Nikolaj Ehlers

[Absent Canuck]

detroit didnt have any canadian kids that put them over the top, im sure they had a canadian, but he wouldve been insignificant and they still wouldve won without him

Saying 'oh they had good ol canadian kids' is fascist and irrelevant. The NHL is a hotbed of mixture and has been for 20 years or more. No country has the market cornered on individual talent. Canada does have the MOST elite talent though

[TOMapleLaughs]

There are a couple of guys on here who continue to spin and use hyperbole to argue with people who support Ehlers. They are not being objective in any way.

Its like us saying virtanen's numbers are not mind blowing in any way , nor is his low hockey IQ an asset come draft time.

Or Ritchie will lumber around like a big fat ox and has no other skill that can translate at the NHL level other than lumbering around the ice. His totals were not mind blowing either for a guy that size in his draft year.

We could start arguing and spinning the negative all day about other prospects but we dont need to. Ehlers is an excellent draft pick on his own accord.

We dont require everyone else to feel that way.

The trolls do require that they shove their biased opinions down our throat. That is a big difference.

All the 'trolls' have been saying is that there are other prospects to consider. Ehlers isn't even a consensus number one.

Imagine if we were in a position to draft McDavid or Eichel next season? THAT may be worth a 1,000 post thread. But this thread = We're very bored.

[Absent Canuck]

the hawks are not a very big team, they have hossa and bickell, they are like the only big guys on that team, tows, kane, sharp, saad, shaw, kruger, and more

We did the stats on this on another thread. The hawks are 1/4 of an inch smaller and 1.2 pounds heavier than the canucks.

The bruins are 1/8th of an inch taller and 1.8 pounds heavier.

The Ducks are slightly smaller but a good 5 lbs heavier. The real difference is the Kings. They are the biggest team in the league.

[Piggy Bank]

-Jesus.... Ehlers would laugh his A$$ off if he saw all this fighting about him.

-Guys stop crying about who you want drafted, our scouts will pick who ever we get and you cannot change it.

-Does it really matter if we take Ritchie, Virtanen, or Ehlers???

-I bet we take none of ^ these guys and you all say "oh ya no i always vouched for Fleury or Nylander..."

-----Just shut up and email the Moosehead's directory.

[Absent Canuck]

-Jesus.... Ehlers would laugh his A$$ off if he saw all this fighting about him.

-Guys stop crying about who you want drafted, our scouts will pick who ever we get and you cannot change it.

-Does it really matter if we take Ritchie, Virtanen, or Ehlers???

-I bet we take none of ^ these guys and you all say "oh ya no i always vouched for Fleury or Nylander..."

-----Just shut up and email the Moosehead's directory.

Lol. I just talked to someone on the phone . I went a step further

We wont know until the combine but here is a guy who is also in touch with the Mooseheads and sees Ehlers on a regular basis.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1505805&page=37

He says he is 5ft 11 and 160 and Ehlers is slightly taller than he is and more muscular. Even from video you can see he is now taller than Drouin who is 'listed' at 5ft 11 but again, we need to let all this go until the combine.

Haters are gonna hate

[Smashian Kassian]

For this guy to be a worthwhile pick at 6 you have to be convinced he will be an elite scorer in the NHL, as in less than 25 goals a year is disappointing. If he's gonna be a ~20 goal top 6 guy, I'd rather take one of the big north american wingers. Most little guys that are impact players in NHL have junior numbers that are off the charts, like briere, ronning.

In his favor I will say he has better numbers than Giroux at the same age for what it's worth. He's approx the same size too, but the fact he plays with Drouin and is European count against him, Also I don't think he has Giroux's mean streak.

I don't really see what being European has to do with anything. And he doesn't really play with Drouin aside from the PP. People bring up Drouin to discredit Ehlers, like Drouin is spoonfeeding Ehlers tap-ins left right & center, truth is they probably both help each other. And both have the ability to elevate the lines they play on, (which is why they don't take a regular shift together?)

He's not as good as Drouin, but that comparison has been made as kind of a light version.

Also, Giroux played with a 19 year old David Krejci in his draft year and look at what he's done. To me the Drouin thing with Ehlers just seems like really bad reasoning that severely lacks context.

I actually don't care who people 'want' to be honest, just tired of seeing people troll with misinformation and hyperbole to support their views of who they want vs being objective.

