Canucks’ four biggest mistakes of the past year

[Alflives]

It's a fair enough opinion, but you have to concede that it's based purely on speculation.

Benning has said nothing about off-ice issues. He has only ever publicly questioned Zack's consistency. I agree that there is likely more to it than that, but I prefer to deal with what I actually know, rather than state something as fact, without anything other than "where there's smoke, there's fire" to back it up.

There is also no evidence that "the league agrees" with your assertion that his value could have increased. There is no way to know what might have happened, nor what Kassian's value might have been, has he started the season in Vancouver.

However, if he plays in Montreal, the way he did just before the injury, I stand by my assessment that the trade is going to look very bad on the Canucks.

I like Zach, and hope he does great in Montreal. I believe the evidence there are off ice issues is in his low trade value. Why did no other team want him? His age, skill set, aggressive nature, and size should have teams bidding. Yet non really came forward. I believe that's deductive reasoning, and is the only logical reason for his poor trade value.

[RUPERTKBD]

I like Zach, and hope he does great in Montreal. I believe the evidence there are off ice issues is in his low trade value. Why did no other team want him? His age, skill set, aggressive nature, and size should have teams bidding. Yet non really came forward. I believe that's deductive reasoning, and is the only logical reason for his poor trade value.

What you have to wonder is, if this is common knowledge around the league, why have we seen no concrete evidence to support the theory?

You'd think some enterprising sportswriter would have done an article about it by now....especially considering the hacks that we have in Vancity like Botch and Gallagher...

[Alflives]

What you have to wonder is, if this is common knowledge around the league, why have we seen no concrete evidence to support the theory?

You'd think some enterprising sportswriter would have done an article about it by now....especially considering the hacks that we have in Vancity like Botch and Gallagher...

I don't know. I don't really want to know Zach's issues. I really like the guy. Maybe the reporters like him too?

[hearditall]

I think my point has been all along that Kassian's issues are off ice. When a guy with his size, talent, and meanness gets to where no teams in the league want him (excepting one - and the price was basically free) then his off ice issues must be pretty bad. Heck we had to add a fifth rounder to have someone take him! I don't know, and will not speculate, what his off ice issues are, but clearly (considering no teams wanted him) the league knows.

Work ethic, injuries, coach ability, 2 way game, following team rules, doing what the coaches ask of him, Partying habits, (alcohol, drugs, curfews, etc.)???

I'm sure it was more than just 1 of these issues. And I'm also sure management from both regimes gave him plenty of opportunities but at some point the old belt needs to come out or you'll create bad habits through out the line up (family).

Also The Hockey World (NHL Teams) has a way of keeping certain issues on their players private lives private to the public. It's a very tight knit family league in many ways.

[coryberg]

It's a fair enough opinion, but you have to concede that it's based purely on speculation.

Benning has said nothing about off-ice issues. He has only ever publicly questioned Zack's consistency.

A professional organization isn't going to come out and drag a player through the mud. He was our asset so Benning wasn't going to talk about it and now he is another teams asset so we won't talk about it either.

The NHL however is a tight knit community. Players talk to each other and teams hear all the juicy rumours about everything. IE who is a jerk, who parties too much, who hits on other guys girlfriends...etc.

It's obvious that Zack exploits (whatever they may be) mad their way around the league to the point that the only value this talented big player could garner was equivalent to a 4th round pick.

I'm not happy about it but it is what it is. I hope he does well and turns a new leaf but if he scores 20 goals this year I won't cry and wish he was still here. He had 3 years, 3 coaches and god knows how many skeletons. It was time to cut bait and move on.

[Honky Cat]

What you have to wonder is, if this is common knowledge around the league, why have we seen no concrete evidence to support the theory?

You'd think some enterprising sportswriter would have done an article about it by now....especially considering the hacks that we have in Vancity like Botch and Gallagher...

I'm sure that it will all come out in the wash (dirty laundry) eventually....There's loads of writer hacks in Montreal that love to probe into players off ice lifestyles...Like yourself,I concur with you that this trade could look bad on JB, if Zack plays the way he did before he hurt his back.

It came as no shock to me that Kassian was traded,nor am I upset about his departure...but the return seems really out of step with what we gave up.......This is what we have to show for our 10th overall pick (even though Coho and Zack are close to busting,I still think both players can turn it around...given the right circumstances...IMO).

