Buddhas Hand Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I see I am not the only one who sees this, BTW he's only difficult to reason with on days that end with the letter Y. Thanks for the laugh wolfman. Now that's funny! Takes a big man to have a laugh at his own expense , right on Heretic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALGARY! Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I find it funny how intolerant Athiests are. I work with plenty of Atheists and have to put up with near weekly bashing of religion. Being polite I simply ignore them. If they are getting reallly blasphemous I kindly ask them to not talk that way around me. A lot of the Athsiests I know like to talk about how religion preaches intolerance, and ignorance. But isn't it the same for an Athiest to be intolerant of a religious person. I am by no means a perfect Christian, but I do believe. I also respect everyone else's religious beliefs, as well as an atheists choice to believe in no God at all. I believe people who prefer the same sex should do as they please. Why Cant people just accept others decisions? I see quite a bit of religious bashing in this thread. It's not necessary is it? Why can't those who need to bash religion respect our right to believe and not put us down. I know there are lots of prejudice Christians, just like a lot of Muslims, Athiests, Buddhist, Hindus, Wiccans and so on also have a lot of prejudice members. No group is totally innocent, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I find it funny how intolerant Athiests are. I work with plenty of Atheists and have to put up with near weekly bashing of religion. Being polite I simply ignore them. If they are getting reallly blasphemous I kindly ask them to not talk that way around me. A lot of the Athsiests I know like to talk about how religion preaches intolerance, and ignorance. But isn't it the same for an Athiest to be intolerant of a religious person. I am by no means a perfect Christian, but I do believe. I also respect everyone else's religious beliefs, as well as an atheists choice to believe in no God at all. I believe people who prefer the same sex should do as they please. Why Cant people just accept others decisions? I see quite a bit of religious bashing in this thread. It's not necessary is it? Why can't those who need to bash religion respect our right to believe and not put us down. I know there are lots of prejudice Christians, just like a lot of Muslims, Athiests, Buddhist, Hindus, Wiccans and so on also have a lot of prejudice members. No group is totally innocent, I find it depressing that religious people refuse to acknowledge the pain and suffering that people whose actions are driven by their religious beliefs have caused to others. Should i give respect to the priest that beat me for bringing Origins of the species to religion class ? Should i give respect to the religious people that were responsible for both stolen generations in my country ? Should i give respect to the religious institutions that refuse to respect the rights of gays, lesbians and transgender people ? Should i give respect to the priests that molest young boys ? Should I give respect to religious institutions that refuse to allow women in their Hierachy ? Should i respect John Smith and believe his story and what is the difference between smith , abraham and mohammed, they are all dudes that wandered off into wilderness and claim that god spoke to them , which one should i believe and why ? If i went into the wilderness and came back and told you god spoke to me would you give me respect and follow my religion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Just to clear things up, Atheists, real Atheists, if presented with substantial evidence that god exists, would change their minds. At this point in time, there isn't enough evidence as of yet. That isn't to say that it's impossible that evidence exists, but until such time that evidence is presented, there is no reason to believe a god exists. The burden of proof lies on the one making assertions. If you assert god exists, you have to provide evidence. Atheists simply don't believe in something for which there is no evidence. There is no assertion that god doesn't exist. Simply, atheists believe there is no reason to believe a god exists because there simply is no information or data to back that up. Essentially the probability of god existing, due to the evidence presented so far, is so low, it would be illogical to believe in a god. Atheism isn't a be-all-end-all belief that god does not exist. Isn't that leaning more towards being agnostic versus being an atheist? Atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims especially the claims about the existence or non-existence of any diety are unknown or unknowable. Atheism is actually the be-all-end-all belief that god doesn't exist hence the A in Atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 In fairness, DefCon1, my post wasn't directed at you. It was directed at someone (pretty clearly, since I quoted them) that made some direct personal insults. So you'll forgive me if I replied condescendingly. I know it wasn't directed at me but its just better to present a point without any condescending remarks even if the other poster might have insulted you. It just makes the discussion more civilized, thats all. Although I understand these types of topics tend to go out of control especially when other people's belief come into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I find it depressing that religious people refuse to acknowledge the pain and suffering that people whose