Ya same, I would like to have a discussion on player, not have things constantly made up to discredit players, its really annoying.

If people have legitimate concerns I would love to hear them, but those haven't really been raised. I had a good discussion with Millerdraft about some of his concerns. And would like to with others aswell.

[cdgraham]

Just watched him play a lot. He definitely cheats up the ice often and is slow on the backcheck often. No he's not the first junior top-level prospect to do so, but it has been noted.

Not sure if plus minus is the best number to use to say otherwise.

he did have the best plus minus in all the qmjhl, possibly the chl, and dale tallon thinks highly of him and i respect his opinion more then most considering he built the friggin Blackhawks

["Bull" Horvat]

In my undergraduate degree I did some work with a guy who was involved with CFL combines, lots of NCAA football training, and off ice training for many hockey teams. When scouting football players at the combines it is well known that the most genetically influenced skill is flat out top speed. Everything else could be trained. They were never worried if a guy had poor endurance, or sub average strength because in just one off season these elements could be dramatically improved. Speed however is a different beast. A guy could spend a whole year working on speed training and barely improve his 40 or his 100. Speed is one of the first things they look for, even in the fat linemen. (PS I knew a guy who was 325 and ran a 4.4)

I know hockey is a different sport, but the physiological principle is the same. A high proportion of fast twitch muscle fibers from birth will equal speed. Slow players do not become fast players. They just don't. Henrik could train nothing but speed the entire off season and nobody would notice.

Now I know speed alone means little except backing up the defence. But if a guy has wheels and sick puck skills at full speed that's a pretty dangerous combo.

I have changed my tune. Canucks pick order should look like this.

1. Ekblad

2. Reinhart

3. Bennett

4. Dal Colle

5. Draisaitl

6. Ehlers

10. Virtanen

11. Ritchie

149. Nylander

3, 4, and 5 are a bit of a toss up for me. All have sick vision and to me are better play makers than Ehlers. Nylander.... Just no

Usual top 5 or Ehlers IMO.

nice write up

but basing on Bob Mackenzie's scenarios/personal proposals he suggested the Canucks should package their #6 and a dmen for Florida's #1 to draft Reinhart cause they need a C ...

I'm guessing that they're still looking for a top 6 C in the making so... Would be 1. Reinhart 2. Ekblad AS MUCH as I want a Team Canada caliber dmen not in the name of Dan Hamhuis (who I think is our best D on the team)

[Absent Canuck]

he did have the best plus minus in all the qmjhl, possibly the chl, and dale tallon thinks highly of him and i respect his opinion more then most considering he built the friggin Blackhawks

Again, why are you trying to argue with a guy who is so biased all he can do is look for any negative he can , spin it, make up stuff, ignore the parts that dont fit his narrative ?

He is quoting an NHL poll conducted 2 months ago. Back then all kinds of guys had Bennett going 1st overall -who is right now 1/2 an inch taller and 4 pounds heavier than Ehlers is now.

Haters going to hate. If you dont feed the trolls, then they give up and go elsewhere.

[Guest Dasein]

Giroux

2005-2006 69 GP, 39 goals, 64 assists, 103 pts

2006-2007 63 GP, 48 goals, 64 assists, 112 pts

5'11 172 CURRENTLY

Ehlers

2013-2014 63 GP, 49 goals, 55 assists, 104 pts

5'11 176 CURRENTLY (according to our friend above who called the Mooseheads)

[...]

and 31st time, OUR PROSPECT POOL HAS BIG GUYS FOR HIM TO PLAY WITH IF THAT'S YOUR ISSUE

again!!!this kid (whomever we draft) wont be ready for 3-4 years not step in now and solve our current issues

so therefore look at the size of our prospect pool and evaluate what its needs are not todays!!!!

geez

I actually don't care who people 'want' to be honest, just tired of seeing people troll with misinformation and hyperbole to support their views of who they want vs being objective.

its alright to say hey i've seen ritchie play and like him and would prefer the nucks draft him, that doesn't mean or logically follow that Ehlers is not an elite talent, it means you prefer the nucks build their team in a different manner than I, this is fine.

But so many here are arguing he's not talented, he's steve kariya, he's soft lol...really all they are doing is trolling

I agree that Ehlers is talented, but he's not 6th overall talented. Especially considering that we play in the West.

