Warhippy Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 My wife complains about this too, with the Cons, but I don't see that happening. Cons removing universal healthcare even in the conservative province of Alberta would be their death knell. As far as "whittled down" in the House, that would be a good thing if they whittled down a corporatist piece of legislation. Too bad it wasn't whittled down to removing the insurance industry altogether so people can go back to negotiating directly with the hospitals and doctors without the middle man hiking prices with their government created mandate. See now we're on the same footing. When I first went to work for the Bar Mill Group in the US under a working citizens visa with sponsorship they charged me $114.00 for a blood test, 24 years old I was shaking my head going what? You're charging me for this...and then the mandatory shots and immunizations etc, all told I spent almost $1000 and still happily carried travellers insurance as well as my work medical insurance. Had this gone through as was originally proposed it wouldn't have been quite so reviled imo as it would have done some serious good, but everything since including the implementation has just been lousy. As for us up here there are pieces of legislation hidden within the omnibus bills passed the last few years that actually erode canadian public health care up to and including recently the stripping of power from the countries top doctor. See the funny thing is I am about as center right as one can get before worshiping god with snakes on my arms and breeding with my cousin. but the last decade of right rulership in America and Canada has soured me completely. Honestly the only thing worse is the far elft in this day and age, watered down lazy pansies the lot of them. Corporations are running the show lock stock and barrel and neither party in the US is any better or any worse than the other, barring Ted Cruz who is complete jacka55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 So...you have an issue with this? Funny, that's very much how the Canadian system works....taxpayers pay for it all even while paying for their own medical programs and in a few provinces MSP Am I happy that the government chooses what's best for my health care? No But after living in the USA for a few years I can tell you I am also happy that if my daughter gets sick she won't be frigging homeless due to medical bills when she recovers. And THAT is the issue that was originally trying to be solved. Instead it was whittled down in to the mess and pile of crap you have before you trying to appease dem Republicans. Has anyone noted that in the last 30+ years all of the bills aimed at actually helping people in the US have been changed stymied or killed by the republicans who find a way to complain about how it will affect people, and instead lobby about the money for corporate purposes? But hey, what do I know right? I will just keep leeching off of all of that socialist health care you're whining about The point you highlighted was that that it helps the "uninsurable", not the average American. I have someone in my direct family who is uninsurable. My point is: fix it for uninsurable without overhauling the whole system when the system works for the majority of people. And, the overarching issue here (in the OP and my points) is: the Democrats had to LIE about this to get public support. As we see today, now that people know more about it (and Obama) are less and less popular. People don't like being lied to. And too many Dem supporters are willing to accept the lie, because it got Obama his signature policy passed. I have close friends/family in Canada that have had to wait several months for surgery. Surgery that was required to allow them to walk and/or work their normal job. Surgery that could get done in a week here. Obamacare will bring American health care down to that level. Do you want that level of service for your family? I can't comment on your points regarding Republican appeasements. I wouldn't be surprised, as the two parties spend so much effort to counter the other rather than work towards a solution. They will even do the same thing they criticized their opponents for when power changes into their hands. "Raising the debt limit is bad, unless it is for something we want" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebuddy Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 The point you highlighted was that that it helps the "uninsurable", not the average American. I have someone in my direct family who is uninsurable. My point is: fix it for uninsurable without overhauling the whole system when the system works for the majority of people. And, the overarching issue here (in the OP and my points) is: the Democrats had to LIE about this to get public support. As we see today, now that people know more about it (and Obama) are less and less popular. People don't like being lied to. And too many Dem supporters are willing to accept the lie, because it got Obama his signature policy passed. I have close friends/family in Canada that have had to wait several months for surgery. Surgery that was required to allow them to walk and/or work their normal job. Surgery that could get done in a week here. Obamacare will bring American health care down to that level. Do you want that level of service for your family? I can't comment on your points regarding Republican appeasements. I wouldn't be surprised, as the two parties spend so much effort to counter the other rather than work towards a solution. They will even do the same thing they criticized their opponents for when power changes into their hands. "Raising the debt limit is bad, unless it is for something we want" You want to fix the system for the uninsured? Let them join the Medicare system now instead of waiting until they're 65. As for the "Big Lie", perhaps the new Republican majority can convene hearings as to why Obama and the House and Senate Democrats were duped into Obamacare by the Heritage Foundation. I'd like to see how this transpired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebuddy Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 http://dailysignal.com/2014/11/09/caught-camera-obamacare-architect-admits-deceiving-americans-pass-law/ Regardless of how you feel about Obamacare, it is absolutely disgusting on how Gruber views the US citizens. Saying he relied on the "stupidity of the American voter" (Which, yes, most