Elliot Friedman 30 Thoughts: Canucks ha have made offer for 1st overall pick

[peaches5]

Buffalo Sabres assistant general manager Kevin Devine knows nothing is guaranteed, even with a multitude of high draft picks past and present.

"We're excited about our prospects, but at the same time, just because we get all these picks doesn't mean it's not going to be a challenge," Devine said. "We've seen other teams have early picks for a long time and struggle, so nothing is guaranteed when you go down this route.

"It's just something you hope turns out well and you can surround the younger players with guys who can support them, develop them the right way, and hopefully it all works out in the end."

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The Sabres made 11 selections at the 2013 NHL Draft, including two defensemen in the first round, Rasmus Ristolainen at No. 8 andNikita Zadorov at No. 16.

The Sabres have the No. 2 pick at the 2014 draft and have three first-round picks in the bank for next year: their pick, plus selections from the New York Islanders via the Thomas Vanek trade and St. Louis Blues from theRyan Miller trade.

Buffalo, which finished with the fewest points in the League in 2013-14, could have had the No. 1 pick this year but the balls at the NHL Draft Lottery didn't bounce their way. Instead the Florida Panthers won the lottery and the right to pick first at the when the first round of the draft is held June 27 (7 p.m. ET, NBCSN, TSN) at Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia.

"I was a little upset after first hearing the news, but there really isn't one guy … I think everybody has a different list and there's not one guy that's probably outstanding on everyone's list," Devine said. "It's not aSidney Crosby, John Tavares or Steven Stamkos type of year, so while I'm a little disappointed we didn't get the top pick I believe we're still going to get a good player."

While Devine wouldn't share the organization's draft plan for obvious reasons, he did acknowledge he considers Aaron Ekblad of the Barrie Colts in the Ontario Hockey League the best defenseman available in the this year's draft.

"There is a gap between Aaron and every other defender at that point," Devine said. "It's not a real strong year for defensemen. Last year was and we had a couple years ago [2012] with [Mathew] Dumba and [Jacob] Trouba. This year it's more a forward draft."

If the Panthers decide to keep the No. 1 pick and draft Ekblad, the Sabres will have several top-end point-producers to choose from, including Kingston Frontenacs center Samuel Bennett, Kootenay Ice center Sam Reinhart, Prince Albert Raiders center Leon Draisaitl and Oshawa Generals left wingMichael Dal Colle among NHL Central Scouting's top-rated North American skaters.

Bennett was named the top prospect in the Canadian Hockey League, while Reinhart and Draisaitl were named First Team All-Stars in the Eastern Conference of the Western Hockey League. Ekblad was named the defenseman of the year in the Ontario Hockey League and Dal Colle was named an OHL Second-Team All-Star.

Bennett was ninth in the OHL with 91 points in 57 games. He led his team in points, goals (36), assists (55), plus/minus rating (plus-34) and power-play goals (10). He had a league-best 25-game scoring streak, during he had 17 goals and 46 points.

The 6-foot, 178-pound forward is No. 1 on Central Scouting's final ranking of North American skaters for the draft.

"He plays the kind of game you think cannot be sustained for a whole season because it's a high-energy game and compete game at all ends of the ice," Central Scouting's David Gregory said. "He ends up playing that game for the whole year and has led his team. He just never stops. And put that with the skill package he has and how well he thinks the game, he's pretty much a top-notch player."

Devine likes that top-five group of players but doesn't view them potential saviors.

"We're not going to force kids into a situation where they feel pressure to be the guy to turn the franchise around," Devine said. "We're going to bring them around slowly until we believe they are ready to play and ready to take on that challenge of what might be a difficult one or two years. We're trying to grow [all our young] prospects together to where they can have some success and grow together. But that won't come at the expense of rushing any of these kids unless they're ready."

Sabres general manager Tim Murray joined Devine and several other members of the scouting team at the NHL Scouting Combine in Toronto last month. Murray recently said he'd like to add another first-round pick this year if possible.

"I can't imagine I would trade the second overall pick," Murray told ESPN.com. "I'd like to get a couple of more first-round picks and I have those three second-rounders [in 2014]. I certainly know you can't trade a second for a first, but you might take some money back in a deal to do that and I do have to get to the [cap] floor. There are different ways to get to the floor so I'm exploring all that."