Firstly, I don't think comparing Giroux's stats to Ehlers' proves anything. Giroux wasn't even in the top 10 in scoring the season he scored 103 points in the QMJHL (2006) while this season (2014) Ehlers was 4th in league scoring with just 104 points. This disparity can be explained in two different ways:

1) that scoring was just as difficult in 2006 as 2014, but the talent level in the QMJHL in 2006 was higher than 2014. This would mean Giroux faced tougher competition to score roughly the same amount of points and thus his points should be valued more than Ehlers's.

OR

2) that the talent level in the QMJHL is about the same in 2006 and 2014, but scoring was a lot more difficult in 2014 than in 2006. This would mean Ehlers scored more goals despite it being tougher to score in the league and thus his points should be vahlued more than giroux's.

Not sure which is the case (or it could be a combination of both), but it goes to show you can't really compare Giroux's numbers from 2006 to Ehlers in 2014 then say they are equal in skill. IMO 8 years apart in a junior league means it may as well be a different league.

Another point is that this compares their draft years. A lot can happen since then, and nobody could have predicted Giroux to become what he is today, and for every Giroux, there's hundreds who range from serviceable NHLers to complete flops. In other words, even if Ehlers's points being identical to Giroux's supports your claim that Ehlers right now is the same as Giroux pre-draft day, there is a very slim chance Ehlers will become someone like Giroux - a top-5 scorer in this league (3rd this season).

Lastly, I don't think Giroux would be who he is if he played out in the West, which is where we play. In particular, the Pacific is dominated by big men down the middle - Getzlaf, Kopitar, Carter, Thornton, Kesler - heck even Henrik is 6'2". Giroux would not be scoring all those points if he had to go up against the players in the West IMO. In the West, Giroux would be (at best) a better version of Logan Couture, but nothing like his dominant self in the East. See the transition of Mike Richards from Philadelphia to LA. I think you can expect similar drop off and decrease in role for Giroux if he came to the West.

So I think Ehlers, for his sake, should be drafted by an Eastern conference team. I am not doubting his skills or size - he can play in the NHL and be a serviceable player. But you never know what will happen in the future, and fact is that we do need that #1 center with elite skill. It'll be a tough decision between Ehlers and Ritchie if the top 5 (Ekblad, Reinhart, Bennett, Draisaitl and Dal Colle) are gone.\

[youngdad]

Sorry but you are way off here. Physicall speed has nothing to with how well a person reads the game. Wayne was never considered fast but yet he was the greatest hockey player in world, Like you mentioned, both sedins are not that fast yet both took turns leading the NHL in points. By your judgement Grabner should be an NHL allstar. Physicall speed is an attribute, just like size, and shot power. Hockey IQ is what players really need to be born with. Some players just read the game better than others,

You're right. Hockey IQ is another thing that is very difficult to improve. And I agree that it is more valuable than speed alone. That is why I have Bennett Reinhart MDC and Draisaitl ranked higher than Ehlers. These guys have better vision and playmaking ability. But you have to admit that speed is not Ehlers' only asset. He can make plays, has wicked moves and has a great shot. A pure scorer.

I didn't make my point clear. I think some suggest that the big wingers like Ritchie will get faster and doubt whether Ehlers will get bulkier. The safe bet is the opposite. Ehlers will put on a minimum of 15 lbs in the next 2 years and Ritchie will never be faster than he is today.

[CanuckleHorse]

detroit didnt have any canadian kids that put them over the top, im sure they had a canadian, but he wouldve been insignificant and they still wouldve won without him

Helm, Maltby, Stuart, Cleary and an American Rafalski helped put them over the top if your talking about the 1 cup they won without Steve Yzerman and they had 3 small euros and the rest were 6 feet or taller.

[Absent Canuck]

I agree that Ehlers is talented, but he's not 6th overall talented. Especially considering that we play in the West.

Firstly, I don't think comparing Giroux's stats to Ehlers' proves anything. Giroux wasn't even in the top 10 in scoring the season he scored 103 points in the QMJHL (2006) while this season (2014) Ehlers was 4th in league scoring with just 104 points. This disparity can be explained in two different ways:

1) that scoring was just as difficult in 2006 as 2014, but the talent level in the QMJHL in 2006 was higher than 2014. This would mean Giroux faced tougher competition to score roughly the same amount of points and thus his points should be valued more than Ehlers's.