actions are driven by their religious beliefs have caused to others. Should i give respect to the priest that beat me for bringing Origins of the species to religion class ? Should i give respect to the religious people that were responsible for both stolen generations in my country ? Should i give respect to the religious institutions that refuse to respect the rights of gays, lesbians and transgender people ? Should i give respect to the priests that molest young boys ? Should I give respect to religious institutions that refuse to allow women in their Hierachy ? Should i respect John Smith and believe his story and what is the difference between smith , abraham and mohammed, they are all dudes that wandered off into wilderness and claim that god spoke to them , which one should i believe and why ? If i went into the wilderness and came back and told you god spoke to me would you give me respect and follow my religion ? As the saying goes, respect is a two way street. You have the right to not respect other people because of their beliefs but you have no right to complain if those same people aren't respecting you. Not everyone has the same belief as you, not everyone in this world has the same line of thinking or principle as you do. At the end of the day, no one is perfect, not even you. Also, not everything is black and white, there is always a grey area. There are religious people who are scientists that believe in evolution, there are religious people in this world that tolerate gays and their rights. There are religious people that actually do respect woman and there are priests who think molesting a child is wrong. Again, it gets tiring when people generalize religion like this. A Christian priest that molested a child doesn't represent all the catholic priests, all the Mullahs, all the rabbis, all the bhikshu etc. The way you generalize religion is like if someone said that all Vancouverites are hippies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 As the saying goes, respect is a two way street. You have the right to not respect other people because of their beliefs but you have no right to complain if those same people aren't respecting you. Not everyone has the same belief as you, not everyone in this world has the same line of thinking or principle as you do. At the end of the day, no one is perfect, not even you. Also, not everything is black and white, there is always a grey area. There are religious people who are scientists that believe in evolution, there are religious people in this world that tolerate gays and their rights. There are religious people that actually do respect woman and there are priests who think molesting a child is wrong. Again, it gets tiring when people generalize religion like this. A Christian priest that molested a child doesn't represent all the catholic priests, all the Mullahs, all the rabbis, all the bhikshu etc. The way you generalize religion is like if someone said that all Vancouverites are hippies. The generalization argument (your argument) is merely a way to dodge the actual issue that is being discussed. In no way is he generalizing. He is simply stating an unfortunate prevalent reality where moderates fail to stand up and condemn the actions of fellow believers. And, just to be clear, when I say moderates I don't mean ALL moderates, as of course there are moderates who do speak up--albeit quietly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I know it wasn't directed at me but its just better to present a point without any condescending remarks even if the other poster might have insulted you. It just makes the discussion more civilized, thats all. Although I understand these types of topics tend to go out of control especially when other people's belief come into question. Then why not respond to the original poster? Or how about one of the many insulting and condescending religious posts? A lot of hypocrisy up in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I find it depressing that religious people refuse to acknowledge the pain and suffering that people whose actions are driven by their religious beliefs have caused to others. I don't know anyone like that. Should i give respect to the priest that beat me for bringing Origins of the species to religion class ? No, but you could forgive him. Should i give respect to the religious people that were responsible for both stolen generations in my country ? No, but you could forgive them and not blame other religious people because of their mistakes. Should i give respect to the religious institutions that refuse to respect the rights of gays, lesbians and transgender people ? Nope, but not all religious institutions are like that. Should i give respect to the priests that molest young boys ? Nope. No different than any person that sexually abuses children. Doesn't mean all priests nor all people are like that though. Should I give respect to religious institutions that refuse to allow women in their Hierachy ? This is a tough one, I'm against that and again, not all religious institutions are like that (example, both my daughters were baptized as babies to a woman Anglican priest). One of my wife's friends is the lead pastor at a small community church in a small town in Alberta. Do you "respect" men's only clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Should i respect John Smith and believe his story and what is the difference between smith , abraham and mohammed, they are all dudes that wandered off into wilderness and claim that god spoke to them , which one should i believe and why ? The "truth" from your inner self will answer that question - for me it was the Bible. If i went into the wilderness and came back and told you god spoke to me would you give me respect and follow my religion ? I would respect you but wouldn't follow your religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Common sense Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The generalization argument (your argument) is merely a way to dodge the actual issue that is being discussed. In no way is he generalizing. He is simply stating an unfortunate prevalent reality where moderates fail to stand up and condemn the actions of fellow believers. And, just to be clear, when I say moderates I don't mean ALL moderates, as of course there are moderates who do speak up--albeit quietly. How are moderates supposed to speak up when their intents are perceived to be in the extreme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dral Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I find it funny how intolerant Athiests are. I work with plenty of Atheists and have to put up with near weekly bashing of religion. Being polite I simply ignore them. If they are getting reallly blasphemous I kindly ask them to not talk that way around me. A lot of the Athsiests I know like to talk about how religion preaches intolerance, and ignorance. But isn't it the same for an Athiest to be intolerant of a religious person. I am by no means a perfect Christian, but I do believe. I also respect everyone else's religious beliefs, as well as an atheists choice to believe in no God at all. I believe people who prefer the same sex should do as they please. Why Cant people just accept others decisions? I see quite a bit of religious bashing in this thread. It's not necessary is it? Why can't those who need to bash religion respect our right to believe and not put us down. I know there are lots of prejudice Christians, just like a lot of Muslims, Athiests, Buddhist, Hindus, Wiccans and so on also have a lot of prejudice members. No group is totally innocent, I find it funny how intolerant Christians are. I work with plenty of Christians and have to put up with near weekly preaching of non-believers being sinners. Being polite I simply ignore them. If they are getting really over-zealous I kindly ask them to not talk that way around me. A lot of the Christians I know like to talk about how non-belief leads to intolerance, and ignorance. But isn't it the same for a Christian to be intolerant of an Atheist person. I am by no means a perfect Atheist, but I do like to think. I also respect everyone else's religious beliefs, as well as a Christians choice to believe in God. I believe people who prefer the same sex should do as they please. Why Cant people just accept others decisions? I see quite a bit of Atheist bashing in this thread. It's not necessary is it? Why can't those who need to bash Atheism respect our right to believe and not put us down. I know there are lots of prejudice Athiests, just like a lot of Muslims, Christians, Buddhist, Hindus, Wiccans and so on also have a lot of prejudice members. No group is totally innocent, ------------------------------ Now you know how it feels to be lumped in with everyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 How are moderates supposed to speak up when their intents are perceived to be in the extreme? I'm not sure I understand your question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALGARY! Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I find it depressing that religious people refuse to acknowledge the pain and suffering that people whose actions are driven by their religious beliefs have caused to others. Should i give respect to the priest that beat me for bringing Origins of the species to religion class ? Should i give respect to the religious people that were responsible for both stolen generations in my country ? Should i give respect to the religious institutions that refuse to respect the rights of gays, lesbians and transgender people ? Should i give respect to the priests that molest young boys ? Should I give respect to religious institutions that refuse to allow women in their Hierachy ? Should i respect John Smith and believe his story and what is the difference between smith , abraham and mohammed, they are all dudes that wandered off into wilderness and claim that god spoke to them , which one should i believe and why ? If i went into the wilderness and came back and told you god spoke to me would you give me respect and follow my religion ? Should you respect and watch a game/league (NHL,NFL,CFL etc) that does not allow women into there hierarchy, or into there league at all save for Cassie Campbell on HNIC and the various "ice girls" around the league. Why is it that all your hatred and disregard is for the Christian faith? What about the hundreds of other faiths around the world? Bashing someone for being a Christian, or Muslim, or of any religious belief is no different then bashing someone for being a homosexual, or a drug addict, or a different skin color. If your saying you hate priests because one beat you, that would be like me saying I hate black people because one beat me in high school. That wouldn't be fair of me to lump an entire race together and hate them because on beat me would it? I just don't see the need for bashing anyone really. If you don't wanna believe in any sort of creator that's fine. I respect your right to not believe in that sort of thing. Please respect my right to believe in my religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 As the saying goes, respect is a two way street. You have the right to not respect other people because of