[Discussion] Johansen to Vancouver

[Warhippy]

Johansen/Seguin comparable.

Seguin = Johansen

Peverly = Letestu

Button = Larkin

Erickson = Hansen + 1st

Morrow = Corrado

Smith = Jensen

Fraser = Vey

See now that's more within the realms of reason. Promising prospect, semi rookie player established vet and a pick.

Still a shade of an overpayment imo but much more reasonable

[zombieksa]

See now that's more within the realms of reason. Promising prospect, semi rookie player established vet and a pick.

Still a shade of an overpayment imo but much more reasonable

I was just looking at output by players at the time of the trade.

Smith/Fraser and Jensen/Vey have very similar output if you compare them in terms of pre-trade.

[slappipappi]

If all forwards in the NHL were available today, how many would you choose over RJ?

Crosby

Malkin

Toews

Kane

Taveras

Stamkos

Hall

MacKinnon

Seguin

Duchene

Benn

Giroux

Kopitar

Some may say Getzlaf or Perry, but considering the age differences, I would not.

That's a short list. At that's his value.

[VegasCanuck]

Second try with tag.......imagine that!

Johansen and 2015 2nd

for

Bonino, Horvat, Edler and 2016 1st

This does not give away our franchise. What it allows us to do is focus on dman and right wing. It is alot easier to pick up a good UFA 2nd liner, than trying to make a 2nd line draft pick into a 1st line player or #1 Dman.

Maybe you start with Bonino, Horvat and Edler........

but be prepared to throw the 1st in there .....if they say no to the first offer

They will bite!

Tell us the truth, you're in Columbus and just popped in to yank our chain, right???

[zombieksa]

Tell us the truth, you're in Columbus and just popped in to yank our chain, right???

Hey definitely went overboard with that offer, but there are definitely pieces there I would move.

I'd do Edler + 1st or Edler + Horvat in a heartbeat..

That said Edler will not waive so oh well.

[Warhippy]

Hey definitely went overboard with that offer, but there are definitely pieces there I would move.

I'd do Edler + 1st or Edler + Horvat in a heartbeat..

That said Edler will not waive so oh well.

Edler 1st yes, Horvat Edler..not so sure about that. but both are a damned site better than the original proposal

[zombieksa]

Edler 1st yes, Horvat Edler..not so sure about that. but both are a damned site better than the original proposal

Johansen would want a center back preferably. One with high upside. You could put Bonino in instead, but that is unlikely due to him just getting here.

[Warhippy]

Johansen would want a center back preferably. One with high upside. You could put Bonino in instead, but that is unlikely due to him just getting here.

for age and fan appreciation, i'd throw in Bonino with Edler and a 2nd in 2016 because RJ and Virtanen would be fan faves for literal decades. But again, people need to not over value this guy.

How quickly we forget Luongo and Keslers returns regardless of contracts and the like

[shiznak]

Johansen/Seguin comparable.

Seguin = Johansen

Peverly = Letestu

Button = Larkin

Erickson = Hansen + 1st

Morrow = Corrado

Smith = Jensen

Fraser = Vey

I'm sorry, but Eriksson does not equal to Hansen and a 1st, not even close.

Eriksson was arguably Dallas' best forward at that time, scoring almost a point per game.

While Hansen is coming off his worst pro season.

[J.I.A.H.N]

for age and fan appreciation, i'd throw in Bonino with Edler and a 2nd in 2016 because RJ and Virtanen would be fan faves for literal decades. But again, people need to not over value this guy.

How quickly we forget Luongo and Keslers returns regardless of contracts and the like

Warhippy, I can't say I still think that Johansen is worth what I offered first off, but the point was to start a discussion, so I threw out some players, that would easily get him..........Bonino, Horvat, Edler and a 2016-1st........I agree that it was too high, and I yield to those who made thier points.....good

I then said maybe Bonino, Horvat and Edler, which is still overpayment IMO, but you will have to overpay to get him....yes I said the 2016 1st may need to be thrown in.........I agree too much

Now I will counter a third time with less, because of the points given by yourself and others......not here to win the arguement, just to discuss and learn. I do worry about our Rose colored glasses

My counter would be Bonino, Edler and 2016-2nd for Johansen and 2015-2nd

I think Columbus would counter with Horvat, Edler and 2016-2nd or Bonino, Edler and 2016-1st

none of which will reach Johansen's potential....of the 13 Centers that Slappipappi mention how many can Johansen play equal to now? And in 5 years will he be better than 1/2 of them? Beacause I don't think my offer gets any of them.....not a chance!

[jdatb]

Johansen/Seguin comparable.

Seguin = Johansen

Peverly = Letestu

Button = Larkin

Erickson = Hansen + 1st

Morrow = Corrado

Smith = Jensen

Fraser = Vey

lmao. Firstly you can't spell Eriksson. Secondly, even MAYBE if he was worth Hansen and a first, that's not the point. The Blue Jackets would want an established roster player who can put up points coming back. Likely either Bonino or Kassian. They would probably be asking for at least Horvat + Bonino + a first. Even then, other teams can give better offers than ours.