are rather uninformed) and utilizing the advantage of the nonexistent government transparency to pass a bill is huge slap in the face to the people. He says "I'd rather have the law than not". Well who is he but some mastermind statist that believes the state knows what's best for the individual? In essence, he's saying the people don't know what's best for themselves and that blatantly lying to the public to pass a law is acceptable. He goes on to say that it was written in a "tortured way so the CBO couldn't score the mandate as a tax." Funny thing is that exactly how it got passed through the US Supreme Court. As a tax. Architect of Romney's healthcare law says it's 'the same' as Obama's By Sam Baker - 11/16/11 09:02 PM EST White House hopeful Mitt Romney is lying when he says the healthcare law he signed in Massachusetts is substantively different from President Obamas, a key architect of both plans said Wednesday. Jonathan Gruber, a healthcare economist and a professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, made the comments in an interview with Capital New York, criticizing Romneys attempt to argue that the federal healthcare law goes further than what he signed as Massachusetts governor. "The problem is there is no way to say that," Gruber said. "Because they're the same f---ing bill. He just can't have his cake and eat it too. Basically, you know, it's the same bill. He can try to draw distinctions and stuff, but he's just lying. The only big difference is he didn't have to pay for his. Because the federal government paid for it. Where at the federal level, we have to pay for it, so we have to raise taxes." Gruber helped craft Romneys healthcare bill and also consulted with the Obama administration during the healthcare debate. Romneys rivals for the GOP presidential nomination havent hit him especially hard on healthcare lately. The field has largely agreed on a repeal ObamaCare message and left it at that. But there are indeed strong similarities between the two laws. They share the same basic structure: establish a new marketplace to buy private insurance; provide government subsidies to people who cant afford coverage otherwise; and use an individual mandate to bring healthy patients into the system.http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/194075-architect-of-romneys-health-bill-says-its-the-same-as-obamas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocivus Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 See now we're on the same footing. When I first went to work for the Bar Mill Group in the US under a working citizens visa with sponsorship they charged me $114.00 for a blood test, 24 years old I was shaking my head going what? You're charging me for this...and then the mandatory shots and immunizations etc, all told I spent almost $1000 and still happily carried travellers insurance as well as my work medical insurance. Had this gone through as was originally proposed it wouldn't have been quite so reviled imo as it would have done some serious good, but everything since including the implementation has just been lousy. As for us up here there are pieces of legislation hidden within the omnibus bills passed the last few years that actually erode canadian public health care up to and including recently the stripping of power from the countries top doctor. See the funny thing is I am about as center right as one can get before worshiping god with snakes on my arms and breeding with my cousin. but the last decade of right rulership in America and Canada has soured me completely. Honestly the only thing worse is the far elft in this day and age, watered down lazy pansies the lot of them. Corporations are running the show lock stock and barrel and neither party in the US is any better or any worse than the other, barring Ted Cruz who is complete jacka55. It was an insightful post until it was ruined with the bold. Architect of Romney's healthcare law says it's 'the same' as Obama's By Sam Baker - 11/16/11 09:02 PM EST White House hopeful Mitt Romney is lying when he says the healthcare law he signed in Massachusetts is substantively different from President Obamas, a key architect of both plans said Wednesday. Jonathan Gruber, a healthcare economist and a professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, made the comments in an interview with Capital New York, criticizing Romneys attempt to argue that the federal healthcare law goes further than what he signed as Massachusetts governor. "The problem is there is no way to say that," Gruber said. "Because they're the same f---ing bill. He just can't have his cake and eat it too. Basically, you know, it's the same bill. He can try to draw distinctions and stuff, but he's just lying. The only big difference is he didn't have to pay for his. Because the federal government paid for it. Where at the federal level, we have to pay for it, so we have to raise taxes." Gruber helped craft Romneys healthcare bill and also consulted with the Obama administration during the healthcare debate. Romneys rivals for the GOP presidential nomination havent hit him especially hard on healthcare lately. The field has largely agreed on a repeal ObamaCare message and left it at that. But there are indeed strong similarities between the two laws. They share the same basic structure: establish a new marketplace to buy private insurance; provide government subsidies to people who cant afford coverage otherwise; and use an individual mandate to bring healthy patients into the system.http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/194075-architect-of-romneys-health-bill-says-its-the-same-as-obamas You are way too predictable, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 You want to fix the system for the uninsured? Let them join the Medicare system now instead of waiting until they're 65. As for the "Big Lie", perhaps the new Republican majority can convene hearings as to why Obama and the House and Senate Democrats were duped into Obamacare by the Heritage Foundation. I'd like to see how this transpired. Huh? Is Obama taking marching orders from Heritage, or is this supposed to be sarcasm? Whatever it is, I don't see your point. And for bringing up RomneyCare in your other pot... you're right, they are more or less the same. Wait, the article you posted was more or less right. Credit where credit is due. Romney's hardly any better than Bush. And, since RomneyCare is so similar to Obamacare, that