Obamacare architect admits deception used to pass law.

[CanadianLoonie]

If there were no government, there would be no politicians to engage in cronyism with

[RonMexico]

Another day, another example of private corporations lobbying politicians to make them money. The corporations being the ones involved in heath care and big Pharma. Companies profiting on death and diseases.

It's a corporate conspiracy! Are you trying to say that people are kept alive to milk their health insurance???

[Kragar]

It's working fine in Kentucky who has a democrat governor, in California, in Maryland. The reason it doesn't work in some states because it's being sabotaged; they don't want it to work. Some people choose to not get it precisely out of spite (conservatives). I know, I've argued with dimwits about this who claim that's exactly what they're doing. That's because it's a law with President Blackenstein's name on it. People whose rates may go up are almost all people who don't have employer based healthcare - the people who buy it themselves - which is about 10 to 14 million people. So it's a small percentage.

Are you somewhere in this clip?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwIn3BgVvHc

Can't watch the video while at work, and won't have time later. I live in CA. My insurance went up many times when I had private insurance. Now I have it through my employer. It goes up each year, but within reason. But they did remove options. Why?

I'm sure it works just fine for some people, regardless of state. My list of issues include the fact that the Dems lied repeatedly about this, and to pass a law of this magnitude without understanding it ahead of time is beyond irresponsible. If existing plans were good enough that people were buying them, why should the government force them to be changed only because it doesn't measure up to certain standards. If these plans sucked, people wouldn't buy them. This law reaches WAAAAY to far into the supposedly free-market people claim we live in.

There are cheaper, more efficient ways of providing health care for those that couldn't get it than this Obamacare bullcrap. Instead, this statist piece of crap has made its way into law.

[Kragar]

$$$$ is the reason. If you have it and there is a way to jump the cue, then that is what happens. If private heath care was THE BEST, then America should be /have been the best. They just spend the most.

Without a doubt money is the reason. If you have enough, you should be able to choose to afford better care.

Just like housing, schooling, food, vacationing, etc., if you have the means, you are more than welcome to enjoy better quality as a result.

You don't see Obama forcing rich people out of their mansions to live in the projects... why should he do it with health-care? And before someone claims that is not a representative example, if a patient has to wait 6-12 months for surgery under a single-payer system compared to 1-2 weeks under private care, I don't think my analogy is too far off.

[Mr. Ambien]

Another day, another example of private corporations lobbying politicians to make them money. The corporations being the ones involved in heath care and big Pharma. Companies profiting on death and diseases.

$$$$ is the reason. If you have it and there is a way to jump the cue, then that is what happens. If private heath care was THE BEST, then America should be /have been the best. They just spend the most.

Money does not allow you to "jump a cue" in the US. Hospitals and triage assess people the same way in Canada they do in the US. They don't and won't pass someone up because they lack insurance, and they certainly don't ask for their bank statements or anything else unless they apply for charity to get their stay funded by someone else, of course, after their visit, not before or during.

The way the insurance industry run healthcare system in the US has long worked is that people who use it the most pay the most. That is why they use it in a minimal fashion.

People who have universal healthcare more frequently access preventative/minor care. In the US, because of the issue of pre-existing conditions and the insane amount of people in debt due to medical bills (even with insurance), more Americans than otherwise won't go the hospital until the condition becomes serious.

This is why the wait times tend to be less in areas with less government coverage. My last hospital visit in SF before I went back to Canada, my wait was like ~ 7 hours. My last hospital visit wait time not in an urban area was 10 minutes.

When I moved to Alberta, I ordered, from Ontario, both my medical information (from the doctors offices who had charts and records of my hospital visits too) and my OHIP individual personal history that shows every time your healthcare card was used and payment was made. In 3 years of being in Ontario, I went to the hospital 2 times (once being for a scheduled tonsillectomy/adenoidectomy, the other for a dangerously severe flu that required being admitted for 3 days), and went to my GP 19 times. That's an average of nearly every 2 months. In the US, there was a period I didn't see a doctor or go to a hospital in ~ 10 years. Mostly it was because I was extremely healthy, but also lucky not to catch anything, but it was also because even with insurance (and my mom worked for top tech companies in Silicon Valley at the time like Cisco, 3com, Adobe, etc.) we had to pay out the ass, especially in any circumstance where one happened to get sick out of town and didn't have an agreement with the insurance provider. Even with my insurance from Google, I still paid $4,000 for a fricken pulled chest muscle, because it was an out of town hospital, and because they thought I was having a heart attack so did all this crap to me.

There's plenty of reasons to bash the US healthcare system without all the liberal Koch brothers-like conspiracy crap.

The only good thing about Obamacare is the pre-existing conditions clause and that could have been done without Obamacare. Government mandates to a private industry is not good business, and it only stands to help raise the cost of care, which is already ridiculously high in the US.