[Warhippy]

Warhippy, I can't say I still think that Johansen is worth what I offered first off, but the point was to start a discussion, so I threw out some players, that would easily get him..........Bonino, Horvat, Edler and a 2016-1st........I agree that it was too high, and I yield to those who made thier points.....good

I then said maybe Bonino, Horvat and Edler, which is still overpayment IMO, but you will have to overpay to get him....yes I said the 2016 1st may need to be thrown in.........I agree too much

Now I will counter a third time with less, because of the points given by yourself and others......not here to win the arguement, just to discuss and learn. I do worry about our Rose colored glasses

My counter would be Bonino, Edler and 2016-2nd for Johansen and 2015-2nd

I think Columbus would counter with Horvat, Edler and 2016-2nd or Bonino, Edler and 2016-1st

none of which will reach Johansen's potential....of the 13 Centers that Slappipappi mention how many can Johansen play equal to now? And in 5 years will he be better than 1/2 of them? Beacause I don't think my offer gets any of them.....not a chance!

Really struggling with this comment.

What makes you so sure?

Horvat is Bergeron/Toews comparable. Edler was in the Norris talk after back to back near 50 point seasons, that first could as easily be in the top 10 as in the top 20. Bonino is our current 2nd line C (seriously that's bad) and your banking on potential with another player, but not even considering the potential of the players you're getting rid of.

Stop watering the grass in another teams' yard and start watering our own....we have had NO depth in our system for over half a decade because we've been giving our youth away or drafting poorly.

Let's not mess that up selling the farm for a kid who is only a few years older than our best prospect and only has 1 half decent season under his belt but is seemingly wanting Crosby money for it

[J.I.A.H.N]

Really struggling with this comment.

What makes you so sure?

Horvat is Bergeron/Toews comparable. Edler was in the Norris talk after back to back near 50 point seasons, that first could as easily be in the top 10 as in the top 20. Bonino is our current 2nd line C (seriously that's bad) and your banking on potential with another player, but not even considering the potential of the players you're getting rid of.

Stop watering the grass in another teams' yard and start watering our own....we have had NO depth in our system for over half a decade because we've been giving our youth away or drafting poorly.

Let's not mess that up selling the farm for a kid who is only a few years older than our best prospect and only has 1 half decent season under his belt but is seemingly wanting Crosby money for it

I get what you are saying and I can't say you are wrong, matter of fact you could be bang on the money......I don't expect Benning to grab my proposal and run with it......and he seems very much in line with your point.

I am just not sold on Bonino and Horvat being a Number one kind of player, and it takes years and luck to pick one........for example. my bet is that if we end up top 5 overall pick.....I am betting Benning is picking an Offensive Center, probably top 10.

If he does that, he will then be trading with someone for a top defensive prospect that has a couple of years under his belt in the Ahl or a year or 2 in the NHL

For example....our depth would then be at center Johansen, 2015 1st- Offensive Center, McCann, Vey, Gaunce, Cassels, and Fox.

That is still crazy depth at center and would allow us to go after that NHL Defenceman prospect that has already served a couple of early years pro......One of Pittsburgs 3 young dman, One of NYIers, etc.....Dman are harder to guesstimate at draft time and a little easier, a couple years down the road....

But that is just my thoughts.......love your explanation and like I say, it is probably a lot closer to what going to happen than mine....but the dialogue is interesting and the reason I started the Post.....

Thanks

[Warhippy]

I get what you are saying and I can't say you are wrong, matter of fact you could be bang on the money......I don't expect Benning to grab my proposal and run with it......and he seems very much in line with your point.

I am just not sold on Bonino and Horvat being a Number one kind of player, and it takes years and luck to pick one........for example. my bet is that if we end up top 5 overall pick.....I am betting Benning is picking an Offensive Center, probably top 10.

If he does that, he will then be trading with someone for a top defensive prospect that has a couple of years under his belt in the Ahl or a year or 2 in the NHL

For example....our depth would then be at center Johansen, 2015 1st- Offensive Center, McCann, Vey, Gaunce, Cassels, and Fox.

That is still crazy depth at center and would allow us to go after that NHL Defenceman prospect that has already served a couple of early years pro......One of Pittsburgs 3 young dman, One of NYIers, etc.....Dman are harder to guesstimate at draft time and a little easier, a couple years down the road....

But that is just my thoughts.......love your explanation and like I say, it is probably a lot closer to what going to happen than mine....but the dialogue is interesting and the reason I started the Post.....

Thanks

For what it is worth I am also not sold on Bonino being a #2 let alone a #1. I feel he is basically a mirror of Tyler Bozak and people are seriously getting their hopes up for nothing. I also feel as though Horvat might not ever be a #1 center. But then I don't consider Toews a #1 offensive engine of a center either nor Bergeron.

