wallstreetamigo Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Johansen is not coming to Van guys. Keep dreaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Basically Kesler, Schneider, Edler, 1st, for Johannsen. na. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Johansen/Seguin comparable. Seguin = Johansen Peverly = Letestu Button = Larkin Erickson = Hansen + 1st Morrow = Corrado Smith = Jensen Fraser = Vey Something that should be noted is Seguin has proven more when he got traded than Johansen today. Bonino + Horvat + 2015 1st. It might not be equal value to Eriksson, Morrow, Smith and Fraser but we are getting only Johansen and Johansen has proven less than Seguin today than Seguin when he got traded. I doubt Johansen gets traded and other teams will probably give up more anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimp C Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 It is true, Horvat is a year older than McCann, so therefore is a year ahead of McCann in his developement, but Horvats strengths are for the most part teachable, and just like McCanns more offensive nature, Horvat developed denfensive instincts. Where Horvat would be rated as having higher end defensive instincts, McCann's defensive instincts are not that far below Horvat's. The reverse can be said about McCann's offensive instincts, where MCCann's offense talents are ahead of Horvat's by a simular amount. They are very simular players in with opposite strengths, it will take 3 or 4 years before we would be able to give a honest accurate assessment of who is stronger, in the mean time Horvat is NHL ready and McCann is not. There are a few dis-simular abilities which should be noted. First off, as Bobby Orr stated in his book, elite players need at least one ability that is elite, McCann has that in 2 actual talents, that being skating and shot, both that are top shelf abilities and which are noted in almost all editorials/reviews of him. Horvat on the other hand has no elite abilities, only many strong ones, which IMO will place him in the 2 or 3 role at his highest level. McCann "Could" place higher on that ladder. But the operative word here is "Could". Horvat is almost a guarantee, McCann not so much. So when desiding which one you would like to trade, be careful, as they both bring alot to the table...... As a foot note. People keep on saying, you can teach skating to pro's, I find this laughable......pro's have been on the ICE since they have been 5 or 6, having almost always given up everything to go to hockey camps, power skating etc, every summer. Not to mention the quality coaching they get along the way. Now I am not saying that they can't improve thier skating by going to schools that teach that, but they will never be elite skaters, never! Elite skaters are born, just like those other elite skills, you teach pro's position, system, checking, angling, etc, not elite skills......those that have, have! Those that don't, don't! 1. Horvat's hockey IQ is more "elite" than McCann's anything. 2. I did not say Horvat can become an elite skater. I said he can improve his skating... Thats all I said. And its not like he's a horrible Cody Hodgson level of skater. His skating ability is only slightly below NHL average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 1. Horvat's hockey IQ is more "elite" than McCann's anything. 2. I did not say Horvat can become an elite skater. I said he can improve his skating... Thats all I said. And its not like he's a horrible Cody Hodgson level of skater. His skating ability is only slightly below NHL average. Hey Sorry Pimp C I wasn't actually trying to slam you, just the idea, my apoligies! This is a good debate, and you are right for what I know of Horvats IQ, (I would agree) at this point anyways. Kinda difficult to say though as we totally missed out in seeing our 2014 prospects this summer but Bo looks very close to ready for prime time. I think though there is always risk in these trades and as someone pointed out earlier, Johansens sample size is pretty small, but if you were ever to get a prize like that in a trade, it had to be very early, just like now. Remember Naslund hadn't even had a good season when we got him and we probably wouldn't have got him if he had a season like Johansen just had, certainly not for what we paid. If Johansen has said privately to Columbus that he wants our or is even leaning that way, then I think that a solid roster player, a prospect and a draft pick should do it....... Example: #1 Higgins/Kassian/Bonino + Horvat/McCann/shinaruk + 2016 1st rounder for Johansen and 2015 2nd/3rd should do it. Example: #2 Edler + Demko + Bonino + Hansen for Johansen and 2016 2nd * For those that are about to slag Edler.........last year was bad for all Canucks and after learning Tort was using an entirely different defensive zone system than the rest of the world, no wonder someone got lost...just too bad it was Edler. He looks alot better so far this year. Yes, I know we are not getting him Wallstreetamigo.........just fun debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 There is really no comparison between Horvat and McCann right now. Horvat's IQ, passing, puck protection, strength and faceoffs are on a different level than McCann. McCann is a better skater and has a harder shot but other than that there is nothing else he is better than Horvat at. Skating is something that can be fixed, there are a lot of players in the NHL that were sub-par skaters