The Sabres will have three picks in the second round for the second consecutive season, joining the Dallas Stars (2002-04) and New Jersey Devils (2000-01) as the third team in the last 15 drafts to have three or more picks in the first or second round in consecutive drafts.

It remains to be seen if Murray can acquire a second first-round pick, but the organization conducted interviews with 72 players at the Combine, so there are more than just a handful of prospects the organization could be interested in selecting.

"There are some good players at the top, but there's no Crosby or Tavares," Devine said. "Maybe the draft tapers off a little bit after the top six or seven. The guys in the five to 20 range are probably as strong as we've seen in that range in the past, but there's no one player this year that really jumps out as the No. 1 guy."

---

Reading that I am saying that Buffalo is going to take Bennett 2nd overall.

[baumerman77]

6th, Shinkaruk and a non-roster prospect for the first overall? I would do that any day.

[DeNiro]

6th, Shinkaruk and a non-roster prospect for the first overall? I would do that any day.

Most sane people would.

This thread highlights why other fans come in here and laugh at Canucks fans.

People overrate our prospects big time. Shinkaruk and the 6th is apparently too much for a number 1 pick according to some people. I think most teams would do that deal in a heartbeat. And if Tallon is willing to, the Canucks should take it and run.

[peaches5]

Most sane people would.

This thread highlights why other fans come in here and laugh at Canucks fans.

People overrate our prospects big time. Shinkaruk and the 6th is apparently too much for a number 1 pick according to some people. I think most teams would do that deal in a heartbeat. And if Tallon is willing to, the Canucks should take it and run.

Tallon is no fool if Reinhart was as much as a guarantee as you seem to think the cost of that first overall pick would be much higher. the top 8 picks excluding the first overall Ekblad are all pretty close to one another and not only that but Ehlers who has virtually the exact same stats as Reinhart is going to be available at 6th overall so why would you risk anything when you can just take Ehlers?

Ehlers costs you nothing and has just as much of a shot at being an 80 point first liner as Reinhart.

[Gaudette Celly]

Mackinnon>>>Reinhart/Ekblad...

...Wait until Nylanders first season in the NHL, then you can make a comparison. Premature evaluation, just like with Hodsgon and Kassian.

What about Reinhart/Ekblad's first season? Trying to have it both ways, again?

Lol. Typical CDC.

Thanks for contributing

[cripplereh]

I fully agree with you, unless it is trimming down some players who have passed there prime and our 6th pick I wouldnt do it at any cost!People seem to think a draft that has top 7 players that two are way above the rest and this draft it is clear that is not the case!

[rkoshack]

LOL at anyone including Hansen in their proposal. No one wants that.

[Gaudette Celly]

I think the only way I'd be ok with trading Shinkaruk is if we're packaging him for Evander Kane.

To Vancouver: Emerson Etem, 10th & 24th overall

To Anaheim: Ryan Kesler

then for Kane:

To Vancouver: Evander Kane

To Winnipeg: Hunter Shinkaruk, Emerson Etem, 2014 10th overall

then for the 1st:

To Vancouver: 2014 1st overall

To Florida: Chris Tanev, 2014 6th & 24th overall

We walk out of the draft with Kane and Reinhart. Pretty reasonable IMO but that's my opinion.

Canucks gain Kane and Reinhart.

Canucks lose Kesler, Shinkaruk, Tanev, 6th overall.

More like we limp out of the draft.

[Guest Dasein]

If Reinhart are such great prospects, why is Tallon looking to move back as far as pick #8??

probably because he knows there is more value if you don't have the first pick this. Tallon knows how to evaluate talent. He drafted Kane and Toews and many other current Blackhawks.

Or maybe because he has enough potential franchise players in Huberdeau, Barkov, Bjugstad, Gudbranson and Kulikov, and can afford to move down to get more supporting pieces to help his core players.

[Smashian Kassian]

I am still not getting why Monahan and Reinhart are considerably different from Lindholm... It makes zero sense. Let's take RNH and Huberdeau - RNH is April and Huberdeau is June. So teams should have taken that into consideration when they drafted back in 2012?

