Post Game Comment: "Daniel Sedin: "From some guys right now, the effort is not there."

[gameburn]

15 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

You are not a hardcore fan of Arizona or Buffalo, neither am I.  

 

First, media in those two cities wouldn't have made a big deal out of similar comments.  

Second of all, me and you wouldn't have noticed it because we don't follow their teams.  

I have to admit, if the news isn't huge out of those cities, we wouldn't be aware of it.

 

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Much ado about nothing again.  Have people around here never said something out of frustration and then regretted it afterwards.  Think about the recent team results and then having micorphones stuffed in your face within seconds after a dreadful game.

 

We don't even know who he was talking about, or what he sees on/off the ice.

 

Exactly.  No one named - and therefore, no source in the end to confirm or deny who he may be referring to.  Don't see the point in calling out all the wild speculators in the fanbase tbh - the search for targets is certainly not exactly in short supply around here.

How many E5s can we elicit on this one?  Meh.

 

On top of that, I appreciate Daniel's hatred of losing, but it doesn't really take a lack of effort to lose 2-0 and get outshot by a large margin when it comes down to a contender vs a team full of rookies.   That's what you get in a teardown - which is what this resembles when there's a half dozen veterans out of the lineup, and the few remaining aren't exactly very healthy either.

 

Perhaps the dumbest response to it all is the "Benning didn't intend this" protest.  No duh. But people are getting what they wanted, and ironically don't have the stomach for it.  The young group has played very well at times, particularly preceding the eggs they've laid recently.   Again - that's what you get with youth - inconsistency, particularly against top notch competition that will capitalize on it.   What's the big deal again?  They lost - most people are rejoicing in their losses.  I suppose they also require that the gaggle of rookies and hobbling veterans outplay their opponents every night, but find a creative ways to lose lol.   It's time to sit back, enjoy watching the young guys, lower your immediate expectations, be thankful that the fact the draft compensates losing, and look at the season realistically, with all the factors filling out the context.  Lots of reason to be optimistic about the team's future - and the character of their youth.

[Jack Fig]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

I remember Jonathan Toews yelling at his teammate's, when the Hawks were down 0-3 in that series: "we need to [play] to expose them for who they are."  I wonder if that comment was directed to the leadership of the Twins?  

I believe it was a significant part of it. Always was impressed that Toews said that from an 0-3 hole.

[CeeBee51]

5 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

I believe it was a significant part of it. Always was impressed that Toews said that from an 0-3 hole.

The meek shall inherit the earth....... doesn't say anything about hockey though.

[oldnews]

11 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

I believe it was a significant part of it. Always was impressed that Toews said that from an 0-3 hole.

Meh.  How did that play out for him.

 

Game 5 - the Canucks outshot Chicago 36-26.

Game 6 - outshot Chicago 35-23

Game 7 - outshot Chicago 38-32.

 

If he meant expose the fact that Crawford was outplaying Luongo (as they outshot Chicago in 5 of 7 games), he might have a point.

[Jack Fig]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Meh.  How did that play out for him.

 

Game 5 - the Canucks outshot Chicago 36-26.

Game 6 - outshot Chicago 35-23

Game 7 - outshot Chicago 38-32.

 

If he meant expose the fact that Crawford was outplaying Luongo (as they outshot Chicago in 5 of 7 games).   Sedin line with Burrows had 5 goals - including both in the decisive game 7 - but I suppose it's not "clutch" if it's your linemate that does the finishing.

From 0-3, they forced OT in game 7 on the road as a 8 vs 1 seed. Good enough for me. The guy had guts to make the call.

[Barry_Wilkins]

3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Then stop responding. Last time I checked this was a forum for discussing the Canucks and you don't own it or run it. So that means I have as much right to post here as you do.

 

If you think the Sedins are clutch playoff players that's all anyone needs to know about your hockey analysis outside of using only advanced stats as the end all and be all. Here is the only stat that matters: We have choked with them as leaders and first liners every year except one on the playoffs (and we almost choked on the first round then had easy pickings in the 2nd and 3rd rounds then choked in the finals). Not exactly what I would call clutch.

