Post Game Comment: "Daniel Sedin: "From some guys right now, the effort is not there."

[Barry_Wilkins]

On 3/20/2016 at 3:31 PM, Pete M said:

It's the coach's responsibility to make the team play as a team...WD should be benching the players who are playing half ass...this is the result of the decisions made over the course of the season...the accountability was not where it was supposed to be...many nights it was the vets that lacked the effort and they were never benched; it was usually the young players who were playing hard that were benched...the message sent was and is confusing to the players who were working hard but were benched.

 

Sedins are not untouchable...I've witnessed many games where they were floating (playing positional) and not working hard...they're the leaders and they set the example for the young guys to follow. When the young guys see them floating, then the example they set is wrong.

 

In addition, the effort is lacking with the PP...the other team's PK is out working our PP...there is no effort or battle on the PP.. The Sedins play the most on the PP...Sedins should take a hard look in the mirror.

What you see as a lack of effort by the Sedins, I see as the twins having to play (some nights) 20 minutes because we're almost always behind with a pop-gun offense and depleted line-up. The Sedins are now (I believe) 35. They can't match the pace of defensive specialists a decade younger 26 shifts out of 26. Never the fastest skaters, the shifts they look bad on isn't a reflection of their character, it just means they're (justifiably) exhausted, at times.

 

No such excuse for 19 - 22 year-olds getting far fewer minutes, and needing to make an impact to stick in the bigs. Virtanen, McCann, Grenier, Etem have mailed it in lately. Unacceptable, especially considering -- in Etem's case -- he's playing for his NHL life.

 

I also think Daniel's frustration -- and I know it's just speculation -- may have something to do with a lack of preparation at practice and away from the rink. It has to be remembered that for these rookies, they're largely clueless on just how focussed a player needs to be on- AND off-ice for (at least) seven months a year, and then to take a weekend off before hitting the gym consistently/eating right etc  in the off-season.

 

Bottom line, I have no trouble listening to Daniel tee off. I'd wager both brothers are saying the same things directly to those involved.

[spook007]

5 hours ago, LarionovtoBure said:

THIS REACTION WAS PURPOSEFUL, IT WAS A MESSAGE TO MANY OF THE YOUNG PLAYERS ON THIS TEAM ABOUT WHAT THE CANUCKS EXPECT, WHAT THE SEDINS AND WHAT THE VETS LIKE BURROWS AND HAMMER EXPECT FROM THEIR TEAMMATES.

 

Secondly, they are LEARNING TO BE PRO'S AND HOW TO CARRY THEMSELVES ON AND OFF THE ICE THE 'RIGHT WAY'.  That includes rest, diet, fitness, mental prepardness for games and PRACTICE, that your focus is 100% 24/7 on being a better player, teammate, Canuck, improving and pushing yourself to be your best. This is what separates guys who are average and don't last from guys like the Twins/Jagr/Crosby, etc.

 

 

Great read Larionov +1

Who knows, maybe Kassians issues made the leadership of this team jump in instantly, instead of sitting back.. Not suggesting anything, but nothing wrong with guidance of young people. Rich or poor...

[ruututuutu]

6 hours ago, LarionovtoBure said:

Yep Daniel and Burr and Willie just went off publicly on a Hart Trophy Winner, an Art Ross winner, their Captain, an eventual hall of famer lol you got it!

 

Oh sorry, and the guy that made what, 50 saves the night Daniel went off and said the guy stood on his head? Yeppers!

 

Oh and ya, its all because I wish I could party with Biebs you got me...sigh

 

Night night little guy! Seems like there is a reason you have a -20 rating....

Gear down big rig...it's called sarcasm.

[wallstreetamigo]

11 hours ago, LaBamba said:

+\- only means something if you are trying to swing an argument in your favour. 

That was my point though. It is easy to look at one factor and make a conclusion but the combination of factors is what gives context. Only pointing out points per game does not tell the whole story about any player's effectiveness in the playoffs especially when their +/- is off the charts bad. 

[Rush17]

Canucks morning skate might be an indication of how the vets are taking this.

 

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Morning skate underway in Winnipeg. Only Sedins, Higgins, Hamhuis & Bartkowski not on the ice.

