Gaudette Celly Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 just did a little digging to see the difference between first overalls and 6th overalls since 2008. first overalls rarely if ever disappoint. a little more complicated this draft as their is no consensus number 1 but if reinhart is that guy and we can get him then you have to make that deal. Remember though, the draft hasn't even taken place. Trades notwithstanding, Reinhart could go anywhere from 1-4. So this year it could conceivably be a comparison between Ekblad and Dal Colle or Nylander, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papayas Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 That’s where you are mistaken, You do have to compare how strong drafts are. Do you think flames would trade Monahan who they drafted at number 6 for even Reinhart this year? Not a chance. Does Dallas trade Nichushkin for this year’s 10th overall? Good luck with that. Does we trade Shinkaruk for this year’s 24th which is projected to be Vrana or Schmaltz? Do we ever consider trading Kesler for just a 23th overall in any draft? Get my point, comparing Shinkaruk only as a 24th overall doesn’t work as you have to compare the depth and strength of each draft. Like I said if last year’s Shinkaruk was in this year’s draft he would be top ten. He’s better if not on par with both Ehlers/Nylander and they both are slated to go top 10, therefor he would be top 10 this year. A strong draft or not, drafts are a crapshoot. Look at the re draft of 2004. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=722892 Outside the forsures (Malkin and Ovi) the amount of reordering is crazy. Reinhart is not a Malkin or Ovi. There are no forsure superstars in this year’s draft. It’s why 1 of the 3 top players could go number 1 and likely 1 of those 3 players will fall to number 4. Only way Reinhart goes number 1 is if Vancouver is picking, therefore that tells me he’s not the sure thing everyone thinks he is. This year isn’t like previous years. A player drafted 6th overall has a good chance of being the best or second best pick in the draft. There’s not a real huge upside in terms of potential between the 4th (where Reinhart will likely fall) and the 6th. Comparing Reinhart to Ehlers/Nylander the only difference between them is the fact that he is from NA and the others are not, that and the size factor. If Ehlers/Nylander were Canadian and both played their entire years here they would be ranked right beside Reinhart. Every year players prove to be more than the position they were drafted at 2005 Picks 72 and 11 would now be considered top 3 picks 2006 The player drafted 22nd overall is the second best pick in the draft. 2007 the player draft 43rd overall is the second best player in the draft 2008 Picks 15 and 22 would now be considered top 5 picks There is risk in hoping a player like Reinhart turns out to be a superstar, just like there is risk in hoping Shinkaruk or our 6th turns out to be a 30-40 goal scorers. You can say odds and stat’s say is less of a risk by getting Reinhart but think of the risk it would have on Bennings name. Trading for Reinhart would be a bold move. A move that could turn out very bad, whereas not trading these picks and relying on our scouting and developing is a far safer move. If Benning trades hunter and the 6th plus more and they become stars while Reinhart becomes nothing more than a second liner, that would be a major blemish on the Benning name. If he doesn’t make that move no one thinks any less of him. Anyways I’m of the impression canucks weren’t really attempting to get the 1st overall. Ticket sales don’t look too promising and Canucks needed to get some buzz and excitement. Linden said he’s going to show season ticket holders at the draft there commitment to making this team better. So they offer the Panthers an offer they know will get rejected as it has none of the needs Panthers were asking for and then come out and say “We tried but doesn’t look like it will happen”. Marketing ploy, to build trust in new management, you are using hindsight when you talk about the drafting position tho.. Of course the Flames won't trade Monahan for Reinhart after Monahan performing, but do you actually think they would actually draft Monahan over Reinart if they are in the same drafting year?? Seriously are you saying Monahan could be the first overall pick this year if he's a year younger? The same thing can go with the rest of your examples.. you can't use hindsight to compare two draft years. That goes to your whole thread basically.... No, no one will draft Datsyuk with their top 5 pick in his draft year, but according to your logic Datsyuk's year must be REALLY deep because he was drafted in the fifth round. is the 171th pick in 1998 equal to the first overall pick this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 That’s where you are mistaken, You do have to compare how strong drafts are. Do you think flames would trade Monahan who they drafted at number 6 for even Reinhart this year? Not a chance. Does Dallas trade Nichushkin for this year’s 10th overall? Good luck with that. Does we trade Shinkaruk for this year’s 24th which is projected to be Vrana or Schmaltz? Do we ever consider trading Kesler for just a 23th overall in any draft? Get my point, comparing Shinkaruk only as a 24th overall doesn’t work as you have to compare the depth and strength of each draft. Like I said if last year’s Shinkaruk was in this year’s draft he would be top ten. He’s better if not on par with both Ehlers/Nylander and they both are slated to go top 10, therefor he would be top 10 this year. A strong draft or not, drafts are a crapshoot. Look at the re draft of 2004. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=722892 Outside the forsures (Malkin and Ovi) the amount of reordering is crazy. Reinhart is not a Malkin or Ovi. There are no forsure superstars in this year’s draft. It’s why 1 of the 3 top players could go number 1 and likely 1 of those 3 players will fall to number 4. Only way Reinhart goes number 1 is if Vancouver is picking, therefore that tells me he’s not the sure thing everyone thinks he is. This year isn’t like previous years. A player drafted 6th overall has a good chance of being the best or second best pick in the draft. There’s not a real huge upside in terms of potential between the 4th (where Reinhart will likely fall) and the 6th. Comparing Reinhart to Ehlers/Nylander the only difference between them is the fact that he is from NA and the others are not, that and the size factor. If Ehlers/Nylander were Canadian and both played their entire years here they would be ranked right beside Reinhart. Every year players prove to be more than the position they were drafted at 2005 Picks 72 and 11 would now be considered top 3 picks 2006 The player drafted 22nd overall is the second best pick in the draft. 2007 the player draft 43rd overall is the second best player in the draft 2008 Picks 15 and 22 would now be considered top 5 picks There is risk in hoping a player like Reinhart turns out to be a superstar, just like there is risk in hoping Shinkaruk or our 6th turns out to be a 30-40 goal scorers. You can say odds and stat’s say is less of a risk by getting Reinhart but think of the risk it would have on Bennings name. Trading for Reinhart would be a bold move. A move that could turn out very bad, whereas not trading these picks and relying on our scouting and developing is a far safer move. If Benning trades hunter and the 6th plus more and they become stars while Reinhart becomes nothing more than a second liner, that would be a major blemish on the Benning name. If he doesn’t make that move no one thinks any less of him. Anyways I’m of the impression canucks weren’t really attempting to get the 1st overall. Ticket sales don’t look too promising and Canucks needed to get some buzz and excitement. Linden said he’s going to show season ticket holders at the draft there commitment to making this team better. So they offer the Panthers an offer they know will get rejected as it has none of the needs Panthers were asking for and then come out and say “We tried but doesn’t look like it will happen”. Marketing ploy, to build trust in new management, I'm not saying that you shouldn't compare the strengths of the draft but you seem to be making a lot of assumptions here that have no basis. For instance: Where are you getting this idea that Shinkaruk would be a top 10 draft pick this year? How do you know no one else would take Reinhart number one except Vancouver? This is not public or widely known information. Like you said there is risk either way. All 3 players that we are talking about could either make it or not make it. As I stated before a lot depends on your/our scouting. If our own scouting staff has him ranked way above everyone else it's something to look at, otherwise why even spend time looking at players just pick a random player at your spot and be done with it? What I do know is I would trade the 6th and 24th pick in any draft year for the first overall as those forwards picked at the top of the draft almost always turn out to be great players compared to 50% for players drafted later in the first round. I do like Shinkaruk though and would hate to lose him to have him become something good. However, people already saying he's going to be a perennial 40 goal a year guy and the 6th pick is guaranteed to score 30 and be at least a 10 year second liner as well are putting the cart before the horse. Anyways like others have said I'm perfectly happy drafting 6th, and keeping Hunter and I hope it works out for the best. However, there is a good chance that the most commonly rated number one forward in this draft year will turn out to be one of the best players. That's why he's rated as the best forward, not to screw with Canuck fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
From.The.Point Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Just a tidbit on Hunter. @patersonjeff: #Canucks prospect Hunter Shinkaruk tells @Team1040 he's heading to Halifax to skate with Crosby, MacKinnon and others next month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I'm not saying that you shouldn't compare the strengths of the draft but you seem to be making a lot of assumptions here that have no basis. For instance: Where are you getting this idea that Shinkaruk would be a top 10 draft pick this year? How do you know no one else would take Reinhart number one except Vancouver? This is not public or widely known information. Like you said there is risk either way. All 3 players that we are talking about could either make it or not make it. As I stated before a lot depends on your/our scouting. If our own scouting staff has him ranked way above everyone else it's something to look at, otherwise why even spend time looking at players just pick a random player at your spot and be done with it? What I do know is I would trade the 6th and 24th pick in any draft year for the first overall as those forwards picked at the top