was why he didn't try to slam Obamacare that much. He's just another big government RINO, IMO. Taking shots at Romney here doesn't bother me in the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prana16 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 So what exactly does this have to do with Obamacare getting passed through lying and deceiving? Your attacking the source for the video that was posted. You have no logical argument except "Well, the Republicans came up and supported the mandate"? This isn't about the mandate. WTH does that have to do with the topic here? The people weren't lied to, it was just not made transparent.. and the people don't pass laws anyways. Politicians that have access to plenty of lawyers and assistants and have lots of resources to go through these laws before THEY pass them.. but some of the politicians didn't bother doing that because they were too busy speaking the 'truth' by screaming that obama was going to kill their grandma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebuddy Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Colbert Reacts To Gruber: How Dare Democrats Give Americans Healthcare! 11/14/2014 13:14 PM EDT Reacting angrily on Thursday night to the latest series of caught-on-tape comments made by one of the architects of Obamacare, comedian Stephen Colbert said he couldn't believe "elitist" Democrats had the nerve to give Americans healthcare. The host of "The Colbert Report" took a hard look at the comments made by Jonathan Gruber, an MIT professor who helped design the Affordable Care Act. Gruber was recorded saying the confusing language of the law, particularly regarding taxes, was one of the things that helped it pass. "A-ha! I knew it!" Colbert said. "Obamacare is funded by taxes, unlike every other part of the federal government. I mean everybody knows the F-35 fighter jet program is paid for with candy sales." Colbert then challenged Gruber's comments about "the stupidity of the American voter." "If you want to see how stupid Americans are just look at who they elected last Tuesday," Colbert said, referring to the GOP's nationwide sweep during the midterms. "In your face! These are smart guys!" Colbert finally brought his attack on Democrats home by pointing out their biggest flaw. "Yes, contemptuous Democrats looked down on the American people from their ivory towers and thought, 'What a pathetic horde of dullards. Let's give them healthcare.' It's shameful! It's shameful! For shame!" http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/colbert-gruber-democrats-obamacare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 The people weren't lied to, it was just not made transparent.. and the people don't pass laws anyways. Politicians that have access to plenty of lawyers and assistants and have lots of resources to go through these laws before THEY pass them.. but some of the politicians didn't bother doing that because they were too busy speaking the 'truth' by screaming that obama was going to kill their grandma. Sounds like deception then, which the title accurately suggests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebuddy Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Sounds like deception then, which the title accurately suggests. But it isn't, it's just another idiotic right wing attack on Obamacare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 But it isn't, it's just another idiotic right wing attack on Obamacare. The irony is that the original bill was so watered down etc by the time it was passed by the same right-wing faction who are now attacking the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 The irony is that the original bill was so watered down etc by the time it was passed by the same right-wing faction who are now attacking the bill. Right wing faction = Democrat President and Democrat Senate? Dat right wing House controlling everyone. Sounds legit. I bet they controlled the voters too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebuddy Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Right wing faction = Democrat President and Democrat Senate? Dat right wing House controlling everyone. Sounds legit. I bet they controlled the voters too. Right wing think tank idea passed by right wing governor and called out by same architect 3 years earlier= no whining by right wing. Obamacare passes, right wing think tank whines+ Mr. Whaahbien cries about his $4000 co-pay, boo hoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebuddy Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 23,000 more people "duped" into Obamacare, and in only 8 hours! What is this world coming to??? HHS secretary: 23,000 Obamacare applications in eight hours http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/hhs-secretary-23000-obamacare-applications-in-eight-hours/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 23,000 more people "duped" into Obamacare, and in only 8 hours! What is this world coming to??? HHS secretary: 23,000 Obamacare applications in eight hourshttp://www.cbsnews.com/videos/hhs-secretary-23000-obamacare-applications-in-eight-hours/ It's a libertarian plan to bankrupt the government... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 It's a libertarian plan to bankrupt the government... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianLoonie Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I want the US Government to go away, and bankruptcy via social programs is the best form of financial suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdatb Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Right wing think tank idea passed by right wing governor and called out by same architect 3 years earlier= no whining by right wing. Obamacare passes, right wing think tank whines+ Mr. Whaahbien cries about his $4000 co-pay, boo hoo! You must be one of those "intellectuals". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebuddy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Lol at you for being such a crybaby about having to pay $4000 as a copay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebuddy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I want the US Government to go away, and bankruptcy via social programs is the best form of financial suicide. The USA should just go for a universal system like Europe and Canada have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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