I do see a lot of Democrat apologists in this thread, or people who live in Canada who say it's not a big deal, but this is one of the major issues surrounding why the US is in trouble financially, given how many individuals alone are in debt due to medical bills. Obamacare flat out sucked and didn't address any real issue other than pre-existing conditions. It was passed pretty much exclusively from one party, with little debate, and of course the rationale given shouldn't be surprising to anyone, that they think the masses are stupid.. because they are.

[Hugor Hill]

Obamacare architect admits deception used to passed law.

Good.

[freebuddy]

http://dailysignal.com/2014/11/09/caught-camera-obamacare-architect-admits-deceiving-americans-pass-law/

Regardless of how you feel about Obamacare, it is absolutely disgusting on how Gruber views the US citizens. Saying he relied on the "stupidity of the American voter" (Which, yes, most are rather uninformed) and utilizing the advantage of the nonexistent government transparency to pass a bill is huge slap in the face to the people. He says "I'd rather have the law than not". Well who is he but some mastermind statist that believes the state knows what's best for the individual? In essence, he's saying the people don't know what's best for themselves and that blatantly lying to the public to pass a law is acceptable. He goes on to say that it was written in a "tortured way so the CBO couldn't score the mandate as a tax." Funny thing is that exactly how it got passed through the US Supreme Court. As a tax.

How ironic that The Daily Signal, part of the Heritage Foundation, is criticizing something they helped originate:

10/20/2011 @ 8:26AM

How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate

Avik Roy, Forbes Staff

This came up at Tuesdays Western Republican Leadership Conference Debate, where Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich tussled on the question:

ROMNEY: Actually, Newt, we got the idea of an individual mandate from you.

GINGRICH: Thats not true. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: Yes, we got it from you, and you got it from the Heritage Foundation and from you.

GINGRICH: Wait a second. What you just said is not true. You did not get that from me. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: And you never supported them?

GINGRICH: I agree with them, but Im just saying, what you said to this audience just now plain wasnt true.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMNEY: OK. Let me ask, have you supported in the past an individual mandate?

GINGRICH: I absolutely did with the Heritage Foundation against Hillarycare.

ROMNEY: You did support an individual mandate?

ROMNEY: Oh, OK. Thats what Im saying. We got the idea from you and the Heritage Foundation.

GINGRICH: OK. A little broader.

ROMNEY: OK.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/?optimizely=a

[KoreanHockeyFan]

You're missing the point that the people were blatantly lied to in order to pass the law. And Chief Justice John Roberts legislated from the bench to re-write the law as a tax. That's not his job. He does not have the authority to make or change law but only to decide whether it'c constitutional so there definitely was shady business even though you can't see it right in front of you on the video.

I see you're an advocate of the government being mommy. And yes, there are stupid voters but that's not the point. The point is that the people were lied to and deceived so that the law would pass. And it's caught ON CAMERA. And KHF has the nerve to say there's no shady business.

Okay...so say your claims are correct. So what? This kind of crap as been going on in U.S politics for years.

Republicans and Tea Party whiners are only complaining about this because for the first time in a while, legislation that didn't reflect their agenda was passed through what you suppose, illegitimate means. Kind of pathetic to see how the right suddenly has this massive uproar about shady politics when they have engaged in it as much as, if not more, as the Democrats have.

[AK_19]

There is so much corruption at this point that I'm not going to bother fighting against corruption that is clearly better for the vast majority of people.

[LaBamba]

Spend a lot of time in the states the last 3 years and man oh man do people hate Obama care. And Obama.

In fact I have never met an admitted Obama supporter and I worked in upstate NY, PA, Ohio, WV.

The unpublished belief amongst Americans is that Obama was selected by the democrats to influence the lower income population that depends on government assistance as their main source of income. Promising even more assistance and being able to relate to a black president drew a record number of voters in this populous.

Obama is tool to carry out the work for higher power.

[freebuddy]

Money does not allow you to "jump a cue" in the US. Hospitals and triage assess people the same way in Canada they do in the US. They don't and won't pass someone up because they lack insurance, and they certainly don't ask for their bank statements or anything else unless they apply for charity to get their stay funded by someone else, of course, after their visit, not before or during.

The way the insurance industry run healthcare system in the US has long worked is that people who use it the most pay the most. That is why they use it in a minimal fashion.

People who have universal healthcare more frequently access preventative/minor care. In the US, because of the issue of pre-existing conditions and the insane amount of people in debt due to medical bills (even with insurance), more Americans than otherwise won't go the hospital until the condition becomes serious.

This is why the wait times tend to be less in areas with less government coverage. My last hospital visit in SF before I went back to Canada, my wait was like ~ 7 hours. My last hospital visit wait time not in an urban area was 10 minutes.

