[Poll/ Discussion] Nylander vs. Ehlers; only 2 options for Canucks at #6

[JeremyCuddles]

Ok so you skipped over being trampled in the first round of 2012 and 2013 and being uncompetitive in our division this year. In your mind what is the reason the Canucks are no longer among the best 7-8 teams in the western conference?

Cause we suck. Can't hold leads can't score goals. Defence was so bad this year we scored a couple on ourselves. I bet we had more own goals this year then PP goals. Need some people who can score and defenders who know which net is ours. Or a coach that tells them "hey see that goalie with the same jersey as yours? Yeah, don't score on him".

[elvis15]

Sorry dude come to grips that we have a soft team and have for a few years. What we need is is big aggressive players on lines 2-4 that have enough skill to play regular shifts. A stiff like Sestito on the 4th line doesn't cut it in today's NHL. The teams that are winning have enough skill and size to roll 4 lines and play any style.

Some of you homers need to recognize our Canucks are a few years away from competing with the top teams in the western conference. We have an aging soft slowing team full of big salaries and NTCs.

*sigh*

I guess we'll just run down to the big skilled guy store and find a guy that can score at the same level with some of the other top players in the league. Never mind that some of those top players are actually smaller, skilled guys, but whatever.

Ok so you skipped over being trampled in the first round of 2012 and 2013 and being uncompetitive in our division this year. In your mind what is the reason the Canucks are no longer among the best 7-8 teams in the western conference?

Nope, didn't skip anything. How had our offence been during those first rounds and against our division this year? Did our top offensive players - you know, the ones that are 6'2" or whatever - have really great offensive stats in those games that we lost? How many goals did we score in the finals in 2011?

Whatever excuse you want to trot out (and sorry to tell you size and grit is part of it) the fact is the Canucks record against the Kings, Ducks and Sharks this year was truly pathetic. We are no longer on the same plain as those teams and need to rebuild this team. Some of you need to stop living in 2011 and grasp reality.

So that game this year where we took a physical stand and basically beat up the Kings, remind me, did we win or lose that game?

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

Cause we suck. Can't hold leads can't score goals. Defence was so bad this year we scored a couple on ourselves. I bet we had more own goals this year then PP goals. Need some people who can score and defenders who know which net is ours. Or a coach that tells them "hey see that goalie with the same jersey as yours? Yeah, don't score on him".

Our own goals last year was so typical of our luck for the last 20 years or so,since the Messier fiasco.

There was a 2 game stretch where our best D Hammer had 3 goals go off him. Edler had a ton of own goals, even more than usual.

Beiksa had lots and even Tanev had one.

Poor Eddie, trying to keep a smile on that face with all the crap going on in front of him.

Tortz was a circus, we knew it would be, hell he probably knew it would be...

Nowhere but up from here, even if we dive next year and have to draft in the top 2...oh darn Eichel or McDavid.

Nowhere but up.

[Kryten]

There are some misconceptions out there, and while I am a definite fan of smashmouth hockey, I agree with Elvis on this issue. Size should always take a backseat to elite skill, and in this case, Ehlers and Nylander have ELITE skill. Their hockey skill, IQ, and speed, trumps our dreams to get bigger. You can also tell that people haven't watched Ehler's play as he is gritty and strong on his skates and has thrown some massive hits. Once this kid bulks up, he will be a monster to play against (people forget this was his first season in the CHL; the others in this draft class have been there for an extra year or two).

Our #36 overall and subsequent picks thereafter can be used to draft larger/grittier players but our first overall has to be used to get the best player possible. We have some pretty tough forwards drafted anyways, we could use some bigger and tougher D to compliment the offensive-minded guys we currently have in the system (there are some beauties available in the middle rounds: Lernout, Rehill etc).

We can draft Ehlers or Nylander and still load up with behemoths to battle the California teams, although those teams won't be the same by the time these players become NHL regulars anyways.

[Zoolander]

*sigh*

So that game this year where we took a physical stand and basically beat up the Kings, remind me, did we win or lose that game?

I could be wrong...but didn't we lose?

[Goal:thecup]

If Nylander and Ehlers are so good, so good it does not matter that they are wisps, why are they not ranked higher than Reinhart or Bennett? Why are they seldom ranked in the top 5?

If we could get Reinhart, then we would pass on Draisaitl, Ritchie, perhaps even Ekblad. Why? Because he is probably good enough to pass on a potential top 6 power forward or big D.

The reason you have to use a pick like 6th on a prospect like Ritchie is that he has the complete package; you don't get a shot at a prospect like that very often.

The whole size and weight thing has been beaten to death here. The point is that a good skating, skilled prospect with Ritchie's size and weight, strength and toughness is difficult to acquire. The draft is about the cheapest way to get this kind of prospect. If you wait until they are proven, it is going to cost you.

When you draft a player like Nylander or Ehlers, they have to become top 6 players, even 1st line players, because if they work out like Schroeder, you can't even get anything in a trade for them. Schroeder has to show or go this year and probably has to perform very well just so we can get anything worthwhile for him. What a waste of time and effort.