Again, Lindholm and Reinhart are not easy to compare because he played in the SEL. However, I am not sure if Lindholm rivals Reinhart because based on NHL productions, Monahan fares better than Lindholm, and WHL productions imply Reinhart is better than Monahan, which you didn't dispute.

So Reinhart would be #5 in last year's draft at the least - but I'd argue he could have been #2. Florida picked Barkov based on organizational need for a center, and again, I am not sure if Barkov is better than Reinhart due to him being from Europe. Barkov is a September-born player though, so almost a full year behind the late-birthdays, so it would definitely be considered towards Barkov's favour. Since they're only a month apart, what Barkov produces in the upcoming season and what Reinhart (if he makes it) does should give us an idea of who really is better.

At any rate, let's just say Reinhart is #5.

I would still make the trade, yes. I mean, we're talking about a chance to set up a 1-2-3 of Reinhart-Horvat-Gaunce/Cassels down the middle for a decade+. If it costs Tanev, Shinkaruk and Ehlers/MDC, it's still very worth it.

Does it deplete our depth? Yes. Is it temporary or permanent? Temporary.

Keep in mind we are trading Ryan Kesler for prospects and picks. The pick constantly mentioned is Anaheim's #10 this year. The prospect constantly mentioned is Emerson Etem - a top 6 winger (who is above PPG in the AHL, by the way - he is ready to go NOW). We can absorb some of the damage left by trying to get a high-quality prospect by giving up quantity because we're trying Kesler (Even if it isn't the Anaheim package, you get the idea - we can ask for what we need to fill the void).

And we can continue to build through the upcoming drafts to support Reinhart, Horvat and company. Remember the way the 2011 team was built - Henrik and Kesler down the middle + one elite winger in Daniel - surrounded by wingers via drafts following theirs, UFA signings or trades. Except this time around, we would have Reinhart, Horvat and Gaunce/Cassels, and Jensen and Kassian on wing. That's a better start already than what we had when we were building up to the team that came so close in 2011.

That's why I feel perfectly fine with giving up that proposed package for Reinhart - because Reinhart really sets us up for the future in a way that none of the players in the package nor in our remaining current system can.

Cause Monohan & Reinhart were actually close to being drafted the year prior, oh well its all irrelevant anyways with your other points.

I'm not disputing that having Reinhart would be nice, but it at a price, a 1-2-3 of Reinhart/Horvat then Gaunce/Cassels would be great, but at the same time, there is another draft next year with much better talent available where we could get a high pick, and to add to that, Nylander is going to be available at our pick, he could end up a #1C, or possibly even Draisaitl.

There are other avenues to get a center, its not like we are going to be a cup contender over night.

The way I see it, we are a team lacking young talent everywhere in our lineup, we are very good down the middle (aside from lacking highend potential/star power, which we lack everywhere in our pool), we have a few Dmen and a few wingers.

Overall we need high end guys, and I think we need as many good prospects as we can get, cause aside from down the middle there isn't alot of depth in our system.

I see Tanev as a huge part of team going into the future, aswell Shinkaruk, and then you factor in the possibility of getting someone like Nylander/MDC/Draisaitl/Ehlers, all who could be big time offensive players.

If the price is right I would do it, like Tanev + 6th or Shinkaruk + 6th (though I'm not keen on dealing Shinkaruk as we lack offensive talent in our prospect pool & on our roster) I would do it, if its both & the pick, no thats too big a price.

I would wait and try to make a deal with ANA for Kesler, then use the assets there to make a deal.

I just don't think this is our only hope to get a center with possible 1st line potential. And lets be honest, its not like Reinhart is a franchise player either, if he was, I would be all over it, but he's not a franchise level player, who knows he might top out as a great #2, but not a guy you would want as your #1C on a long term contender, that's part of the risk you would be taking, and honestly, I think we could get a player like that elsewhere without giving up Tanev, Shinkaruk & the 6th pick.

[Gaudette Celly]

"Kesler > Reinhart"

LOL okay there. Now I know you aren't one to be reasoned with on this board. Good day.