[hearditall]

I'm sure that it will all come out in the wash (dirty laundry) eventually....There's loads of writer hacks in Montreal that love to probe into players off ice lifestyles...Like yourself,I concur with you that this trade could look bad on JB, if Zack plays the way he did before he hurt his back.

It came as no shock to me that Kassian was traded,nor am I upset about his departure...but the return seems really out of step with what we gave up.......This is what we have to show for our 10th overall pick (even though Coho and Zack are close to busting,I still think both players can turn it around...given the right circumstances...IMO).

Are they both getting new backs? Then maybe...

[Honky Cat]

Are they both getting new backs? Then maybe...

We shall see....All eyes will be on ZK next season,Im as interested as any other Canuck fan,as to how he responds...

[RUPERTKBD]

Also The Hockey World (NHL Teams) has a way of keeping certain issues on their players private lives private to the public. It's a very tight knit family league in many ways.

Yeah, I don't know...Patrick Kane, Tyler Seguin, Evander Kane, Sean Avery, Slava Voynov, Rick Tocchet's gambling ring, Theo Fleury, John Kordic...

I don't really see any league wide "protection" of players' private lives.

Anything's possible, I suppose, but I don't think it's the slam dunk that so many around here do.

[KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian]

Agreed. Which is why I believe the statement that he posted.

Disagree. Those statements were referring to his play before his back injury sidelined him.

...and like you say, "If the facts don't fit my narrative, I'll fabricate something and pass it off as more likely than an actual quote",

This is the most pedantic refusal to see someone's point ever. Did you listen to the player interviews last year? There were two key issues being asked about at every game (hint: this problem was addressed in the off-season).

How can anyone say that his issues weren't on-ice? How about the inability to play consecutive shifts well?

Were you guys watching or just listening to 1040? Sometimes a guy starts to get bounces, but god, this guy was "putting it all together" about 5% of the time. Seriously, actual dominant moments? If he did a wrap-around that the goalie easily got the media guys would go off about strong play. "Look, he actually did something out there". Let's just have a higher standard.

If he does well in MTL, that's on MTL. I can think of dozens of players whose success came after they were traded. I would argue that Grabner wouldn't have broken-out here (he said that being waived was a wake-up call), and that Brett Hull was not going to become that player in Calgary. Kassian breaking out in MTL won't be proof that he would have here, simply that we obviously didn't get the most out of him.

It is fair enough to be disappointed that our Coho pick turned into Prust, but that really has no bearing on this deal or this marketplace.

If you insist that it is bad asset management, you also have to argue that holding onto him doesn't hurt us. And you have to see no value in Prust. Fine. Two fair arguments. But using a GM's public comments as proof of his private feelings and dealings? That is just...._______........, what? .

[RUPERTKBD]

This is the most pedantic refusal to see someone's point ever. Did you listen to the player interviews last year? There were two key issues being asked about at every game (hint: this problem was addressed in the off-season).

First of all, I don't think pedantic means what you think it does.

Secondly, I listened to several Canuck interviews last season. I don't recall Kassian's play being asked about after every game, so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here.

[RUPERTKBD]

How can anyone say that his issues weren't on-ice? How about the inability to play consecutive shifts well?

Were you guys watching or just listening to 1040? Sometimes a guy starts to get bounces, but god, this guy was "putting it all together" about 5% of the time. Seriously, actual dominant moments? If he did a wrap-around that the goalie easily got the media guys would go off about strong play. "Look, he actually did something out there". Let's just have a higher standard.

I have never made that claim. In fact, I have stated that "consistency" is the only issue with Kassian's play that I have publicly heard questioned by management.

Meanwhile, most everyone else keeps bringing up "off-ice" issues, even though there is no actual evidence of it. In fact, people refer to these issues as the only way to justify trading away a guy with such skills for such a meager return.

The rest of this is just biased opinion.

[RUPERTKBD]

If he does well in MTL, that's on MTL. I can think of dozens of players whose success came after they were traded. I would argue that Grabner wouldn't have broken-out here (he said that being waived was a wake-up call), and that Brett Hull was not going to become that player in Calgary. Kassian breaking out in MTL won't be proof that he would have here, simply that we obviously didn't get the most out of him.

Disagree.

As far as I'm concerned, it will show that the coaching staff handled him poorly and that management gave up on him too soon.

I do agree with you last 9 words, though.