They are too small to be effective right away, so we will have to wait awhile to see if they can handle the big league. So expect further delay as we wait and wonder if they will ever be good enough to be one of the 2 or 3 lightweights that we can carry.

The future is big. Didn't any of you watch the SCF? How many times did you see (one of the most effective small guys ever) St Louis pick himself up and shake off the snow? He was squashed. Deny it all you want. Maybe you can have MSL on your team, maybe even he and Kariya, but you better not have any more than them, at least not in the future (and the draft is all about the future).

Sure N & E are getting taller and heavier with every post, how much of this is wishful typing? They will never be considered anything but wispy. So they have to be exceptionally good to stay on the team.

Whatever term we want to settle on (because you N&E-ers cannot seem to understand the difference between a tough player and a soft player), say it is "soft", but I know you will argue with that too, how about "not-overly-physical" (nop?), the Canucks already have a number of nops. Who has to go to make room for prospects like N & E? Hank, Dank, Burr, Hansen, Santo, Richardson, Schroeder, Tanev, Weber all play nop already.

The only scouting team that matters is the Canucks scouting team. If they decide Nylander (or less likely imo Ehlers) is worth our pick at 6th, then that's great! It means they really do have enough potential to overcome all the reasons to draft a top-end power forward prospect like Ritchie.

[canucks155]

If Nylander and Ehlers are so good, so good it does not matter that they are wisps, why are they not ranked higher than Reinhart or Bennett? Why are they seldom ranked in the top 5?

If we could get Reinhart, then we would pass on Draisaitl, Ritchie, perhaps even Ekblad. Why? Because he is probably good enough to pass on a potential top 6 power forward or big D.

The reason you have to use a pick like 6th on a prospect like Ritchie is that he has the complete package; you don't get a shot at a prospect like that very often.

The whole size and weight thing has been beaten to death here. The point is that a good skating, skilled prospect with Ritchie's size and weight, strength and toughness is difficult to acquire. The draft is about the cheapest way to get this kind of prospect. If you wait until they are proven, it is going to cost you.

When you draft a player like Nylander or Ehlers, they have to become top 6 players, even 1st line players, because if they work out like Schroeder, you can't even get anything in a trade for them. Schroeder has to show or go this year and probably has to perform very well just so we can get anything worthwhile for him. What a waste of time and effort.

They are too small to be effective right away, so we will have to wait awhile to see if they can handle the big league. So expect further delay as we wait and wonder if they will ever be good enough to be one of the 2 or 3 lightweights that we can carry.

The future is big. Didn't any of you watch the SCF? How many times did you see (one of the most effective small guys ever) St Louis pick himself up and shake off the snow? He was squashed. Deny it all you want. Maybe you can have MSL on your team, maybe even he and Kariya, but you better not have any more than them, at least not in the future (and the draft is all about the future).

Sure N & E are getting taller and heavier with every post, how much of this is wishful typing? They will never be considered anything but wispy. So they have to be exceptionally good to stay on the team.

Whatever term we want to settle on (because you N&E-ers cannot seem to understand the difference between a tough player and a soft player), say it is "soft", but I know you will argue with that too, how about "not-overly-physical" (nop?), the Canucks already have a number of nops. Who has to go to make room for prospects like N & E? Hank, Dank, Burr, Hansen, Santo, Richardson, Schroeder, Tanev, Weber all play nop already.

The only scouting team that matters is the Canucks scouting team. If they decide Nylander (or less likely imo Ehlers) is worth our pick at 6th, then that's great! It means they really do have enough potential to overcome all the reasons to draft a top-end power forward prospect like Ritchie.

1. Because Bennett and Reinhart are better than them? Reinhart and Bennett bring intangibles to the table (winning, leadership, compete) and both are more skilled them "N & E". They're also bigger and are Canadian so they get more coverage in Canadian media.

2. What? Didn't understand a word...

3. You don't HAVE to use the pick on any particular player. You pick the BPA, not somebody who is big. If the BPA happens to be big, then great, if not draft the best. There have been a lot of big players considered to be the "complete package" who have never played in the NHL.

4. Really? He isn't more fast or skilled than Ehlers or Nylander. "N & E" are on a whole different level when it comes to offensive skill.

5. Schroeder is 5'9, 180Ibs and was drafted 22nd OVR. He doesn't even have half the offensive skill Ehlers and Nylander have. All Schroeder has is speed, and having only speed can only get u so far.

6. I'd rather wait 2-3 years for a Patrick Kane than no time for a bust.

7. MSL won the art ross last year standing at a towering 5'8...

8. It isn't uncommon to see small prospects bulk up. I'd rather have Nylander and Ehlers try to bulk up, rather than have Ritchie try to lose weight.

9. Ehlers isn't soft by any stretch of imagination. He's 6'0 smart one and he goes out there without any fear. He goes to the front of the net and the dirty areas. You are an idiot. Who is going to make room for Rtichie then? This is such a stupid argument. We draft for the FUTURE, not right now. Burr, Hansen, Ritchardson not playing physical? Are u out of your mind? They may not hit ppl thru the boards but they don't play a skilled game...

