Webster6 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Let me get this straight. I don't fault the individual guy going to work the oil patch. Like the people you spoke of, I had initially gone up there with the plan of collecting money for university. I just had little knowledge of most of what I'm talking about back then, but as someone who understands it more know, I feel it would be inappropriate for me to continue doing that work and contributing to a cause I don't believe in. My view is do it if you must, but if you understand the affects. Then you're a hypocrite. As for those who are executives in the business. Absolute scum. No getting around it. They know what they're doing. @ Heretic: Yes my reality is long sighted, but i'm just in full support of getting innovation underway, and getting us there sooner than later. Because business likes to stretch the time a product should be relevant for. Oil should've been and could've been irrelevant by now, but it's still got it's venomous fangs digging into our Earth. Edit About the "addiction" to oil, don't you think you're viewpoint is just a bit idealistic? I'm partially cynical because I'm a disappointed idealist. I realize the world will never be ideal, ideal is subjective anyway. I don't believe in Utopia, I believe in Protopia. That through progress, and innovation we can hopefully make tomorrow better than today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockout Casualty Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Just to echo what Western Red said, respect Webster6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 reason #34059 why DOOM is the best rapper: he taught me about Corexit and sea life contamination years ago! Vocals spill over like the rolling hills of Dover Or the Gulf Oil Disaster if preferred youre afterDepends on your status or your statureWhether you benefit from the prior or the latter-erGet the fatter check, splitHow much for 100, 000 tons of Corexit?Sell the Chinese half-priced seafoodPrice is like a real nice street dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vanderhoek Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (1) Cargo drones (2) Your 'reality' is pretty short sighted i would be very interested to learn about cargo drones. My reality is not short sighted, im actually quite actively using and learning alternative and sustainable ways of living and shrinking my footprint on the earth. And i take pride in this while raising a young family. my point was people complain about such accidents and spills yet so many support such for their way of life lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allcanadiansurfer Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I'm partially cynical because I'm a disappointed idealist. I realize the world will never be ideal, ideal is subjective anyway. I don't believe in Utopia, I believe in Protopia. That through progress, and innovation we can hopefully make tomorrow better than today. I see where you're coming from. I come off a bit harsh, hold on to those ideals we're gonna need them... my fear is that there are 3 billion people in the developing world that want what we have. What are their ideals? And is it right for us to tell them that it's wrong to want what we've got? I enjoy vice as much as the next guy, that piece on general butt naked is a classic, pure journalism. And I can't pretend that I haven't supported the sort of rap posted above, heck I I've gone to immortal tech shows. Seems to always focus on the bad and evil in the world though, can slant one's viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster6 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I see where you're coming from. I come off a bit harsh, hold on to those ideals we're gonna need them... my fear is that there are 3 billion people in the developing world that want what we have. What are their ideals? And is it right for us to tell them that it's wrong to want what we've got? I enjoy vice as much as the next guy, that piece on general butt naked is a classic, pure journalism. And I can't pretend that I haven't supported the sort of rap posted above, heck I I've gone to immortal tech shows. Seems to always focus on the bad and evil in the world though, can slant one's viewpoint. Love Tech, wish I could've seen him live. As for the developing world. This is the touchy subject that's hard to developed a perfect opinion about. As much as disparity amongst humanity is unsettling, I feel like those holding onto the ideas that have the most benefit to the future, should protect those ideas from archaic ideology that still thrives in majority of the world. The first world thriving is slowly lifting up the third world. Corporate greed slows that down, but I try to stay optimistic for the future because as bad as humans can and have been to each other. We're getting closer and closer to being able to provide a resource based economy to a global community. My argument is that we cannot let progress in the first world be unraveled by the third world by dragging us back to their level. It's a cynical and depending on how you look at it maybe.. "inhumane" look at things, but unfortunately as of 2015.. not everyone can have the best life. The hope is to progress into a society that eventually can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster6 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 i would be very interested to learn about cargo drones. My reality is not short sighted, im actually quite actively using and learning alternative and sustainable ways of living and shrinking my footprint on the earth. And i take pride in this while raising a young family. my point was people complain about such accidents and spills yet so many support such for their way of life lol. Sorry I didn't mean to come off like a smart ass. Was just in the zone and looking to shoot down my opposition. Cargo drones are still a ways away since carrying a massive amount of mass across the sky is still tricky, but if that can become automated. It removes a lot of human or environmental risk. Edit: God damn have I ever hijacked this thread, I'm gonna shut up hahaha. EditEdit: Let these soak in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgood Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 200 million a day x 365 days a year x 10 years = $730,000,000,000 (730B) Now think about how many oligarchies there are, each owning several international oil corporations, and how much more money is being spent. it's like 10 times the number above probably. And again, this is money spent on efforts to find more places to drill for oil. This does not include money spent lobbying governments, or money to fund pseudo-science