of the draft almost always turn out to be great players compared to 50% for players drafted later in the first round. I do like Shinkaruk though and would hate to lose him to have him become something good. However, people already saying he's going to be a perennial 40 goal a year guy and the 6th pick is guaranteed to score 30 and be at least a 10 year second liner as well are putting the cart before the horse. Anyways like others have said I'm perfectly happy drafting 6th, and keeping Hunter and I hope it works out for the best. However, there is a good chance that the most commonly rated number one forward in this draft year will turn out to be one of the best players. That's why he's rated as the best forward, not to screw with Canuck fans. If Tallon wants hunter and our 6th over his option to choose Reinhart I would keep a close eye on what he is seeing in both. He has a good record will selecting the high risk high reward types. if van wants the 1st overall, they are going to have to "overpay". If Tallon makes that deal obvisously he thinks the canucks paid over the value of what he believes Reinhart or Ekblad are. We will just have to wait and see I guess, just over 24 hours to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rough Neck Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Doubt it, but they don't need yet another center and the player(s) they're targeting in the draft will be in the 5th-8th range. The Panthers only have so many suitors they want to deal with because of those limited picks. If they are trading for number 1, I think they would be looking to take Ekblad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 If they are trading for number 1, I think they would be looking to take Ekblad. He's referring to Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 If Tallon wants hunter and our 6th over his option to choose Reinhart I would keep a close eye on what he is seeing in both. He has a good record will selecting the high risk high reward types. if van wants the 1st overall, they are going to have to "overpay". If Tallon makes that deal obvisously he thinks the canucks paid over the value of what he believes Reinhart or Ekblad are. We will just have to wait and see I guess, just over 24 hours to go Yep, not much longer now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 He's referring to Florida. I was, that's correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 "We're going to see what it takes to move up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nergish Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 "We're going to see what it takes to move up." This guy says 'like' a hell of a lot, eh? Haha, it's odd after seeing a pure business-talk guy like Gillis for so long. But, either way, exciting times in the next 24 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 after his interview seems many rumours here are just that,he is asking what it takes to move up,wont trade down and likes the pick we are at.I take that as "they want to much to move up" and we are set to get a good player where we are.Untill the asking price is better then we wont move up and I think giving up to much to move up isnt worth it at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whale Tail Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Ya sounds like it's going to be the 6th pick and Kesler won't be traded tomorrow. Hopefully some kind of player trade happens at least. We need some changes in our line up instead of keeping to try same players every year. I think some new perspective and voices in the group would go far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Ya sounds like it's going to be the 6th pick and Kesler won't be traded tomorrow. Hopefully some kind of player trade happens at least. We need some changes in our line up instead of keeping to try same players every year. Actually, sounds more and more like a deal for Kesler gets done. It's the 11th hour and teams are coming back in. Wasn't likely Benning would make the move before today or tonight, and probably won't until tomorrow if any offers of significance start showing up now, especially if two or more teams are really keen. May go down to the wire to see who blinks... or ponies up. I think some new perspective and voices in the group would go far. I'm just relieved the silly talk of trading Horvat, Shinkaruk, and Kassian has finally died down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Actually, sounds more and more like a deal for Kesler gets done. It's the 11th hour and teams are coming back in. Wasn't likely Benning would make the move before today or tonight, and probably won't until tomorrow if any offers of significance start showing up now, especially if two or more teams are really keen. May go down to the wire to see who blinks... or ponies up. I'm just relieved the silly talk of trading Horvat, Shinkaruk, and Kassian has finally died down That being said, I'd be all over packaging some of the return from a Kesler deal up with the 6th to bring in Reinhart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 That being said, I'd be all over packaging some of the return from a Kesler deal up with the 6th to bring in Reinhart. A part of me thinks that is EXACTLY what Benning is waiting for as the asking price without knowing the return is to high. Kinda think that Bennings offer is the "so so" offer tallon is speaking of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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