TOMapleLaughs Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Congrats on your 30,000th post anyways the if you think adding one or two players to our line up (unless they are crosby) turn us into a winning team look no further than the oilers. Coaching does matter.How, exactly, are the Oilers a comparable when their lineup is still pretty damn awful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzy Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Congrats on your 30,000th post anyways the if you think adding one or two players to our line up (unless they are crosby) turn us into a winning team look no further than the oilers. Coaching does matter. Yes but TOML is saying it's about maturity. You have just said it yourself, unless it's a Crosby you won't see an immediate impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Perhaps the Oilers' lineup was just as hyped-up as Eakins was this season, and people bought it. That being said, they still have a pretty young core. They have 5-6 years to build whatever they want to build. Prediction: It won't be the second coming of the Toews-era Blackhawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 How, exactly, are the Oilers a comparable when their lineup is still pretty damn awful? Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakapov and Eberle aren't awful the coaching made them awful. Just look at Calgary they are rebuilding but still playing good defense. Coaching makes a huge impact on how players perform, you can't deny it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Coaches definitely influence how the players perform, there is no way around that and there are MANY examples in the last decade of such occurences. Off the top of my head: LA getting Sutter at the right time, McLean turning the Senators around, Nolan and the Sabres, Lemaire and the Devils when they pulled a 180. Coaching matters. I love Torts (not Sullivan) as a coach but I am not thrilled about some of his decisions this year. I am also unsure exactly what is going on with our breakout. It seems that this is the same breakout that they had when AV was at the helm; forwards blow the zone and the dmen are forced to either dump it or make a hail mary pass which is intercepted more often than not. I HATE seeing a lack of puck support, especially against teams with strong forechecks and I despise even more the lack of recognition that our D-core had issues with this style of play previously and yet we are forcing them to do it again (more on Canuck leadership than Torts since he is new to the team but still, frustrating). I get he wants a quick transition but he just doesn't have the personnel for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakapov and Eberle aren't awful the coaching made them awful. Just look at Calgary they are rebuilding but still playing good defense. Coaching makes a huge impact on how players perform, you can't deny it. If you're looking at Edmonton's defensive woes, then perhaps start looking at their defensemen. Jeff Petry and Andrew ference is their shutdown pairing. Petry is slowing improving, so-so 2nd pairing upside kinda player and Ference is a 3rd pairing vet on the decline. Beyond that they have Schultz, a defensive non-factor, and a bunch of plugs. They have no decent defenders, really. So the problem is clearly not just Eakins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Coaches definitely influence how the players perform, there is no way around that and there are MANY examples in the last decade of such occurences. Off the top of my head: LA getting Sutter at the right time, McLean turning the Senators around, Nolan and the Sabres, Lemaire and the Devils when they pulled a 180. Coaching matters. I love Torts (not Sullivan) as a coach but I am not thrilled about some of his decisions this year. I am also unsure exactly what is going on with our breakout. It seems that this is the same breakout that they had when AV was at the helm; forwards blow the zone and the dmen are forced to either dump it or make a hail mary pass which is intercepted more often than not. I HATE seeing a lack of puck support, especially against teams with strong forechecks and I despise even more the lack of recognition that our D-core had issues with this style of play previously and yet we are forcing them to do it again (more on Canuck leadership than Torts since he is new to the team but still, frustrating). I get he wants a quick transition but he just doesn't have the personnel for it. It seems like a weird hybrid of AV's and a new messed up one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 If you're looking at Edmonton's defensive woes, then perhaps start looking at their defensemen. Jeff Petry and Andrew ference is their shutdown pairing. Petry is slowing improving, so-so 2nd pairing upside kinda player and Ference is a 3rd pairing vet on the decline. Beyond that they have Schultz, a defensive non-factor, and a bunch of plugs. They have no decent defenders, really. So the problem is clearly not just Eakins. talking about forwards playing defense not their d men. There are many examples of teams with bad okay defencemen playing good defence, in fact the team we play today just has suter and no else of significance. Yet they still play good D. Coaching Matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 If you're looking at Edmonton's defensive woes, then perhaps start looking at their defensemen. Jeff Petry and Andrew ference is their shutdown pairing. Petry