Mediocre Again

[Mathew Barzal]

I would like to see Higgins and Hansen shipped out of here and Jensen brought up . Even Shinkaruk for a look or two. I think we need to be looking towards the future rather than just hoping on the Sedin line.

I think we have some talent in the system and would like to see some up here.

Yeah, I don't even think it's just those two. Matthias, Higgy, Hansen, Richardson and Burrows are all on an even playing field right now. None of them at this point in their careers seem to be able to be strong enough along the boards or smart enough to make the right plays in the offensive zone to maintain possession.

I'm just worried that next year a huge overhaul of those guys will be made and a bunch of rookies will be made to play together in our bottom six. This year was the perfect year to integrate them. Expectations are are low and we are most definitely not in a position to compete. Get them the experience this year and go all out for the Cup next year with seasoned prospects and our top line having a year to build chemistry.

[Tortorella's Rant]

Wow.

Gillis pounded this franchise in the rear real hard and called it general management.

Among several stupid moves, lets look at what we got for two #1 goalies: a fourth liner soon to be in the press box. A goalie currently in the AHL and with no future on this team as it stands, and Bo Horvat who unless pans out to be a first liner will probably not give us equal return for giving up Schneider.

Look at what the Blues gave up for Miller. A similar return like that for Schneider probably should put us right back in the playoff picture and with a few prospects to boot. It's certainly not unrealistic to think that.

[Phil_314]

Mediocrity, thy name is Luca Sbisa (Matthias might join that list soon).

Honestly, with scoring depth and pretty good defense from the top guys (particularly Edler and Tanev, also Hamhuis and Stanton) so far J.B. has done a pretty decent job with the team. Hopefully in the near future we could have something like

Danny - Hank - Verb

Higgins - Bones - Burr

Vey - Horvat - Kassian (young kid line, with two bulls to open space for Linden)
Dorset - Richardson - Hansen (solid defensive fourth line, which is good to have on a team that has three scoring lines)

//Matthias

Edler - Tanev

Hamhuis - ______

Stanton - Bieksa

Miller

Lack

[Dragonfruits]

Wow.

Gillis pounded this franchise in the rear real hard and called it general management.

Among several stupid moves, lets look at what we got for two #1 goalies: a fourth liner soon to be in the press box. A goalie currently in the AHL and with no future on this team as it stands, and Bo Horvat who unless pans out to be a first liner will probably not give us equal return for giving up Schneider.

Look at what the Blues gave up for Miller. A similar return like that for Schneider probably should put us right back in the playoff picture and with a few prospects to boot. It's certainly not unrealistic to think that.

Miller and Schneider at the time of Schneider's trade were 2 completely different goalies

people have no clue about the goalie market and it shows in a lot of posts on here

take a look at goalies similar to Schneider like Bernier or Varlamov or Scrivens all played great in their first seasons all of them were traded for a 1st round pick plus the Canucks got a 1st round pick in a deep draft

also for all the hate Gillis gets he gave this organization some of the best seasons ever both regular and post season

[bigbadcanucks]

I have felt this way since the beginning of last year and the Dallas game continues to expose this teams deficiencies.

To all the optimists that will point out that the season has just started, I know it's only been 5 games. But answer this. What is this teams strength?

Are the Canucks a skilled and finesse team? Are we a big physical team? A defensive team (LOL)? A speedy and hard on the forecheck type team? Is goaltending our strength?

I see mediocrity across the board. JB needs to define what direction he wants to go. The defense looks old and slow. Lost for most of the part. Our centers are small and weak at faceoffs. This is a 1 line team. The rest are just 2-3rd line hybrid grinder types. Goaltending should be our strength but it hasn't looked it.

I think this team needs to be a big, fast skilled team and certain players don't fit that profile (Hansen, Higgins). Jensen and Shink along with Bo Horvat should be given long looks this year.

Ana, La, Chi, Stl, Dallas, Min, and Sj seem like locks to get in. Leaving us to compete for 8th. Were a competitive team but it's mediocrity across the board.

Not sure what you were expecting from the Canucks this season, but this team is one that is in a transition right now. It's a team that is going to be battling for the 8th playoff spot, but is far from being a contender. That makes this team a middle of the road team that can on occasion look decent, and at other times look like they did vs. the Avs and Stars. So yah, this team is mediocre, but that should not be surprising to anyone.

The prospects aren't quite ready, but some will be later this season or early next season. They will be poised to knock off some of the vets taking roster spots right now.

I hate everything that Kesler said about the Canucks being 4 years away from contending for the Cup again (and that means being one of the top tier teams in the league, as opposed to struggling to make the playoffs) and as much as it hurts, I tend to agree with it.

IMO, as Horvat and Gaunce develop their game to match the NHL speed and quickness, they will be the big-bodied centermen that we need on the third and fourth lines. If Cassels and McCann can continue to develop their offensive game as they seem to be doing, they could very well be the two guys filling in the first and second line center roles. There's plenty of promise with Jensen, Shinkaruk, Virtanen and Kassian. Call me crazy, but I think a lot of this can and will happen in the next two seasons, and in four years time, we're going to have some youth in the team's core that will have the benefit of at least two years of NHL experience.