When I moved to Alberta, I ordered, from Ontario, both my medical information (from the doctors offices who had charts and records of my hospital visits too) and my OHIP individual personal history that shows every time your healthcare card was used and payment was made. In 3 years of being in Ontario, I went to the hospital 2 times (once being for a scheduled tonsillectomy/adenoidectomy, the other for a dangerously severe flu that required being admitted for 3 days), and went to my GP 19 times. That's an average of nearly every 2 months. In the US, there was a period I didn't see a doctor or go to a hospital in ~ 10 years. Mostly it was because I was extremely healthy, but also lucky not to catch anything, but it was also because even with insurance (and my mom worked for top tech companies in Silicon Valley at the time like Cisco, 3com, Adobe, etc.) we had to pay out the ass, especially in any circumstance where one happened to get sick out of town and didn't have an agreement with the insurance provider. Even with my insurance from Google, I still paid $4,000 for a fricken pulled chest muscle, because it was an out of town hospital, and because they thought I was having a heart attack so did all this crap to me.

There's plenty of reasons to bash the US healthcare system without all the liberal Koch brothers-like conspiracy crap.

The only good thing about Obamacare is the pre-existing conditions clause and that could have been done without Obamacare. Government mandates to a private industry is not good business, and it only stands to help raise the cost of care, which is already ridiculously high in the US.

I do see a lot of Democrat apologists in this thread, or people who live in Canada who say it's not a big deal, but this is one of the major issues surrounding why the US is in trouble financially, given how many individuals alone are in debt due to medical bills. Obamacare flat out sucked and didn't address any real issue other than pre-existing conditions. It was passed pretty much exclusively from one party, with little debate, and of course the rationale given shouldn't be surprising to anyone, that they think the masses are stupid.. because they are.

But I thought you believed in the "free market" and didn't like evil government intervention in the economy. Aren't you happy to pay that $4000 as a matter of principle instead of taking care of it in Canada's evil "communistic" socialized medical system?

[Bocivus]

How ironic that The Daily Signal, part of the Heritage Foundation, is criticizing something they helped originate:

10/20/2011 @ 8:26AM

How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate

Avik Roy, Forbes Staff

This came up at Tuesdays Western Republican Leadership Conference Debate, where Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich tussled on the question:

ROMNEY: Actually, Newt, we got the idea of an individual mandate from you.

GINGRICH: Thats not true. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: Yes, we got it from you, and you got it from the Heritage Foundation and from you.

GINGRICH: Wait a second. What you just said is not true. You did not get that from me. You got it from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: And you never supported them?

GINGRICH: I agree with them, but Im just saying, what you said to this audience just now plain wasnt true.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMNEY: OK. Let me ask, have you supported in the past an individual mandate?

GINGRICH: I absolutely did with the Heritage Foundation against Hillarycare.

ROMNEY: You did support an individual mandate?

ROMNEY: Oh, OK. Thats what Im saying. We got the idea from you and the Heritage Foundation.

GINGRICH: OK. A little broader.

ROMNEY: OK.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/?optimizely=a

So what exactly does this have to do with Obamacare getting passed through lying and deceiving? Your attacking the source for the video that was posted. You have no logical argument except "Well, the Republicans came up and supported the mandate"? This isn't about the mandate. WTH does that have to do with the topic here?

[Bocivus]

Okay...so say your claims are correct. So what? This kind of crap as been going on in U.S politics for years.

Republicans and Tea Party whiners are only complaining about this because for the first time in a while, legislation that didn't reflect their agenda was passed through what you suppose, illegitimate means. Kind of pathetic to see how the right suddenly has this massive uproar about shady politics when they have engaged in it as much as, if not more, as the Democrats have.

Then go ahead and be happy with the status quo. And why mention the Republicans and Tea Party? Again, it has nothing to do with the topic here.

I thought lying in general to gain something was pretty standard as illigitimate. I guess not to you, though.

And again, this is not about which party is more corrupt. They both are. This has nothing to do with the topic.

Seems like the only argument here is pointing fingers at the other corrupt party.

[skolozsy2]

But I thought you believed in the "free market" and didn't like evil government intervention in the economy. Aren't you happy to pay that $4000 as a matter of principle instead of taking care of it in Canada's evil "communistic" socialized medical system?

Thats how you interpreted what Ambien said? Seriously?

[freebuddy]

Then go ahead and be happy with the status quo. And why mention the Republicans and Tea Party? Again, it has nothing to do with the topic here.

I thought lying in general to gain something was pretty standard as illigitimate. I guess not to you, though.

And again, this is not about which party is more corrupt. They both are. This has nothing to do with the topic.

Seems like the only argument here is pointing fingers at the other corrupt party.