Oh, so Ryan Kesler is not even worth just the #1 pick in a weak draft? This idol worship of the #1 pick is seriously messed up stuff.

I have never understood the hype over prospects. People claim Kelser isn't worth Mantha 1-1....

Yet Shinkaruk needs to be added with the 6th overall and a young stud D man just to even start the talks for the 1st overall in a shallow draft...

Somehow OUR prospects are frigging worthless, yet every other teams prospects are future hall of fame players.

I have never in my 33 years seen such blatant stupidity as I have seen on this forum in regards to this.

Proven players that can help win games and cups NOW are not worth picks or prospects that have never even played a pre season game. This is where people are at in regards to valuing our prospects as opposed to other teams'

And I get ripped on for stating our top prospects should be untouchable....yet our top prospects aren't worth squat in comparison to another teams mid range prospects.

The absolute hypocrisy is baffling.

Indeed. Thankfully the Canucks are not a democracy run by CDC. We'd have a team that couldn't compete in the AHL yet have silos full of magic beans.

[DeNiro]

Tallon is no fool if Reinhart was as much as a guarantee as you seem to think the cost of that first overall pick would be much higher. the top 8 picks excluding the first overall Ekblad are all pretty close to one another and not only that but Ehlers who has virtually the exact same stats as Reinhart is going to be available at 6th overall so why would you risk anything when you can just take Ehlers?

Ehlers costs you nothing and has just as much of a shot at being an 80 point first liner as Reinhart.

We don't even know the cost of the first overall, so how do we know? For all we know he laughed at Vancouver's proposal.

Why can't people look beyond stats? I don't understand this. Do you really think that scouts just base everything on stats?

Ehlers having close to the same stats as Reinhart means absolutely nothing. Zilch. Two different players, two different leagues, two different teams, and two different roles on those teams.

Ehlers certainly doesn't have the same shot as Reinhart. If he did he would be in the discussion for the top two picks. Clearly scouts have analyzed weaknesses in his game. Which is why he'll likely drop a bit.

[DeNiro]

What about Reinhart/Ekblad's first season? Trying to have it both ways, again?

Who am I comparing? Reinhart and Ekblad? Your arguments don't make sense.

Based on history Reinhart has a much higher chance of success. That's a fact.

[cripplereh]

well there are good points to both sides, just me I think with no real number 1 top pick , trying to get it for a player that might be better then the 6th pick to me means nothing.Till players get to the ahl or nhl they are all long shots to be stars unless they stand out by far which again in this draft there is not that one guy! I do not want us giving up more then we get back, but saying that if we do and if it works out then I am wrong and am cool with that.

[Gaudette Celly]

Because Florida doesn't need centers.

And if McDavid were in the draft, he'd still be moving down?

If he's willing to trade it, he also doesn't believe Ekblad is a slam dunk.

Nor Bennett nor Reinhart. Yet CDC is ready to mortgage the farm for him.

[DeNiro]

And if McDavid were in the draft, he'd still be moving down?

Nor Bennett nor Reinhart. Yet CDC is ready to mortgage the farm for him.

Because McDavid is projected to be the next great player. Whether that pans out or not remains to be seen.

Why he's willing to trade a shot at Reinhart is because Reinhart is about on par with the top two centers he already has, so he doesn't need him.

Mortgaging the farm is trading the 6th and Shinkaruk for him? If that's true, we have a pretty sad farm. We'd be giving up one prospect from our pool. Big deal. We'd likely fill those holes with the Kelser trade anyways.

[peaches5]

We don't even know the cost of the first overall, so how do we know? For all we know he laughed at Vancouver's proposal.

Why can't people look beyond stats? I don't understand this. Do you really think that scouts just base everything on stats?

Ehlers having close to the same stats as Reinhart means absolutely nothing. Zilch. Two different players, two different leagues, two different teams, and two different roles on those teams.

Ehlers certainly doesn't have the same shot as Reinhart. If he did he would be in the discussion for the top two picks. Clearly scouts have analyzed weaknesses in his game. Which is why he'll likely drop a bit.