Obviously the defence will need to be shored up with young players brought in (which we don't have right now), so I would expect most of the third liners that make up the roster right now will be moved to accommodate this (either through trades, or non-signings to free up cash to go after some UFAs).

So for the next while, I'm going to enjoy watching a great group of guys play out their time in Vancouver. I'm also going to complain to my wife how the team is too loose in the neutral zone, isn't big/fast enough to forecheck in waves/layers, is too soft in our end and that we give the opposing teams too much time and space all over the ice.

[Jack Fig]

Canucks will be fine. We currently sit in a Wild card Spot and that's likely where we will finish at the end of the year.

How do figure that it's 'likely where we will finish at the end of the year?'

[Tortorella's Rant]

Miller and Schneider at the time of Schneider's trade were 2 completely different goalies

people have no clue about the goalie market and it shows in a lot of posts on here

take a look at goalies similar to Schneider like Bernier or Varlamov or Scrivens all played great in their first seasons all of them were traded for a 1st round pick plus the Canucks got a 1st round pick in a deep draft

also for all the hate Gillis gets he gave this organization some of the best seasons ever both regular and post season

Miller was practically a rental due to the expiring contract and is 6 years older than Schneider who was already signed long term. Out of prime vs. in prime. Even Varlamov got a better return and his numbers sucked in comparison to Cory's.

I don't mind Gillis either but lets look at some very simple facts: he inherited most of the team that was dominant for those couple seasons. The fact we're struggling now is largely in part due to crappy trades and pathetic drafting. A lot of those kids from the draft during his tenure should be playing for us now or soon to be and they're not because we got very few quality players out of it.

[Jack Fig]

also for all the hate Gillis gets he gave this organization some of the best seasons ever both regular and post season

Yes, but he did it at the expense of the future....the future we are now clumsily trying to navigate.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

How do figure that it's 'likely where we will finish at the end of the year?'

Because that's the level this team is at. Your basing canucks to be a bottom 10 team off what, 2 losses this year where canucks played bad.

SJ has just lost 4 in a row, including a loss to buffalo today and yet people place them at a much higher level above us. Why? Imagine if the canucks just lost to buffalo, this sites would lose it's mind. The thing is 90% of the fans on this site are very narrow sighted. Too many fans joined the canucks wagon at the time of us winning PT's and don't realize that's not the norm. They don't see beyond this city. If they watched other teams every night and critiqued them just as hard at they do with the canucks they've finally understand that canucks are a solid team. Every team has their challenges and weaknesses. We might not win the PT but we are likely to be in a playoff spot this time come april.

[Quoted]

Canucks will be fine. We currently sit in a Wild card Spot and that's likely where we will finish at the end of the year.

Which is the same as saying they are a mediocre (average) team. In terms of competing for the cup, that means they are a ways off. I don't think that that is a surprise though - they peaked a few years ago and have now dropped off. They are in a position of waiting for a couple years for prospects to develop and hoping that their veterans still can contribute when that happens. There are two big ifs there. If either doesn't happen (prospects don't pan out and/or vets decline too far beforehand) they will be into a full rebuild. Best case is that they will be a serious competitor in a couple years. Worst case is a rebuild and that could be multiple years depending on drafts. This year, as fans, just enjoy the good games and watch the development of the younger players with interest. If you are expecting them to win and compete for the cup, you'll be frustrated and disappointed.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Which is the same as saying they are a mediocre (average) team. In terms of competing for the cup, that means they are a ways off. I don't think that that is a surprise though - they peaked a few years ago and have now dropped off. They are in a position of waiting for a couple years for prospects to develop and hoping that their veterans still can contribute when that happens. There are two big ifs there. If either doesn't happen (prospects don't pan out and/or vets decline too far beforehand) they will be into a full rebuild. Best case is that they will be a serious competitor in a couple years. Worst case is a rebuild and that could be multiple years depending on drafts. This year, as fans, just enjoy the good games and watch the development of the younger players with interest. If you are expecting them to win and compete for the cup, you'll be frustrated and disappointed.

Well, what do you expect canucks to be cup contenders year in a year out?

Like I said canucks will be fine. We will competing for the wild card and hopefully get a good match up in the first round of playoffs,

[BanTSN]

I smile when I see somebody say that competing for 9th-10th-11th is a good thing. Especially after witnessing a blowout loss.

I'd probably focus on discussing the actual needs of the team before getting all excited about the prospect of facing a much better team in the first round, as a best-case scenario. Especially after witnessing a blowout loss.

I guess somebody has to finish 9th-10th-11th though. I just hope it's not us. The rebuild needs to happen sooner rather than later.

[Quoted]

Well, what do you expect canucks to be cup contenders year in a year out?

Like I said canucks will be fine. We will competing for the wild card and hopefully get a good match up in the first round of playoffs,

More like three years.