The idiocy is real...

[Sedintwinpowersactivate]

I like Ehlers over Nylander. I think their skill levels are very similar, but Ehlers shows the battle needed to make it in the NHL.

[mejohnathan]

the canucks should select johnathan lennox...me!

[canucks155]

the canucks should select johnathan lennox...me!

If Gillis was still here, you might have been drafted... lol

[messier's_elbow]

If Gillis was still here, you might have been drafted... lol

Gillis drafting wasnt that bad. His problem was trading both goalies and his arrogance.

[JeremyCuddles]

Gillis drafting wasnt that bad. His problem was trading both goalies and his arrogance.

His drafting last year wasn 't bad*

[canucks155]

Gillis drafting wasnt that bad. His problem was trading both goalies and his arrogance.

Gillis was w/ the team for a long time, and NONE of the players he drafted played a full season last year. The guys who played more than 10 games were: Jensen, Schroeder (likely gone) and Corrado. Not too impressive.

His neck beard didn't help either...

[canucks155]

His drafting last year wasn 't bad*

Getting Shinkaruk that late was a steal, but I'm not sold on Horvat just yet.

[elvis15]

I could be wrong...but didn't we lose?

Winner winner, chicken dinner. I guess dominating them physically didn't help us win...

Gillis was w/ the team for a long time, and NONE of the players he drafted played a full season last year. The guys who played more than 10 games were: Jensen, Schroeder (likely gone) and Corrado. Not too impressive.

His neck beard didn't help either...

Uh, Schroeder was with the team all year. Just because he was injured isn't Gillis' fault. Then there's Hodgson, who had played with the team regularly and is now replaced by another pick from the same draft class in Kassian. You can't just ignore facts because you want to.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Gillis was w/ the team for a long time, and NONE of the players he drafted played a full season last year. The guys who played more than 10 games were: Jensen, Schroeder (likely gone) and Corrado. Not too impressive.

His neck beard didn't help either...

Hodgson has put up over a .65ppg pace in the nhl the last two years. Don't want to count him?

Also doesn't help when you team is winning PT's and picking in the bottom 5 each round.

Tanev, Lack were great pick ups that were free and needed since we've traded away 2nd round picks.

Basically out of 5 years, Schroeder is the only iffy one but I feel he's got a lot more to show once he gets some opportunity.

[canucks155]

Uh, Schroeder was with the team all year. Just because he was injured isn't Gillis' fault. Then there's Hodgson, who had played with the team regularly and is now replaced by another pick from the same draft class in Kassian. You can't just ignore facts because you want to.

Yeah, he was WITH the team, but he only played 25 games. Sure, it's not Gillis' fault he was injured, but drafting a 5'8 player w/ no offensive upside other than speed in the 1st round is an idiotic move.

I said the players he DRAFTED. Don't bring up Gillis and trades w/ me. Horrible at trades...

I'm not ignoring the facts. The guy I was responding to was talking solely about his drafting. Not trades, not signings, just drafting.

[canucks155]

Hodgson has put up over a .65ppg pace in the nhl the last two years. Don't want to count him?

Also doesn't help when you team is winning PT's and picking in the bottom 5 each round.

Tanev, Lack were great pick ups that were free and needed since we've traded away 2nd round picks.

Basically out of 5 years, Schroeder is the only iffy one but I feel he's got a lot more to show once he gets some opportunity.

Considering he's playing for the Sabres now, no.

True. But LA got help w/ Pearson and Toffoli and the Kings been good for a while.

Those guys are signings. I was talking about drafting. He made some decent singings, but some truely awful ones too (Garrison)

I don't even think Schroeder gets a deal from the Canucks this summer.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Yeah, he was WITH the team, but he only played 25 games. Sure, it's not Gillis' fault he was injured, but drafting a 5'8 player w/ no offensive upside other than speed in the 1st round is an idiotic move.

I said the players he DRAFTED. Don't bring up Gillis and trades w/ me. Horrible at trades...

I'm not ignoring the facts. The guy I was responding to was talking solely about his drafting. Not trades, not signings, just drafting.

Cody Hodgson played a full season last year. or did you miss that? Your original statement was an I quote

"Gillis was w/ the team for a long time, and NONE of the players he drafted played a full season last year"

Who cares that it was with BUF he still played a full season

Something that also is a big help to this team is getting our own AHL team. We can now properly develop our picks and we will start to see rewards of that but it doesn't happen over night. Gillis did fine with drafting. He didn't hit a home run with each pick but zero NHL gm's do. Gaunce, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Cassels, Jensen all at this point look like solid picks and nothing we should be upset about. CHI had 6 years with top 10 picks and only 2 amounted to anything.

[bluesman60]

I would still draft one of Virtanen, Fluery (who I really like) or Perlini. They are all big, play good defense, can skate and score. Virtanen is expected to make a full recovery from surgery so that is not the issue.

No more smallish players, especially ones who need to work on defense. We need players that are closer to earning a spot. However, if I had to choose between the two, I would take Nylander.