 

Puck possession metrics do not equal playoff effectiveness though. Because other teams are happy to let the Sedins waste two minutes cycling the puck for a weak sauce shot from the perimeter. They do it all the time in the playoffs. 

Have you considered that it's possible for two playoff teams to play hard against one another, yet admit that one of the two still has to lose? Defeat often isn't ignominious.

 

You said upthread -- in the same post -- that the Sedins were tough, but (next paragraph) that they were chokers. You seem confused, or deliberately inflammatory, to what end I'm not sure.

 

Also, do you consider Daniel and Henrik's team support on the same level as that of Toews and Kane, or Doughty and Kopitar?

[Barry_Wilkins]

3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Not everything is an absolute. I should probably have said that the outcome (winning or losing) relies on more than just one or two players. Having said that, clutch performances by your top players contribute to your chances at success in the playoffs. That much seems common sense to me. 

 

In 2011 we were the best regular season team. We were at of near the top of the league in gf, ga, pp, pk if I am not mistaken. So theoretically we should have dominated the playoffs if all else was equal, right?

 

All else is not equal though. And THAT is where clutch players make the difference. I am in no way blaming only the Sedins. They are fine players. They are just too one dimensional to do more to help the team win if they get shut down offensively in a game or series. They don't push back and they let themselves be pushed around looking for the pp. That's fine when it works but too bad it doesn't in the playoffs. And typically teams that have their top players step up offensively AND defensively are the ones who succeed.

 

In hindsight, losing that Chicago series in round 1 would have probably brought about huge changes. That might have meant a different path for the team since then rather than all these wasted playoff years since.

Boston won game 7 in overtime in round one of 2011, too. Guess that means they were just one puck deflection away from "choking", too.

[oldnews]

15 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

From 0-3, they forced OT in game 7 on the road as a 8 vs 1 seed. Good enough for me. The guy had guts to make the call.

Interesting perspective.  So almost is good enough?    

He shot his mouth off - with nothing to lose really - but he failed.

I guess close counts though.  

By that standard, the wounded Canucks forced a game 7, almost won the Stanley Cup.  Good enough for me.

[Jack Fig]

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Interesting perspective.  So almost is good enough?    

He shot his mouth off - with nothing to lose really - but he failed.

I guess close counts though.  

By that standard, the wounded Canucks forced a game 7, almost won the Stanley Cup.  Good enough for me.

He failed, huh? Toews has captained his team to 3 Cups, the first coming when he was barely 22 years old. The wonderful Canucks of 2011 were one Luongo save away from committing the biggest choke-job in the history of the NHL playoffs. That shouldn't be forgotten.

 

[Yukoncanuck87]

Your either first or yur last in the end.

[CrashNBash]

You guys have it all wrong! He was upset with the guys playing hard and trying to win, high draft pick coming. ;-)

[The Big Luongo]

Unbelievable. A player as soft as a 140 pound ringette player getting ample opportunity to score points and help his team win and is invisible most nights calling out his teammates. 

 

Maybe the Sedins better look in the mirror then man up over the off season and hit the weights build those scrawny bodies and try get some speed while they're at it. Maybe then H Sedin can win the odd faceoff and they can win the odd board battle instead of getting shoved around like a couple little girls.

 

Either that or just retire and save us the cap space. Liked the Sedins contributions on and off the ice for years but there's just no way we can compete unless the make improvements and the chances of that look to be slim and none unfortunately.

 

Playing guys soft as butter every night like the Sedins, Vey, Burrows, Vrbata, Weber and Edler and all the injuries it's no wonder why we're nowhere near a playoff spot it would be a miracle if they were.

[THERETOOL]

i think we may have a kassian like problem with Virt ..  I won't make any accusations because i cannot provide proof ..  I have a feeling that part of daniels call out had something to do with this .     you play hard you better come to the rink and play harder if you catch my drift 

[Sean Monahan]

6 minutes ago, Lulover88 said:

i think we may have a kassian like problem with Virt ..  I won't make any accusations because i cannot provide proof ..  I have a feeling that part of daniels call out had something to do with this .     you play hard you better come to the rink and play harder if you catch my drift 

Still early to say but there does seem to be some red flags. Bieber isn't exactly known for his tame and sensible behavior.