reports. I'm not arguing that there isn't money, progress, and innovation in other energy sources. I'm arguing that it's a dismal amount of money compared to it's competition. Sure oil companies would want to be "All over that", however unless their corporation is funding the research and getting the patents behind it, they won't be taking over the market. It looks to me, more or less like they're trying to suck the world dry as long as they can. To eventually amass enough money to buy up the corporations that develop the new technology. That way they win now and in the long run. It's hard to convince a market that makes billions of dollars daily to stop making profits and rather pour their money into funding research and development instead. So that they'll make profits in the future that aren't as detrimental to the environment, and in essence, humanity. Edit: This is my 1000th post : :D Sorry for nit picking, but you need to cut that dollar figure in half. Exxon is spending $100 million a day. I see your point though, it's still an astronomical amount of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster6 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Sorry for nit picking, but you need to cut that dollar figure in half. Exxon is spending $100 million a day. I see your point though, it's still an astronomical amount of money I've gotta try and find my previous source now. Damn you! Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Take away our best beach for some commercial gain? did you say commercial gRain?! AMIRIGHT?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 My argument is that we cannot let progress in the first world be unraveled by the third world by dragging us back to their level. oh no you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliesStache14 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 anyone else see the moron trying to disrupt the newscast earlier? lolhttp://globalnews.ca/news/1931155/unplanned-confrontation-with-protester-on-news-hour-ends-peacefully/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 anyone else see the moron trying to disrupt the newscast earlier? lolhttp://globalnews.ca/news/1931155/unplanned-confrontation-with-protester-on-news-hour-ends-peacefully/ haha awesome. the reporter called him buddy. we truly are well stereotyped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Yeah, I don't buy it. It's 2015. The technology exists or a variation of or something closer, the market is just so heavily tilted towards oil is a totally uneven playing field. They aren't stopping alternative sources, but they exert so much influence that they have that effect. No, it's actually the extreme opposite. Oil is heavily taxed, and green energy sources are heavily subsidized. There is no secret technology. The fact of the matter is nothing is even close to as efficient as fossil fuel fuels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 "The fact of the matter is nothing is even close to as efficient as fossil fuel fuels' fossil fuels have a 100 year, or so, head start. I think the lead is closing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 No, it's actually the extreme opposite. Oil is heavily taxed, and green energy sources are heavily subsidized. There is no secret technology. The fact of the matter is nothing is even close to as efficient as fossil fuel fuels. I'm not saying it's secret, it's just not as widespread as it would be were it on a level playing field. Depends how you define efficient, certainly solar or wind are far more efficient in that we don't have to do anything to create it. When you factor in the energy required to extract oil, the energy required to turn it into whatever energy you want, and then the cost of pollution at the end, claiming it is efficient is....a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Yeah, I don't buy it. It's 2015. The technology exists or a variation of or something closer, the market is just so heavily tilted towards oil is a totally uneven playing field. They aren't stopping alternative sources, but they exert so much influence that they have that effect. a liter of brand new lithium-ion batteries - 2.2 MJ a liter of diesel - 35.8 MJ batteries have 6.1% of diesel's energy density by volume a kilo of brand new lithium-ion batteries - 0.6 MJ a kilo of diesel - 43.1 MJ batteries have 1.4% of diesel's energy density by weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 a liter of brand new lithium-ion batteries - 2.2 MJ a liter of diesel - 35.8 MJ batteries have 6.1% of diesel's energy density by volume a kilo of brand new lithium-ion batteries - 0.6 MJ a kilo of diesel - 43.1 MJ batteries have 1.4% of diesel's energy density by weight Ummm, ok? I didn't say anything about any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I'm not saying it's secret, it's just not as widespread as it would be were it on a level playing field. Depends how you define efficient, certainly solar or wind are far more efficient in that we don't have to do anything to create it. When you factor in the energy required to extract oil, the energy required to turn it into whatever energy you want, and then the cost of pollution at the end, claiming it is efficient is....a stretch. That's the thing, with current technology, it's very difficult to harvest wind and solar energy. Turbines are inefficient and unreliable. Solar panels are expensive and require a very environmentally unfriendly production process: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/ On top of that, you can carry a combustion engine in a car. You cannot carry a wind turbine with you. So that creates the issues of battery storage and electric infrastructure to actually use the energy from these alternative sources. I'm not saying that we shouldn't make every effort to wean ourselves off fossil fuels. Hoewever, as it stands now fossil fuels are very convenient. It's also a myth that governments are inhibiting pursuit of these alternative fuel sources. Like I said before, governments tax the crap out of fossil fuels and spend huge amounts of money subsidizing, currently economically unviable, "green" sources of energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 "The fact of the matter is nothing is even close to as efficient as fossil fuel fuels' fossil fuels have a 100 year, or so, head start. I think the lead is closing though. I agree. Everyday the technology improves. Batteries get better. Solar panels get cheaper and more efficient. etc.. Even the use of fossil fuels is become more efficient. Vehicles use a portion of the gas they used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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