their beliefs but you have no right to complain if those same people aren't respecting you. Not everyone has the same belief as you, not everyone in this world has the same line of thinking or principle as you do. At the end of the day, no one is perfect, not even you. Also, not everything is black and white, there is always a grey area. There are religious people who are scientists that believe in evolution, there are religious people in this world that tolerate gays and their rights. There are religious people that actually do respect woman and there are priests who think molesting a child is wrong. Again, it gets tiring when people generalize religion like this. A Christian priest that molested a child doesn't represent all the catholic priests, all the Mullahs, all the rabbis, all the bhikshu etc. The way you generalize religion is like if someone said that all Vancouverites are hippies. Either you are being deliberately obtuse or you fail to comprehend what i am stating. I was a little kid who had respect for his teachers { nuns and priests] until they started abusing and beating me for presenting ideas that were contrary to their beliefs. As i have stated so many times the pain and suffering that religious people have caused far outwieghs any good they have done , i have detailed the pain and suffering they have inflicted on others in my lifetime in the country i live , I am one of those victims , how would you feel if you were stolen from your family ? I am one of 250,000 alone and that is just the white stolen generation , it is hard to get numbers for the black stolen generation, and this is just australia which did/does not have a large population , imagine the numbers in other countries that have larger populations and are more fervent in their belief. I give respect to every one until they give me reason not to , i believe i have given you more than enough valid reasons why i have no respect for religious beliefs , this does not mean i do not respect the right of someone to believe , but it means that i will argue against their beliefs just as they will argue in favour of them. I keep my arguments , rational and logical , i never personally attack others just their beliefs unlike others whose religion tells them to turn the other cheek but intstead they resort to abusing others. I am not bashing anyone for their right to believe , i am criticising them for the hurt their actions cause , actions that are driven by their religious beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I don't know anyone like that. No, but you could forgive him. No, but you could forgive them and not blame other religious people because of their mistakes. Nope, but not all religious institutions are like that. Nope. No different than any person that sexually abuses children. Doesn't mean all priests nor all people are like that though. This is a tough one, I'm against that and again, not all religious institutions are like that (example, both my daughters were baptized as babies to a woman Anglican priest). One of my wife's friends is the lead pastor at a small community church in a small town in Alberta. Do you "respect" men's only clubs? No i do not . I have to admit i saw yesterday that the CE will now let women be bishops and join the ruling Hierachy , while anglicans are a very small sect of christianity - 80 million - i applaud their actions . This will never happen with catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The "truth" from your inner self will answer that question - for me it was the Bible. I would respect you but wouldn't follow your religion. Yeah my inner heart -BS detector- tells me , it tellls me that religions are men using peoples belief in a god as a control mechanism. I will attack your beliefs but i always show respect for you do i not ? And i do not carry my feelings over into other threads unlike some religious posters on this forum , who hold my beliefs and a grudge against me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Should you respect and watch a game/league (NHL,NFL,CFL etc) that does not allow women into there hierarchy, or into there league at all save for Cassie Campbell on HNIC and the various "ice girls" around the league. Why is it that all your hatred and disregard is for the Christian faith? What about the hundreds of other faiths around the world? Bashing someone for being a Christian, or Muslim, or of any religious belief is no different then bashing someone for being a homosexual, or a drug addict, or a different skin color. If your saying you hate priests because one beat you, that would be like me saying I hate black people because one beat me in high school. That wouldn't be fair of me to lump an entire race together and hate them because on beat me would it? I just don't see the need for bashing anyone really. If you don't wanna believe in any sort of creator that's fine. I respect your right to not believe in that sort of thing. Please respect my right to believe in my religion. I despise all religions mate , with christianity it is personal , it is christians who have had such a negative impact on my life. It is not just me , hundreds of thousands of people in australia alone , millions around the world , i suggest you research the actions of the catholic church which is by far the largest sect of christianity. I am respecting your right to believe , where have i ever said that you do not have the right to believe ? Respect my right to disagree and argue against what i believe to be a bunch of crazy ideas and delusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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