OR

2) that the talent level in the QMJHL is about the same in 2006 and 2014, but scoring was a lot more difficult in 2014 than in 2006. This would mean Ehlers scored more goals despite it being tougher to score in the league and thus his points should be vahlued more than giroux's.

Not sure which is the case (or it could be a combination of both), but it goes to show you can't really compare Giroux's numbers from 2006 to Ehlers in 2014 then say they are equal in skill. IMO 8 years apart in a junior league means it may as well be a different league.

Another point is that this compares their draft years. A lot can happen since then, and nobody could have predicted Giroux to become what he is today, and for every Giroux, there's hundreds who range from serviceable NHLers to complete flops. In other words, even if Ehlers's points being identical to Giroux's supports your claim that Ehlers right now is the same as Giroux pre-draft day, there is a very slim chance Ehlers will become someone like Giroux - a top-5 scorer in this league (3rd this season).

Lastly, I don't think Giroux would be who he is if he played out in the West, which is where we play. In particular, the Pacific is dominated by big men down the middle - Getzlaf, Kopitar, Carter, Thornton, Kesler - heck even Henrik is 6'2". Giroux would not be scoring all those points if he had to go up against the players in the West IMO. In the West, Giroux would be (at best) a better version of Logan Couture, but nothing like his dominant self in the East. See the transition of Mike Richards from Philadelphia to LA. I think you can expect similar drop off and decrease in role for Giroux if he came to the West.

So I think Ehlers, for his sake, should be drafted by an Eastern conference team. I am not doubting his skills or size - he can play in the NHL and be a serviceable player.

But you never know what will happen in the future, and fact is that we do need that #1 center with elite skill. It'll be a tough decision between Ehlers and Ritchie if the top 5 (Ekblad, Reinhart, Bennett, Draisaitl and Dal Colle) are taken as expected.

I appreciate your write up Dasien but none of it changes what Ehlers did and the elite company he was with. The guy is a special talent.

I do believe it will come down to Ehlers and Ritchie . Apparently Nylander is off the table for the Nucks drafting.

[NucksCup2015]

I agree that Ehlers is talented, but he's not 6th overall talented. Especially considering that we play in the West.

Firstly, I don't think comparing Giroux's stats to Ehlers' proves anything. Giroux wasn't even in the top 10 in scoring the season he scored 103 points in the QMJHL (2006) while this season (2014) Ehlers was 4th in league scoring with just 104 points. This disparity can be explained in two different ways:

1) that scoring was just as difficult in 2006 as 2014, but the talent level in the QMJHL in 2006 was higher than 2014. This would mean Giroux faced tougher competition to score roughly the same amount of points and thus his points should be valued more than Ehlers's.

OR

2) that the talent level in the QMJHL is about the same in 2006 and 2014, but scoring was a lot more difficult in 2014 than in 2006. This would mean Ehlers scored more goals despite it being tougher to score in the league and thus his points should be vahlued more than giroux's.

Not sure which is the case (or it could be a combination of both), but it goes to show you can't really compare Giroux's numbers from 2006 to Ehlers in 2014 then say they are equal in skill. IMO 8 years apart in a junior league means it may as well be a different league.

Another point is that this compares their draft years. A lot can happen since then, and nobody could have predicted Giroux to become what he is today, and for every Giroux, there's hundreds who range from serviceable NHLers to complete flops. In other words, even if Ehlers's points being identical to Giroux's supports your claim that Ehlers right now is the same as Giroux pre-draft day, there is a very slim chance Ehlers will become someone like Giroux - a top-5 scorer in this league (3rd this season).

Lastly, I don't think Giroux would be who he is if he played out in the West, which is where we play. In particular, the Pacific is dominated by big men down the middle - Getzlaf, Kopitar, Carter, Thornton, Kesler - heck even Henrik is 6'2". Giroux would not be scoring all those points if he had to go up against the players in the West IMO. In the West, Giroux would be (at best) a better version of Logan Couture, but nothing like his dominant self in the East. See the transition of Mike Richards from Philadelphia to LA. I think you can expect similar drop off and decrease in role for Giroux if he came to the West.

So I think Ehlers, for his sake, should be drafted by an Eastern conference team. I am not doubting his skills or size - he can play in the NHL and be a serviceable player. But you never know what will happen in the future, and fact is that we do need that #1 center with elite skill.