 

And I know this means next to nothing on the internet but through mutual friends I've heard he likes to drink and carouse. That's not uncommon for a kid his age in the position he's in but pretty soon he's going to have to realize he's not your average 19/20 year old and not living their average life and he'll have to handle himself accordingly. 

[THERETOOL]

Just now, Wild Sean Monahan said:

Still early to say but there does seem to be some red flags. Bieber isn't exactly known for his tame and sensible behavior.

 

And I know this means next to nothing on the internet but through mutual friends I've heard he likes to drink and carouse. That's not uncommon for a kid his age in the position he's in but pretty soon he's going to have to realize he's not your average 19/20 year old and not living their average life and he'll have to handle himself accordingly. 

of coarse .. id be no different . its just that if you choose to enjoy , you must be prepared to work even harder when you get to work .. I have too many friends who keep telling me its a problem with a couple of the kids on the team ..    again , no proof ..  just a lot of talk from my buds that run the bars .. too many mcann and virt sightings ..  not enough happening in practice and games i guess 

[Brockbuster]

You can't question the Sedins effort, ever. However the Sedins comments would sound a lot more genuine if they weren't a

combined 2 pts in the last 8 games!

[Sean Monahan]

3 minutes ago, Lulover88 said:

of coarse .. id be no different . its just that if you choose to enjoy , you must be prepared to work even harder when you get to work .. I have too many friends who keep telling me its a problem with a couple of the kids on the team ..    again , no proof ..  just a lot of talk from my buds that run the bars .. too many mcann and virt sightings ..  not enough happening in practice and games i guess 

McCann too? He doesn't strike me as the type. That's a little disappointing. I really don't know but I just can't see the Sedins ever getting trashed at the Roxy with any sort of regularity, even in their younger bachelor years. If the kids are drinking too regularly somebody's going to have to give them a serious talking too before long. There's a time and a place for boozing...but when you're 19 years old, trying to establish a foothold in the best hockey league in the world, and your team is mired in  a terrible stretch in one of the worst seasons in the franchise's history...that isn't the time.

 

Side story...My dad was VPD for a long time and back when Linden was the young captain they got a call to go to the Roxy for some sort of disturbance. One of the Canucks had got in a fight and all hell had broken loose. The guys were hammered and disoriented causing a scene. Linden was also pretty drunk, but he was quietly getting into cabs and apologizing to the cabby, the bouncers, the police, and just about everybody involved. Pretty much sums TL.

[THERETOOL]

2 minutes ago, Wild Sean Monahan said:

McCann too? He doesn't strike me as the type. That's a little disappointing. I really don't know but I just can't see the Sedins ever getting trashed at the Roxy with any sort of regularity, even in their younger bachelor years. If the kids are drinking too regularly somebody's going to have to give them a serious talking too before long. There's a time and a place for boozing...but when you're 19 years old, trying to establish a foothold in the best hockey league in the world, and your team is mired in  a terrible stretch in one of the worst seasons in the franchise's history...that isn't the time.

 

Side story...My dad was VPD for a long time and back when Linden was the young captain they got a call to go to the Roxy for some sort of disturbance. One of the Canucks had got in a fight and all hell had broken loose. The guys were hammered and disoriented causing a scene. Linden was also pretty drunk, but he was quietly getting into cabs and apologizing to the cabby, the bouncers, the police, and just about everybody involved. Pretty much sums TL.

I cant imagine what I would do with all that fame and money as a young kid .  Gotta be tough to stay disciplined .  I dont judge too harshly 

[Sean Monahan]

4 minutes ago, Lulover88 said:

I cant imagine what I would do with all that fame and money as a young kid .  Gotta be tough to stay disciplined .  I dont judge too harshly 

Yeah, they're far from the first youngsters to get themselves into that sort of shenanigans and they won't be the last. But before long they need to realize they're in a pretty special place that thousands (millions?) of people dream of. Their line of work isn't "normal" for a 19 year old and requires exceptional preparation too.n They don't need to look  much further than Zack Kassian to see what excessive partying can do to a career.