If you're so worried about dishonesty, then delete this thread. Why is it that the SAME source that mentions people were "tricked" into Obamacare

originated the idea of it in the first place.

[Warhippy]

Reading replies in this thread goes to show the stupidity is not limited to American voters. The design of the law was ORCHESTRATED to fool the public. Then idiot Feinstein pushing Congress to pass it to see what's in it. The whole thing was a sham.

If it's better, then why are there still millions of Americans without coverage, and why are millions of others paying more for the coverage they had, and why are people unable to keep their plan and/or doctors despite the numerous times Obama said they would be able to keep them?

I suppose you would be fine if Obama came up with a "special enhanced quarantine" plan to resolve the Ebola issue, then secretly have each Ebola patient killed. Solves the problem, right?

How? Maybe it has the potential to do some good for the "average american who has a pre-existing condition". But not only do all other taxpayers have to support them, but they also have their own health plans impacted. If the people feel the government needs to support those that were un-insured people, then why not set up a government program to help them out, WITHOUT ruining it for everyone else? And without being so deceitful about it. I thought one of the problems Obama was going to address after being elected to was to be more transparent, since Bush was so secretive. Horsecrap!

If single-payer health plans are so good, why do so many Canadians, Brits, and others get supplemental health coverage and/or go outside the country to get health care?

Are you happy that the government chooses what is best for your health care? Considering their (Canadian, American, whatever) track record for getting everything else right, you have to be insane to want to put your coverage in the hands of the government.

So...you have an issue with this?

Funny, that's very much how the Canadian system works....taxpayers pay for it all even while paying for their own medical programs and in a few provinces MSP

Am I happy that the government chooses what's best for my health care?

No

But after living in the USA for a few years I can tell you I am also happy that if my daughter gets sick she won't be frigging homeless due to medical bills when she recovers. And THAT is the issue that was originally trying to be solved. Instead it was whittled down in to the mess and pile of crap you have before you trying to appease dem Republicans. Has anyone noted that in the last 30+ years all of the bills aimed at actually helping people in the US have been changed stymied or killed by the republicans who find a way to complain about how it will affect people, and instead lobby about the money for corporate purposes?

But hey, what do I know right? I will just keep leeching off of all of that socialist health care you're whining about

[Hobble]

Deception in politics?

Colour me shocked.

[Mr. Ambien]

So...you have an issue with this?

Funny, that's very much how the Canadian system works....taxpayers pay for it all even while paying for their own medical programs and in a few provinces MSP

Am I happy that the government chooses what's best for my health care?

No

But after living in the USA for a few years I can tell you I am also happy that if my daughter gets sick she won't be frigging homeless due to medical bills when she recovers. And THAT is the issue that was originally trying to be solved. Instead it was whittled down in to the mess and pile of crap you have before you trying to appease dem Republicans. Has anyone noted that in the last 30+ years all of the bills aimed at actually helping people in the US have been changed stymied or killed by the republicans who find a way to complain about how it will affect people, and instead lobby about the money for corporate purposes?

But hey, what do I know right? I will just keep leeching off of all of that socialist health care you're whining about

Most of the help people get in paying their medical bills in the US, who actually would need it if not covered by one of the variety of government health programs, comes in the form of charity, and Republicans sort of can't stymie those given they're individual contributions directly to the hospital.

Obamacare is a mandate to the insurance companies first and foremost, so it's funny you complain about Republicans and corporations in a thread about one of the biggest corporatist pieces of legislation in US history.

[Warhippy]

Most of the help people get in paying their medical bills in the US, who actually would need it if not covered by one of the variety of government health programs, comes in the form of charity, and Republicans sort of can't stymie those given they're individual contributions directly to the hospital.

Obamacare is a mandate to the insurance companies first and foremost, so it's funny you complain about Republicans and corporations in a thread about one of the biggest corporatist pieces of legislation in US history.

I'm not defending it Ambien, read my post again.

It started out as a very good thing and was twisted and whittled down in the house into what we see today. The exact same issues faced Douglas here in canada when he brought in his universal healthcare bill and now...well. I for one don't like the thought of Canada with a privatized health system.

[Mr. Ambien]

I'm not defending it Ambien, read my post again.

It started out as a very good thing and was twisted and whittled down in the house into what we see today. The exact same issues faced Douglas here in canada when he brought in his universal healthcare bill and now...well. I for one don't like the thought of Canada with a privatized health system.

My wife complains about this too, with the Cons, but I don't see that happening. Cons removing universal healthcare even in the conservative province of Alberta would be their death knell.

As far as "whittled down" in the House, that would be a good thing if they whittled down a corporatist piece of legislation. Too bad it wasn't whittled down to removing the insurance industry altogether so people can go back to negotiating directly with the hospitals and doctors without the middle man hiking prices with their government created mandate.