 

Only Burr and Tanev on the ice in terms former 2011 experienced vets.  Curious if thats a way of letting the youngsters work it out themselves.  Let them have sometime together with the help of burr, tanev, and dorsett.  Sedins, Higgins, Hammer all skipping practice.  

[LaBamba]

9 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

That was my point though. It is easy to look at one factor and make a conclusion but the combination of factors is what gives context. Only pointing out points per game does not tell the whole story about any player's effectiveness in the playoffs especially when their +/- is off the charts bad. 

Those damn empty netters 

[snucks]

Maybe they need more coaches. It seems the current group can't motivate the players. Or is it something else. Of course tanking is the game plan is it not ?

[TheCammer]

25 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Canucks morning skate might be an indication of how the vets are taking this.

 

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Morning skate underway in Winnipeg. Only Sedins, Higgins, Hamhuis & Bartkowski not on the ice.

 

Only Burr and Tanev on the ice in terms former 2011 experienced vets.  Curious if thats a way of letting the youngsters work it out themselves.  Let them have sometime together with the help of burr, tanev, and dorsett.  Sedins, Higgins, Hammer all skipping practice.  

That seems like an extremely curious decision by the Vets to skip the morning skate if you are trying to set an example of "hard work"

[wallstreetamigo]

30 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Those damn empty netters 

Lol more likely the Sedins have a lot of their production in the playoffs in the PP and give up more 5 on 5.

 

The Sedins are not nor have they ever been great playoff players. They get their points but they literally do nothing else that separates guys like Toews, Kopitar, etc as top line players who make a difference in the playoffs. Points are not everything in the playoffs. 

 

Ask yourself this: If you had your choice of a top center and a top left winger to take into the playoffs with you would Daniel and Henrik be anywhere near your top choices? They wouldn't be mine. Regular season for sure they would be close. But not for the playoffs.

[oldnews]

41 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

That was my point though. It is easy to look at one factor and make a conclusion but the combination of factors is what gives context. Only pointing out points per game does not tell the whole story about any player's effectiveness in the playoffs especially when their +/- is off the charts bad. 

Your point was as weak as the original post you defend - a weak (ironically trolling) comment about how "soft" the Sedins are.   Grasping for anything you can find, you come up with +/- of all things lol.  You can't be serious.  If that's the best you could come up with, you should have just left it alone as opposed to relying on a fail that virtually any informed hockey fan does not consider of any use, particularly in isolation, as you've presented it.

 

And then you're back to talk about the "combination of factors / giving context"?  Derp.  You've done nothing of the sort.  Context is not your strong suit - that would be taking liberty in narratives.

 

Aside from being near ppg playoff players, as if that is not significant considering typical drop off in production in the playoffs  - their puck possession numbers are off the charts  - indicators as consistent as they are - and there really is no better indicator of Sedin effectiveness than their scoring and their puck possession - that is what defines them as players.

 

Henrik's playoff corsi

+16.06

+30.82

+18.30

+17.86

+12.81

 

Daniel's 

+15.90

+22.84

+19.36

+12.16

             

 

[wallstreetamigo]

I have never said the Sedins are soft players. Quite the contrary actually. They are tough players. They are just not playoff difference makers when they need to be. They are not clutch players in the playoffs. That doesn't mean they suck though. 

 

And advanced stats are not the end all and be all either. Lol at the results of our team over their careers in the playoffs. One good run with them as top line centers (based on probably the weakest path to the cup in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that the west has seen in many years) and the rest of the time underachievement, choking, and disappointment. Unfirtunateky that is their playoff legacy as top line players in the NHL. Great regular season players though.

 

and you do know that puck possession that doesn't lead to taking the puck to the net or scoring significantly more than the opposition does 5 on 5 really doesn't mean much, right?

 

Have you not seen teams like LA and CHI be perfectly happy to let the Sedins cycle the puck around the perimeter and shoot from the outside while just clogging up the front so the puck never gets there or is an easy save if it does? That is how teams shut down the Sedins effectiveness in the playoffs. 

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

Of all the stupid arguments and wastes of time, this one may actually take the cake.

[johngould21]

21 minutes ago, TheCammer said:

That seems like an extremely curious decision by the Vets to skip the morning skate if you are trying to set an example of "hard work"

Just putting this out there. Hank should be shut down for what it's worth.