We know that Florida did not bother to interview Ekblad, Reinhart or Bennett the supposed top 3 players in this years draft and instead targeted Ehlers, Nylander and Virtanen. Florida has no interest in those top 3 picks if they were truly as good as what you think they would not be completely ignoring them. And to say that well Florida already has centres well you're talking as if Reinhart is better than Barkov and Bjugstad so then why isn't Tallon shopping them?

It's pretty clear that Tallon thinks the top 3 are not that great and wants to move down the draft and select someone who's just as good while fleecing some team.

[peaches5]

Because McDavid is projected to be the next great player. Whether that pans out or not remains to be seen.

Why he's willing to trade a shot at Reinhart is because Reinhart is about on par with the top two centers he already has, so he doesn't need him.

Mortgaging the farm is trading the 6th and Shinkaruk for him? If that's true, we have a pretty sad farm.

We do have a pretty sad farm thats why we can't be giving away our first round picks for ?????.

[DeNiro]

We know that Florida did not bother to interview Ekblad, Reinhart or Bennett the supposed top 3 players in this years draft and instead targeted Ehlers, Nylander and Virtanen. Florida has no interest in those top 3 picks if they were truly as good as what you think they would not be completely ignoring them. And to say that well Florida already has centres well you're talking as if Reinhart is better than Barkov and Bjugstad so then why isn't Tallon shopping them?

It's pretty clear that Tallon thinks the top 3 are not that great and wants to move down the draft and select someone who's just as good while fleecing some team.

No Huberdeau and Barkov are about as good as Reinhart, therefore he is looking for a winger.

The wingers will likely be drafted from 5-8 in this years draft. He clearly realized that moving down would benefit his team more right away.

[Guest Dasein]

Cause Monohan & Reinhart were actually close to being drafted the year prior, oh well its all irrelevant anyways with your other points.

I'm not disputing that having Reinhart would be nice, but it at a price, a 1-2-3 of Reinhart/Horvat then Gaunce/Cassels would be great, but at the same time, there is another draft next year with much better talent available where we could get a high pick, and to add to that, Nylander is going to be available at our pick, he could end up a #1C, or possibly even Draisaitl.

There are other avenues to get a center, its not like we are going to be a cup contender over night.

The way I see it, we are a team lacking young talent everywhere in our lineup, we are very good down the middle (aside from lacking highend potential/star power, which we lack everywhere in our pool), we have a few Dmen and a few wingers.

Overall we need high end guys, and I think we need as many good prospects as we can get, cause aside from down the middle there isn't alot of depth in our system.

I see Tanev as a huge part of team going into the future, aswell Shinkaruk, and then you factor in the possibility of getting someone like Nylander/MDC/Draisaitl/Ehlers, all who could be big time offensive players.

If the price is right I would do it, like Tanev + 6th or Shinkaruk + 6th (though I'm not keen on dealing Shinkaruk as we lack offensive talent in our prospect pool & on our roster) I would do it, if its both & the pick, no thats too big a price.

I would wait and try to make a deal with ANA for Kesler, then use the assets there to make a deal.

I just don't think this is our only hope to get a center with possible 1st line potential. And lets be honest, its not like Reinhart is a franchise player either, if he was, I would be all over it, but he's not a franchise level player, who knows he might top out as a great #2, but not a guy you would want as your #1C on a long term contender, that's part of the risk you would be taking, and honestly, I think we could get a player like that elsewhere without giving up Tanev, Shinkaruk & the 6th pick.

We don't plan on having another bad season and getting a high pick. No matter how deep next year's draft is, the player available where we pick (likely late teens/early twenties) is not going to be Reinhart's calibre. Draisaitl will never fall to #6, and Nylander is high-risk high-reward, but with Reinhart what you see is what you get - and that's what you pay up for.

It's not going to be over night. I agree. We're going to have years to build the team - that's years of drafting. So how is packaging some good prospects for one great franchise prospect going to damage us? We can add to the core we build over the next few years through the draft.

I really do think this is our shot. I guess that's our difference. I don't see us picking this low again. To me this is like when we picked up the Sedins. Reinhart, Horvat, Gaunce, Cassels. Add to them through trades, drafting and FA signings. It's not overnight, so to deplete it temporarily to get Reinhart isn't so far fetched - we can make up most of it by trading Ryan Kesler.