in junior but improved that aspect. Tyler Toffoli comes to mind. And I will just pretend I didn't read that "Kesler who can pass" thing. Some of you guys create ridiculous expectations and then when a player doesn't reach those expectations you proclaim them as a bust. The "Kesler who can pass" line was just another way of saying "Center who makes a notable contribution offensively and defensively, whith an edge" but unlike Kes, he would be more inclined to use his line mates. I have no expectation that he will be as good as Kesler, one of the best players we've ever had, but I can look at his skill set now and HOPE he might be that good someday. When discussing prospects, I have only hopes, or opinions. I've watched the game long enough to know that there are no guarantees, with any of these guys. For instance my opinion of Horvat, that's how I see him now. But he could blow up and be a top line center, I've seen it happen before, Anyway just wanted to clear up what I meant by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 It is true, Horvat is a year older than McCann, so therefore is a year ahead of McCann in his developement, but Horvats strengths are for the most part teachable, and just like McCanns more offensive nature, Horvat developed denfensive instincts. Where Horvat would be rated as having higher end defensive instincts, McCann's defensive instincts are not that far below Horvat's. The reverse can be said about McCann's offensive instincts, where MCCann's offense talents are ahead of Horvat's by a simular amount. They are very simular players in with opposite strengths, it will take 3 or 4 years before we would be able to give a honest accurate assessment of who is stronger, in the mean time Horvat is NHL ready and McCann is not. There are a few dis-simular abilities which should be noted. First off, as Bobby Orr stated in his book, elite players need at least one ability that is elite, McCann has that in 2 actual talents, that being skating and shot, both that are top shelf abilities and which are noted in almost all editorials/reviews of him. Horvat on the other hand has no elite abilities, only many strong ones, which IMO will place him in the 2 or 3 role at his highest level. McCann "Could" place higher on that ladder. But the operative word here is "Could". Horvat is almost a guarantee, McCann not so much. So when desiding which one you would like to trade, be careful, as they both bring alot to the table...... As a foot note. People keep on saying, you can teach skating to pro's, I find this laughable......pro's have been on the ICE since they have been 5 or 6, having almost always given up everything to go to hockey camps, power skating etc, every summer. Not to mention the quality coaching they get along the way. Now I am not saying that they can't improve thier skating by going to schools that teach that, but they will never be elite skaters, never! Elite skaters are born, just like those other elite skills, you teach pro's position, system, checking, angling, etc, not elite skills......those that have, have! Those that don't, don't! That is exactly why I keep McCann over Horvat, The potential for something more, maybe even a #1 center (Not an expectation, just a hope) I've watched and played the game long enough to "Heed the signs" with certain players. It doesn't take a pro scout to project the type of player Horvat will be, of course anything can happen and sometimes it does, but based apron available evidence TODAY, it appears he will be a checker. All that could change, but it is the reasonable assumption. What you said about skating I have heard from numerous interviews with NHL'ers, including Paul Coffey. Great skaters are born, not made, you can improve a little, but you will always be the skater you are. So Horvat can only do so much before he puts himself behind the play, he's smart enough to know this and plays to his strengths, but I feel that one crucial shortcoming will keep him from becoming a true top 6, offensive player. Just my opinion based upon available evidence, and I hope I'm wrong. He will still be good and a great addition to the team, but it still leaves us looking for some new offense when the Sedins retire, I'm hoping McCann will be part of the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 1. Horvat's hockey IQ is more "elite" than McCann's anything. 2. I did not say Horvat can become an elite skater. I said he can improve his skating... Thats all I said. And its not like he's a horrible Cody Hodgson level of skater. His skating ability is only slightly below NHL average. Cody is actually a good example of what a former two way player with skating issues looks like in the NHL, He has chosen to focus on offense, goal scoring specifically, for the simple reason that he doesn't have the skating to be a two-way center. Which is also why the Sabers took him out of center and put him on the wing. If he tried to do what he used to do he would get burned, ending up behind the play. I see Bo as a "Hodgson in reverse" a guy who compensates for his lack of speed by focusing on his defensive play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Johansen will be one of those players like Sakic, that we'd love to have here in Vancouver, but Columbus won't let him go unless we vastly overpay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 She's all over but the crying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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