John Tortorella Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 2 hours ago, The Great 8 said: If the Canucks really wanna push for a spot they should trade Vrbata and keep hamhuis. I don't think Vrbata will re-sign with us while hamhuis is pretty much a guarantee This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numb3r 16 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 We won't make the playoffs, if we do I'll admit my mistake and cheer for us like a madman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Last yr, Ottawa's run was even more unlikely. Yet what did they get out of it? Subban's stunt on Stone, & they ran out of gas. Interestingly, like the Flamers of last yr, they didn't build on their success. Lousy this season, & Hammond looks mighty mortal. Lots of 'yoyo-teams' now. Up for a yr or two, then back in the basement, before another unsustainable run. Must be mostly a product of parity/cap-era; but it may be wise to build thoroughly(& gradually), in light of this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nom_de_plume Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 12 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said: Last yr, Ottawa's run was even more unlikely. Yet what did they get out of it? Subban's stunt on Stone, & they ran out of gas. Interestingly, like the Flamers of last yr, they didn't build on their success. Lousy this season, & Hammond looks mighty mortal. Lots of 'yoyo-teams' now. Up for a yr or two, then back in the basement, before another unsustainable run. Must be mostly a product of parity/cap-era; but it may be wise to build thoroughly(& gradually), in light of this fact. And 6 of the last 8 teams in the standings are Canadian with Montreal only a couple points away from making it all 7 in the last 9 spots. Sheesh, Canadian hockey teams are sucking the big one in the worst way. Edit: With Minny's loss today, it's 6 Canadian teams in bottom 9 spots and Montreal only points away from all 7 in the bottom 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldmanpower Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I think we have all watched games this year and have been surprised at either how great we have played or how poorly. I believe this team will have to go on quite a run in order to make the playoffs. In order for that to happen our goaltending must remain at a level it was in New York. Possible.We must have our top two lines be threats to score each night. Possible. We must play bigger and grittier on lines three and four.Possible. Lastly our defensive core must reduce giveaways and be much better down low in defensive battles. I don't know if this is possible.My blue, green and white heart desperately wants this great run to the playoffs to happen. The grey matter upstairs says open another bottle and empty quickly......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrEnkidu Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 ......I dont see anyway team management has more then one (1) option ....yes I said ONE ....there is NO WAY we will be able to lure ANY big name or any top 6 or top 4 and its not the teams fault or managements for that matter ...its a simple matter of $$$ and I dont mean that in the greedy grab all you can while you can way , with our dollar at its current level and lets be honest can anyone see a massive change in the next give or take 5 years ? It doesn't make financial sense to sign with a Canadian team , any Canadian for that matter unless that team is willing to equalize the deal and thats NOT Vancouver......They have no choice but to build from within and stockpile young cap friendly assets. While many people seem to want something to happen with the twins I feel differently , they have about 4-5 years of decent offensive numbers left realistically but their days of top 10 are over and that hurts to admit but its true......Goal tending is safe for the next 4-7 years (let Miller leave when his contract is up or deal him late for a 2nd or 3rd rounder).....2 top 4 D men......and 3-4 top 6 forwards....are more then realistic.... add the twins in 2nd or 3rd line roles and the team is not all that far from being a strong continuous late round playoff contender. I know most people dont see it this way but the more I look at it the more sense it makes ....its all about the Benjamin's or in this case the Borden's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 6 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: Just hypothetically speaking When I looked at our remaining games and awarded points by giving teams that had more points than us 2pts, those win the same 1 pt., and those that had less zero pts. Our record for our remaining games was: 9 wins........17 losses...........2-OTL Or 20 points But the problem is most of the losses come after the trade Deadline Can Benning project those numbers and make a decision based on those numbers? I am not sure he can! But if we need 80 pts. to get in.......we need 10 wins.......4 ties(OT Loss)..........14 losses 82 pts. to get in.......we need 11 wins......4 ties(OT Loss)..........13 losses 84 pts. to get in.......we need 12 wins......4 ties(OT Loss)..........12 losses 86 pts. to get in.......we need 13 wins......4 ties(OT Loss)..........11 losses 88 pts. to get in.......we need 14 wins......4 ties(OT Loss)..........10 losses 89 pts. to get in...... we need 14 wins......5 ties(OT Loss)............9 losses Compare this to a very generous winning percentage for the remaining games You get a record of.............. W L OTL Record today........................22 20 12 Future projected points.........14 9 5 Final Standings (Points)........36 29 17...............89 pts 8 pts short of Calgary's 2014-2015 final Western Conference playoff team, which was 97 points, and which was the lowest pts. total of any of the Western Conference playoff teams I just honestly don't get how Benning thinks he will go............better than 14-9-5 in his last 28 games= 33 points He would need a record of : 15 7 6 = 36 pts. or a winning percentage of 64.285 Which would give them the 4th best winning percentage compared to the first half(56 games ish) teams, just under Chicago And doing all this with out Edler and Sutter??????, and not taking into consideration any additional injuries............ If I got this right.........I can't believe he would think he could do this! and Just for the record..........89 pts. gives us the 8th OA (San Jose) pick in the 2014-2015 season 97 pts. gave Calgary the 16th OA pick Tyhee, if I have this wrong please forgive me......and mods can take it off, but I think I have it right???? Ok, I am out! I have reposted this, I put it a wrong post earlier................... I agree with your sentiment that the Canucks are effectively out of the playoffs. (If that seems unreasonably pessimistic to some, please forgive me-I'm posting this during the 3rd period of the Leafs game and the Canucks haven't shown any resemblance to a playoff team.) Otoh, while Benning talks about the goal being to make the playoffs and that they're going to try to make the playoffs, he isn't saying he predicts that they will so we don't know if he's really that optimistic. I don't think the method used above to estimate points works. (Then again, it could turn out to be fairly close this season.) The reason I don't think it works is perhaps most easily demonstrated by an example-I'm not just depending on the likelihood of teams doing better or worse than they've done in the past. Washington leads the league in points/game so far this season. The method used to extrapolate points would give them 58 points over their next 29 games. Similarly, the method used would give Edmonton 0 points over their last 28 games. Obviously those estimates, using the method you've used for the Canucks, aren't realistic. The problem is that the better team wins more games in the long run. It doesn't win every game. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, tyhee said: I agree with your sentiment that the Canucks are effectively out of the playoffs. Otoh, while Benning talks about the goal being to make the playoffs and that they're going to try to make the playoffs, he isn't saying he predicts that they will so we don't know if he's really that optimistic. Fwiw, you made the same sort of extrapolation of points last season, that is estimating points based on whether Canucks were playing teams ahead of them or behind them in the standings. Last season you'll recall the extrapolation didn't work and the Canucks came out way, way ahead of the estimate. I don't think the method used to estimate points works. The reason I don't think it works is perhaps most easily demonstrated by an example. Washington leads the league in points/game so far this season. The method used to extrapolate points would I would have to go back and look But if you remember last year, the Canucks had 101 pts. If Lack and Miller had not been so hot, and won the last 3 game (and Lack earlier when Miller was injured) We would have been 6 pts. less which would have been 95 pts., and out of the playoffs...Lack and Miller were stars 2 out of 3 games. I would also suggest that team was much better than this team, at this point, and had 2 players Vrbata and Matthais that were 2 of our 3 leading goal scorers, having career years. So I was and I wasn't so far off..............but I do concede your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 Just as an add on.........I picked Vancouver to win this one! Seriously........the vets are showing leadership?...........Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 27 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: I would have to go back and look But if you remember last year, the Canucks had 101 pts. If Lack and Miller had not been so hot, and won the last 3 game (and Lack earlier when Miller was injured) We would have been 6 pts. less which would have been 95 pts., and out of the playoffs...Lack and Miller were stars 2 out of 3 games. I would also suggest that team was much better than this team, at this point, and had 2 players Vrbata and Matthais that were 2 of our 3 leading goal scorers, having career years. So I was and I wasn't so far off..............but I do concede your point Sorry, Jan, but I think the methodology you used was further off last season than you're remembering. Your estimate for last season made January 31, 2015 was 81 points. In the thread at you wrote, after noting the then current pts/game would leave the Canucks with 94 points, you wrote in part: "... I however do not believe that this will happen. please let me explain why......... Using our current Dec/Jan winning percentage and applying it to those teams we will play in the remainder of the season, you will notice our competition is much stronger when compared by winning percentage. This means, if we only beat the teams that are below us in our Dec/Jan winning percentage, we will win a 24 points out of the remaining 70 points. This will give us a final point total of 81 pts. and a winning percentage of slightly less than 50 percent, a 49.390 percent to be exact. ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameburn Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 13 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: Just as an add on.........I picked Vancouver to win this one! Seriously........the vets are showing leadership?...........Seriously? Persistent comments by commentators during this Toronto game noting Canucks' "odd coaching decisions" -- not having Sedins start in offensive zones, nor after TV commercials, nor after the other team's forth line is tired and iced the puck. Line rotation sounded good, and didn't work too badly last year, but this year is different. Injuries, new players, etc. The fact is the Canucks idea that you be competitive and rebuild at the same time is probably not valid. If the Sedins were 30 yrs old and Burrows was half the player he used to be and Weber wasn't our go-to offensive defenseman, then it is possible a "retool" would work. None of this is the case. The veterans aren't good enough -- especially in the latter half of the year -- and the young players aren't good enough or trusted enough to make up the difference. Home ice is death and a lot of home games are coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 Ha.Ha....you bugger! LOL Can't argue with print! I said it! But, like I said......we got lucky to get into the playoffs last year, despite our 101 pts............ I will stand on what I have said then and now.................I called our final Point total at 87 for this season, back in October on the post that is pinned, and I will stand by it! It will be interesting to see the final outcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 8 minutes ago, gameburn said: Persistent comments by commentators during this Toronto game noting Canucks' "odd coaching decisions" -- not having Sedins start in offensive zones, nor after TV commercials, nor after the other team's forth line is tired and iced the puck. Line rotation sounded good, and didn't work too badly last year, but this year is different. Injuries, new players, etc. The fact is the Canucks idea that you be competitive and rebuild at the same time is probably not valid. If the Sedins were 30 yrs old and Burrows was half the player he used to be and Weber wasn't our go-to offensive defenseman, then it is possible a "retool" would work. None of this is the case. The veterans aren't good enough -- especially in the latter half of the year -- and the young players aren't good enough or trusted enough to make up the difference. Home ice is death and a lot of home games are coming up. No, I didn't catch those comments.........interesting! I think Tyhee's comments are valid for last season, and I would be the first to acknowledge, there not based on any statistical breakdown past guts feelings, points needed, and Vegas....lol..........but I think what I have said and what you are suggesting are as good as any........ Last year we had ....Vrbata career year, Matthais career year, Webber Career year, Bonino's healthy season compared to Sutters injury riddled season........there was a lot of factors going into last seasons questionable season points success. Including some very hot goalies in the second half. With Edler and Sutter out for 6 and 8 weeks......that is a lot of veteran experience in the informatory. If we have one more tree fall down........we will be in serios trouble for those that want the playoffs I think my bet is pretty safe! Time will tell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Goblin Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 What you say and what you do are completely different things. I believe this is what Benning is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 2 hours ago, tyhee said: Sorry, Jan, but I think the methodology you used was further off last season than you're remembering. Your estimate for last season made January 31, 2015 was 81 points. Sorry Tyhee......my numbers for this year were wrong.................I revised it! They are actually worse! See the first post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singing chef Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 6 hours ago, TyrEnkidu said: ......I dont see anyway team management has more then one (1) option ....yes I said ONE ....there is NO WAY we will be able to lure ANY big name or any top 6 or top 4 and its not the teams fault or managements for that matter ...its a simple matter of $$$ and I dont mean that in the greedy grab all you can while you can way , with our dollar at its current level and lets be honest can anyone see a massive change in the next give or take 5 years ? It doesn't make financial sense to sign with a Canadian team , any Canadian for that matter unless that team is willing to equalize the deal and thats NOT Vancouver......They have no choice but to build from within and stockpile young cap friendly assets. While many people seem to want something to happen with the twins I feel differently , they have about 4-5 years of decent offensive numbers left realistically but their days of top 10 are over and that hurts to admit but its true......Goal tending is safe for the next 4-7 years (let Miller leave when his contract is up or deal him late for a 2nd or 3rd rounder).....2 top 4 D men......and 3-4 top 6 forwards....are more then realistic.... add the twins in 2nd or 3rd line roles and the team is not all that far from being a strong continuous late round playoff contender. I know most people dont see it this way but the more I look at it the more sense it makes ....its all about the Benjamin's or in this case the Borden's I disagree. Players are paid in US$, therefore the buying power in a Canadian city is 30% - 35% BETTER. As well, with the current Vancouver housing market, a real estate purchase today might well appreciate by 20% in 3 years. Those 2 reasons are mighty powerful incentives to a f.a. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 5 hours ago, gameburn said: Persistent comments by commentators during this Toronto game noting Canucks' "odd coaching decisions" -- not having Sedins start in offensive zones, nor after TV commercials, nor after the other team's forth line is tired and iced the puck. Line rotation sounded good, and didn't work too badly last year, but this year is different. Injuries, new players, etc. The fact is the Canucks idea that you be competitive and rebuild at the same time is probably not valid. If the Sedins were 30 yrs old and Burrows was half the player he used to be and Weber wasn't our go-to offensive defenseman, then it is possible a "retool" would work. None of this is the case. The veterans aren't good enough -- especially in the latter half of the year -- and the young players aren't good enough or trusted enough to make up the difference. Home ice is death and a lot of home games are coming up. Commentators on which feed? (ie which commentators) About to watch the game, and would be interested... That dialogue suggests a mentality where some of the rookies are getting the prime shifts (not necessarily paired with other prime players for best chance) for development. And we are taking our lumps whether it results in winning and pushing for the play off's. Or not? They're accusations of tanking in so many words ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameburn Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said: Commentators on which feed? (ie which commentators) About to watch the game, and would be interested... That dialogue suggests a mentality where some of the rookies are getting the prime shifts (not necessarily paired with other prime players for best chance) for development. And we are taking our lumps whether it results in winning and pushing for the play off's. Or not? They're accusations of tanking in so many words ! Whoever does the HNIC play by play: Hughson, Simpson? Not sure, but they were noticing the coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 1 hour ago, gameburn said: Whoever does the HNIC play by play: Hughson, Simpson? Not sure, but they were noticing the coaching. Thanx for the reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 3 hours ago, singing chef said: I disagree. Players are paid in US$, therefore the buying power in a Canadian city is 30% - 35% BETTER. As well, with the current Vancouver housing market, a real estate purchase today might well appreciate by 20% in 3 years. Those 2 reasons are mighty powerful incentives to a f.a. Cheers. Exactly if anything players might prefer to play and live in a Canadian city as their money would go further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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