is slowing improving, so-so 2nd pairing upside kinda player and Ference is a 3rd pairing vet on the decline. Beyond that they have Schultz, a defensive non-factor, and a bunch of plugs. They have no decent defenders, really. So the problem is clearly not just Eakins. No doubt about this, Edmonton's defence is dreadful. I don't know about Eakins either, seems to me he is perfect for Edmonton though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 The negative about Torts is he brought in a new mindset and system that is not easy for a veteran team to adjust to after having the same coach most of their careers. The shot blocking has got to be rethought as it injures all our stars. That being said, the rest is purely positive. He has turned Zack Kassian into a far better player in all areas of the ice. Tanev is better , Eddie Lack is thriving . He should stay here through the Canucks rebuild. I am convinced that he is a solid NHL coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 The one point i would like to bring up. Is Av was very determined to stick with his core and not give youth a real chance at cracking the roster. Al though I think Av is the better coach his short shortsightedness was his major flaw. Torts gets the most out of players and he is great at helping young players realize the process of becoming a professional. Kassian in my eyes has gotten better in this past season then he had in the previous two. As of right now I think Av is the better coach, but Torts is the coach we need and if Torts stays with our team I think in the end he will be the better coach in the long haul. Having the scrutiny of a major market watching your game really puts the pressure on you to find ways to improve all aspects of your game. Yes NY is a big market but not near as much pressure as there is in a major Canadian city. Torts was probably the right move. But we cant compare the old Av days with a young core to the transitioning young core that is coming in with Torts. They are 2 completely different scenarios. I give Torts props though for his honesty. Guys legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autistic1 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 You can't win with a player that gets 20+ minutes a game on the top line and gets only 40 points, and almost all of them secondary assists.You can't win when half your defensemen can't play defence and get beat 1 on 1 over half the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 The one point i would like to bring up. Is Av was very determined to stick with his core and not give youth a real chance at cracking the roster. Al though I think Av is the better coach his short shortsightedness was his major flaw. Torts gets the most out of players and he is great at helping young players realize the process of becoming a professional. Kassian in my eyes has gotten better in this past season then he had in the previous two. Agree with everything except that. Sedins, Burrows, Edler and hansen have been performing at much lower levels with torts. That was one of AV's strengths actually he could make a player look good if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 You can't win with a player that gets 20+ minutes a game on the top line and gets only 40 points, and almost all of them secondary assists. on top of that player would be nothing without santo or henrik who helped him in december and october. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Agree with everything except that. Sedins, Burrows, Edler and hansen have been performing at much lower levels with torts. That was one of AV's strengths actually he could make a player look good if need be. Thats actually a fair point I completely over looked. I believe part of that is due to the role changes with the Sedins doing penalty kills. Valid point though I retract that statement. He has helped some of our younger players really develop but has struggled with some of our veterans maintain their game. I honestly have no idea why Elder is doing so terrible. He played great at the Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 It's a results based business so it's hard to argue with AV being the better Canucks coach and the better of the 2 coaches this year. I just wish we could splice the 2 together and get a coach with the tactical and offensive nous of AV and the accountability and passion of Torts. Anybody like that out there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 That was one of AV's strengths actually he could make a player look good if need be.I think he's up to his old tricks again with Zuccarello. But the Rangers have had more health and depth than us all season long. Torts has been handicapped all season long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I think he's up to his old tricks again with Zuccarello. But the Rangers have had more health and depth than us all season long. Torts has been handicapped all season long. /Thread AV never had the amount of injuries to key players as we did. NYR also have more depth than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I am on the fence about Torts...Playing the Sedins for 20+ minutes a game earlier in the season cost us IMO..Maybe if he had rolled four lines in November/December ,we may have won a few more games in January?....Just speculating.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyville88 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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