[RUPERTKBD]

It is fair enough to be disappointed that our Coho pick turned into Prust, but that really has no bearing on this deal or this marketplace.

My feeling really have nothing to do with Prust. I believe that players like him are available as free agents on a regular basis. It's my opinion that the Canucks gave a 5th round pick away, just to get rid of a guy that they didn't like.

As I said, poor asset management.

[RUPERTKBD]

If you insist that it is bad asset management, you also have to argue that holding onto him doesn't hurt us. And you have to see no value in Prust. Fine. Two fair arguments. But using a GM's public comments as proof of his private feelings and dealings? That is just...._______........, what? .

I do believe that hanging onto Kassian wouldn't have hurt the team. And as I already said, I think we could have gotten a similar player to Prust without giving up a talent like Kassian (or anyone, really)

Finally, I'm not using Benning's words as "proof". I'm taking them at face value. You, OTOH, are suggesting that he wasn't being honest, even though you have nothing factual to base that opinion on.

As far as I can see, you're bending over backwards to try and disprove a point, because it runs counter to your argument.

[Alflives]

I do believe that hanging onto Kassian wouldn't have hurt the team. And as I already said, I think we could have gotten a similar player to Prust without giving up a talent like Kassian (or anyone, really)

Finally, I'm not using Benning's words as "proof". I'm taking them at face value. You, OTOH, are suggesting that he wasn't being honest, even though you have nothing factual to base that opinion on.

As far as I can see, you're bending over backwards to try and disprove a point, because it runs counter to your argument.

I liked Kassian, but for what ever the reasons, he had to go. The sad part is no other teams really wanted him. I think only league management types, Kassian, and teammates really know the reasons why no one wants him.

[Crabcakes]

Yes, I agree with you. Hockey is certainly a team game. I don't know if Kassian was a cancer though? By all accounts, the other players liked the big guy.

In this case, my use of the word "cancer" has nothing to do with whether anybody liked Kassian. Most people did by all accounts. You did, so did I. What I mean is that his example is at cross purposes to the Canucks team strategy. They want guys who work hard every shift, compete hard, who are difficult to play against, are physical (especially if they have the tools), use their skills etc Kassian is now 24 which is the hockey world is not that young and is getting very close to his prime years and he's still trying to find his way. He is 24 years of age and has over 200 games played in the league doesn't that qualify him as a veteran?

He's a fun guy who never takes anything seriously but never really knows when to turn off the "good time Charlie" routine. He has all the talent in the world but never really puts it all together. If management still gave him a pass after 3 seasons with the club all this talk about the kind of team their building looks like just talk. If management wanted to be taken seriously, something had to be done.

About time to cut bait.

[Alflives]

In this case, my use of the word "cancer" has nothing to do with whether anybody liked Kassian. Most people did by all accounts. You did, so did I. What I mean is that his example is at cross purposes to the Canucks team strategy. They want guys who work hard every shift, compete hard, who are difficult to play against, are physical (especially if they have the tools), use their skills etc Kassian is now 24 which is the hockey world is not that young and is getting very close to his prime years and he's still trying to find his way. He is 24 years of age and has over 200 games played in the league doesn't that qualify him as a veteran?

He's a fun guy who never takes anything seriously but never really knows when to turn off the "good time Charlie" routine. He has all the talent in the world but never really puts it all together. If management still gave him a pass after 3 seasons with the club all this talk about the kind of team their building looks like just talk. If management wanted to be taken seriously, something had to be done.

About time to cut bait.

That's when I question what is going outside of hockey with Kassian? Why does a team "cut bait" on a guy with those tools? Plus no other teams want him! There is more here than only his hockey performance. IMO.

[KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian]

First of all, I don't think pedantic means what you think it does.

Secondly, I listened to several Canuck interviews last season. I don't recall Kassian's play being asked about after every game, so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here.

Well let's see, overly literal, stubborn, hard-headed, humourless, focused on mincing details, refusing to meet someone in the middle....maybe there's a better word. You know exactly what I meant, and you're like, "that's not a literal quote!"

There is no arguing with amnesia. Are now going to tell me that Kassian wasn't a running storyline? Why do we all remember guys being asked questions about the big goof?

[coryberg]

Meanwhile, most everyone else keeps bringing up "off-ice" issues, even though there is no actual evidence of it.

No wonder you are so mad. You can't put 2 and 2 together so you think that Benning traded a valuable sought after asset with no baggage. Poor guy.