[snucks]

This is a dumb thread in that it is expected some players won't be motivated now that they are out of the play offs. On the other hand , shouldn't the coaches, all 3 of them, be motivating them. Is the team tired of seeing Vey's developement WD's main concern ? As well players usually put in an effort because their career is at stake if they don't. My theory is that some guys are tuning out the coach, so that affects the whole team. Its a heck of a predicament isn't it ?

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Of all the stupid arguments and wastes of time, this one may actually take the cake.

People need to realize that saying the Sedins are not clutch playoff players is actually pretty fair comment and does not mean I think they are terrible players.

 

The biggest waste of time is trying to pretend that the Sedins are something they are not and have historically never been.

 

Controlling the puck on the perimeter does not equal being an effective clutch playoff player. You still have to do more with it than the opponent does and also not let guys like Marchand, Bolland, etc get in your head and render you ineffective at key times. If you rely on getting on the PP to score in the playoffs then we have all seen what happens when you can't adjust to the other teams adjustments. 

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

Just stop.

You rely on the most ludicrous metric, plus/minus, come back in the next post to dismiss actual puck possession, and then revert to your tired, boring and declining narratives.   Your inability to grasp actual, objective outcomes is a good indicator of the value of the rest of your overstated opinions.

Waste of time.

 

[wallstreetamigo]

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Just stop.

You rely on the most ludicrous metric, plus/minus, come back in the next post to dismiss actual puck possession, and then revert to your tired, boring and declining narratives.   Your inability to grasp actual, objective outcomes is a good indicator of the value of the rest of your overstated opinions.

Waste of time.

 

Then stop responding. Last time I checked this was a forum for discussing the Canucks and you don't own it or run it. So that means I have as much right to post here as you do.

 

If you think the Sedins are clutch playoff players that's all anyone needs to know about your hockey analysis outside of using only advanced stats as the end all and be all. Here is the only stat that matters: We have choked with them as leaders and first liners every year except one on the playoffs (and we almost choked on the first round then had easy pickings in the 2nd and 3rd rounds then choked in the finals). Not exactly what I would call clutch.

 

Puck possession metrics do not equal playoff effectiveness though. Because other teams are happy to let the Sedins waste two minutes cycling the puck for a weak sauce shot from the perimeter. They do it all the time in the playoffs. 

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

Strawmen and sidestepping are just more wastes of time.

 

On 6/24/2013 at 7:37 PM, wallstreetamigo said:

That is not to say the Sedins are not good leaders, I think they are in their own way. I just don't think they are the type to point a finger at others all that easily. That is a good quality but teams need someone who can do that.

 

There you go.  The Sedins are pointing the fingers you wanted.  Nothing for you to complain about - you should be here praising them for demanding "accountability."

Cheers.

[hockeyking]

5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Then stop responding. Last time I checked this was a forum for discussing the Canucks and you don't own it or run it. So that means I have as much right to post here as you do.

 

If you think the Sedins are clutch playoff players that's all anyone needs to know about your hockey analysis outside of using only advanced stats as the end all and be all. Here is the only stat that matters: We have choked with them as leaders and first liners every year except one on the playoffs (and we almost choked on the first round then had easy pickings in the 2nd and 3rd rounds). Not exactly what I would call clutch.

by that logic the past five years any player not on chicago or LA are all not clutch. Also it means nobody on the caunucks is clutch not even one person because the same argument can be applied to any team or player that hasn't one a cup.

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Then stop responding. Last time I checked this was a forum for discussing the Canucks and you don't own it or run it. So that means I have as much right to post here as you do.

 

If you think the Sedins are clutch playoff players that's all anyone needs to know about your hockey analysis outside of using only advanced stats as the end all and be all. Here is the only stat that matters: We have choked with them as leaders and first liners every year except one on the playoffs (and we almost choked on the first round then had easy pickings in the 2nd and 3rd rounds). Not exactly what I would call clutch.

I remember Jonathan Toews yelling at his teammate's, when the Hawks were down 0-3 in that series: "we need to [play] to expose them for who they are."  I wonder if that comment was directed to the leadership of the Twins?