It'll be a tough decision between Ehlers and Ritchie if the top 5 (Ekblad, Reinhart, Bennett, Draisaitl and Dal Colle) are gone. If we don't take a risk on Ehlers, it could be a while before we have a chance at drafting a center with skill unless we tank next season as well.

Then again, I would question the necessity of such a player. Outside of the 2009 Penguins with Sidney Crosby, last time a team with a small skilled #1 center was Anaheim in 2007 with Andy Macdonald (and the Penguins had Malkin and Staal - 6'3" and 6'4" respectively). When's the last time you saw a guy like that lead a team to the Stanley Cup? Giroux doesn't have one yet. Sidney, with all his talent, only has one. I think we need more guys like Horvat, not Ehlers to win.

please re-read my post and try to comprehend what I am saying you are misinterpreting about 100% of it

[theminister]

I sense an approaching stroke.

Keep it up, boys.

Nylander and Ritchie over Ehlers!

[Guest Dasein]

I appreciate your write up Dasien but none of it changes what Ehlers did and the elite company he was with. The guy is a special talent.

I do believe it will come down to Ehlers and Ritchie . Apparently Nylander is off the table for the Nucks drafting.

If we don't take a risk on Ehlers, it could be a while before we have a chance at drafting a center with skill unless we tank next season as well. So there's that angle as well.

Then again, I would question the necessity of such a player: when is the last time you saw a center like Ehlers lead a team to the Stanley Cup?

Outside of Crosby & the 2009 Penguins (supported by Malkin and Staal - 6'3" and 6'4" respectively), the last time a team with a small but skilled #1 center was Anaheim in 2007 with Andy McDonald. Perhaps you can make an argument for Krejci (6'0" 188lbs) if Ehlers grows.

I think a lot of it depends on Ehlers's defensive play and his physicality. If he can play defense and somewhat physically like Krejci, I think Ehlers might be worth the pick over Ritchie.

[theminister]

You're right. Hockey IQ is another thing that is very difficult to improve. And I agree that it is more valuable than speed alone. That is why I have Bennett Reinhart MDC and Draisaitl ranked higher than Ehlers. These guys have better vision and playmaking ability. But you have to admit that speed is not Ehlers' only asset. He can make plays, has wicked moves and has a great shot. A pure scorer.

I didn't make my point clear. I think some suggest that the big wingers like Ritchie will get faster and doubt whether Ehlers will get bulkier. The safe bet is the opposite. Ehlers will put on a minimum of 15 lbs in the next 2 years and Ritchie will never be faster than he is today.

I'd disagree to the point that Ritchie may actually get faster as he sheds more bulk for lean muscle mass.

Skating is also a very different animal when it comes to mechanics than running. Overall though, I understand your point.

Skating after your draft year is seldom a huge gain. Size can be.

[CanuckleHorse]

the hawks are not a very big team, they have hossa and bickell, they are like the only big guys on that team, tows, kane, sharp, saad, shaw, kruger, and more

Toews 6-2 208 Sharp 6-1 200 Saad 6-1 200 Kieth 6-1 200 Seabrook 6-3 221

[Smashian Kassian]

he did have the best plus minus in all the qmjhl, possibly the chl, and dale tallon thinks highly of him and i respect his opinion more then most considering he built the friggin Blackhawks

Good point. Lol.

and for every Giroux, there's hundreds who range from serviceable NHLers to complete flops.

Actually the only other QMJHL players to score 100 points in their draft year since Crosby were: Brassard, Drouin, Huberdeau, & Giroux.

I don't buy the West/East thing, how is it the West is so tough, yet the Bruins are regarded the baddest team in the league, and if they are how come the skill Hawks beat them last year?

If we don't take a risk on Ehlers, it could be a while before we have a chance at drafting a center with skill unless we tank next season as well. So there's that angle as well.

Then again, I would question the necessity of such a player: when is the last time you saw a center like Ehlers lead a team to the Stanley Cup?

Ehlers is a winger not a center.

[theminister]

Good point. Lol.

Actually the only other QMJHL players to score 100 points in their draft year since Crosby were: Brassard, Drouin, Huberdeau, & Giroux.

I don't buy the West/East thing, how is it the West is so tough, yet the Bruins are regarded the baddest team in the league, and if they are how come the skill Hawks beat them last year?

Ehlers is a winger not a center.

But Nylnader is.