[Jack Fig]

Because that's the level this team is at. Your basing canucks to be a bottom 10 team off what, 2 losses this year where canucks played bad.

SJ has just lost 4 in a row, including a loss to buffalo today and yet people place them at a much higher level above us. Why? Imagine if the canucks just lost to buffalo, this sites would lose it's mind. The thing is 90% of the fans on this site are very narrow sighted. Too many fans joined the canucks wagon at the time of us winning PT's and don't realize that's not the norm. They don't see beyond this city. If they watched other teams every night and critiqued them just as hard at they do with the canucks they've finally understand that canucks are a solid team. Every team has their challenges and weaknesses. We might not win the PT but we are likely to be in a playoff spot this time come april.

It is? We're 7 games in, how do you know? I don't need to imagine the Canucks losing to Buffalo or any other hypothetical nonsense. I watch the team play. I see the slowness teamwide, I see the propensity for turnovers, I see the need for goaltending having to save the day a little too frequently and I see the centres not being able to win nearly enough faceoffs in any zone. Only the Sedin line plays with a real sense of confidence, the others are all flying by the seat of their pants. And I see a team that's in the top 1/3 oldest in the league in average age. Benning, Linden and Willy are a breath of fresh air, but they're hamstrung by a roster of many limitations. I can accept that the team is indeed mediocre, but it's disturbing to be mediocre and old.

[Quoted]

It is? We're 7 games in, how do you know? I don't need to imagine the Canucks losing to Buffalo or any other hypothetical nonsense. I watch the team play. I see the slowness teamwide, I see the propensity for turnovers, I see the need for goaltending having to save the day a little too frequently and I see the centres not being able to win nearly enough faceoffs in any zone. Only the Sedin line plays with a real sense of confidence, the others are all flying by the seat of their pants. And I see a team that's in the top 1/3 oldest in the league in average age. Benning, Linden and Willy are a breath of fresh air, but they're hamstrung by a roster of many limitations. I can accept that the team is indeed mediocre, but it's disturbing to be mediocre and old.

I think the "it's only been a few games" mentality is based on hope. The current team (fundamentally) has a body of work going on a few years now. Not all of last year can just be dismissed as a coaching issue. If you look att he last 105 games, not the last 5, it's pretty clear where they stand.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

It is? We're 7 games in, how do you know? I don't need to imagine the Canucks losing to Buffalo or any other hypothetical nonsense. I watch the team play. I see the slowness teamwide, I see the propensity for turnovers, I see the need for goaltending having to save the day a little too frequently and I see the centres not being able to win nearly enough faceoffs in any zone. Only the Sedin line plays with a real sense of confidence, the others are all flying by the seat of their pants. And I see a team that's in the top 1/3 oldest in the league in average age. Benning, Linden and Willy are a breath of fresh air, but they're hamstrung by a roster of many limitations. I can accept that the team is indeed mediocre, but it's disturbing to be mediocre and old.

Do your self a favour and start watching more teams around the league for consecutive games. You'll see the same weakness. As mentioned Sj has lost 4 in a row with a tough schedule coming up. Yet you and so many other assume they are on a level so much above us. Until last night Colorado has looked very initerested each game and slow. There weren't winning puck battles and weren't skating unless they were on the pp.

It's stupid to compare the canucks to other teams around the league if you don't watch the more than the two or three times they play the Canucks.

[JohnScott]

If we're talking about depth, look at this.

Right now I'd say we have got a 1st line and 3 3rds:

1+3+3+3

Normally a deep team would have a lineup of this:

1+2+3+4

If you add those combinations up they both add up to 10.

Therefore, we're just as deep as many other teams.

Our D sucks tho and goaltendings been meh

That logic is also completely flawed.

We're not that good. Mediocre is us.

[Jack Fig]

I think the "it's only been a few games" mentality is based on hope. The current team (fundamentally) has a body of work going on a few years now. Not all of last year can just be dismissed as a coaching issue. If you look att he last 105 games, not the last 5, it's pretty clear where they stand.

Agreed. Last year was a mess, but it was far more then just the oddball coach to blame.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

If we're talking about depth, look at this.

Right now I'd say we have got a 1st line and 3 3rds:

1+3+3+3

Normally a deep team would have a lineup of this:

1+2+3+4

If you add those combinations up they both add up to 10.

Therefore, we're just as deep as many other teams.

Our D sucks tho and goaltendings been meh

That logic is also completely flawed.

We're not that good. Mediocre is us.

Top teams in the west

Ana

LA

Chi

Playoff fighting teams

Dal

Sj

Stl

Col

Min

Van

Outside teams

Nsh

Edm

Bottom teams

Wpg

Cgy

Arz

It would be very hard to argue that canucks don't belong in with the playoff fighting teams.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Agreed. Last year was a mess, but it was far more then just the oddball coach to blame.

Yeah like key player injuries, disgruntle dressing room, and not enough depth.

I'd say the most significant loss was our top player injuries.

Canucks were sitting fine until right before olympic break when Hank and Santo both got injured.