his other players (and future players) by making up lies about an individual playing for his Organization....or a kid who is upset because things didn't turn out the way he expected and is upset that his reputation and fathers reputation has been tainted? Oh...as for the input of others not related to him, I feel it's fairly easy for most people to abide to a picture of purity in front of acquaintances, people they respect or people who are in position to influence their future or their image.

You want to know what's really interesting about your quotes.... It seems like CoHo's lines were scripted by his lawyers as he was very careful with his words:

He's careful to say that his dad never "called" the team, but didn't say his dad never talked with the team... he never denied that his father brought this up in another form. He only says that he wanted to clear things up and it's been bothering him for a long time....the fact that his father "called" not that his father didn't speak to anyone. If he was being straight-up and there was absolutely no truth to this matter....I believe he would have been more clear, kinda like... "He never called, spoke, emailed or even mentioned anything, to anyone, about ice time....." Instead he was upset because people said his father "called"....nothing else. His words are too focused on the "call" and not that his father had nothing to do with meddling in some other way.

And than he mentions that his agent, "handled stuff with the team...." usually most agents are used as a voice to represent their clients. So his dad used his representative to voice his concerns regarding his son's ice time....what's the difference? He's still meddling...CoHo is also adamant that he never mentioned anything about requesting more ice time, but what did his representative say to the GM? he was also very clear to mention that he never personally mentioned anything to the team or organization....but failed to exclude his agent.

I find it odd that he is very clear on his words in regards to what he or his dad said and to whom....and he ends his sentence with "but, my agent (Ritch Winters) handled the stuff with the team". How come he slyly mentions his agent, but doesn't exclude his representative as another person who requested more ice time?

And why not talk about his time in Vancouver when he's on the subject....when does he want to bring it up? Maybe never because the truth might come to light...that the topic of ice time was brought up, just not through a phone call from his dad.