But. You win championships with those guys. I've watched Horvat at both Penticton tournaments, spoke with him in eprson both years and have seen endless footage of what he does on the ice. The player he is will transcend point totals in a way a captains actions should.

I for one love the idea of getting back a potential player like Johansen. But not at the expense of our hard earned depth.

McCaan, Virtanen, Shinkaruk, Hutton, Horvat, Cassels, Tryamkin, Subban, Fox, Demko and Eriksson are all players I would deem untouchable.

We have more than enough bottom 9 depth on our roster to move under passing contracts plus picks or middling prospects to help out team improve. Without gutting that list of players to do it.

I see you brought into line the possibility of nabbing one of the better centers in this years draft, of which there are more than a few. If indeed we land in the top 10 draft position this year or even manage to trade for a pick that ends up a top 10 like Buffalo or Anaheim did last year; than I deem almost anyone not named Gaunce or Horvat expendable.

But only then and even then i'd be hard pressed to part with any of them until such time as we have seen them on the ice for 2 seasons ala Hodgson.

Johansens value is far from what people post, but obviously more than what most will pay. our meager depth is not worth it imo.

If a deal makes sense make it, but not just to make a deal.

[mpt]

HORRIBLE deal for us. For Johansen it should be something like Horvat+Jensen+1st. Giving up a player we just acquired and a top 4 defenceman is just not worth it.

No way Columbus accepts that, also we have no cap for that

[mpt]

I wouldn't give up all that for Johansen. Yes he had a good season but prior to last season, he only hasd 33 points in 107 games. Even last year, it's not like he averaged a point a game. 63 points in 82 games is good not great. Yes he's young and has potential but people on CDC are acting like he's the next best thing. Think of the Tyler Seguin trade and what Dallas gave up for him. It was nowhere close to what you're suggesting and Seguin IMO is a better, more skilled player.

I would try to offer something similar to what Dallas gave up for Seguin. They didn't give any of their best prospects.

Vey = Reilly Smith

Corrado = Joe Morrow

Something involving these guys. Maybe throw in Gaunce and a 2016 3rd?

I'd trade Vey and Corrado for Smith and Morrow any day of the week.

Again cap won't worry throwing in Gaunce (barf) and a 3rd.

[mpt]

Realistically you're going to have to give up something of value like

For what it is worth I am also not sold on Bonino being a #2 let alone a #1. I feel he is basically a mirror of Tyler Bozak and people are seriously getting their hopes up for nothing. I also feel as though Horvat might not ever be a #1 center. But then I don't consider Toews a #1 offensive engine of a center either nor Bergeron.

But. You win championships with those guys. I've watched Horvat at both Penticton tournaments, spoke with him in eprson both years and have seen endless footage of what he does on the ice. The player he is will transcend point totals in a way a captains actions should.

I for one love the idea of getting back a potential player like Johansen. But not at the expense of our hard earned depth.

McCaan, Virtanen, Shinkaruk, Hutton, Horvat, Cassels, Tryamkin, Subban, Fox, Demko and Eriksson are all players I would deem untouchable.

We have more than enough bottom 9 depth on our roster to move under passing contracts plus picks or middling prospects to help out team improve. Without gutting that list of players to do it.

I see you brought into line the possibility of nabbing one of the better centers in this years draft, of which there are more than a few. If indeed we land in the top 10 draft position this year or even manage to trade for a pick that ends up a top 10 like Buffalo or Anaheim did last year; than I deem almost anyone not named Gaunce or Horvat expendable.

But only then and even then i'd be hard pressed to part with any of them until such time as we have seen them on the ice for 2 seasons ala Hodgson.

Johansens value is far from what people post, but obviously more than what most will pay. our meager depth is not worth it imo.

If a deal makes sense make it, but not just to make a deal.

You also have to realize Johansen coming here would now make him by far the best future most potential player in the system. People aren't overrating him, he is right up there with and slightly behind the Taylor Hall crowd in terms of potential.

[Ryan Strome]

Really struggling with this comment.

What makes you so sure?

Horvat is Bergeron/Toews comparable. Edler was in the Norris talk after back to back near 50 point seasons, that first could as easily be in the top 10 as in the top 20. Bonino is our current 2nd line C (seriously that's bad) and your banking on potential with another player, but not even considering the potential of the players you're getting rid of.

Stop watering the grass in another teams' yard and start watering our own....we have had NO depth in our system for over half a decade because we've been giving our youth away or drafting poorly.

Let's not mess that up selling the farm for a kid who is only a few years older than our best prospect and only has 1 half decent season under his belt but is seemingly wanting Crosby money for it

Bergeron/toews. Wow, you serious?

[Pears]

Bergeron/toews. Wow, you serious?

TSN was

[Ryan Strome]

TSN was

Lmao those are draft day, who the player most playys the game like. By no means does it indicate that is who the player will be. Wow someone of you really reach.