Post Game Comment: "Daniel Sedin: "From some guys right now, the effort is not there."

[THERETOOL]

5 minutes ago, Wild Sean Monahan said:

Yeah, they're far from the first youngsters to get themselves into that sort of shenanigans and they won't be the last. But before long they need to realize they're in a pretty special place that thousands (millions?) of people dream of. Their line of work isn't "normal" for a 19 year old and requires exceptional preparation too.n They don't need to look  much further than Zack Kassian to see what excessive partying can do to a career.

totally agree 

[riffraff]

6 hours ago, oldnews said:

Interesting perspective.  So almost is good enough?    

He shot his mouth off - with nothing to lose really - but he failed.

I guess close counts though.  

By that standard, the wounded Canucks forced a game 7, almost won the Stanley Cup.  Good enough for me.

Cmon old news.

 

towes is s straight up champion.  Stanley cups.  Gold medals.  He's easily the best captain since messier.  Crosby even turned the duties over to him in international play.  The guy does it all and never takes a night off.

 

not taking anything from the Sedins/Henrik. But Jonathan Towes is on a higher level.

[wallstreetamigo]

7 hours ago, Barry_Wilkins said:

Have you considered that it's possible for two playoff teams to play hard against one another, yet admit that one of the two still has to lose? Defeat often isn't ignominious.

 

You said upthread -- in the same post -- that the Sedins were tough, but (next paragraph) that they were chokers. You seem confused, or deliberately inflammatory, to what end I'm not sure.

 

Also, do you consider Daniel and Henrik's team support on the same level as that of Toews and Kane, or Doughty and Kopitar?

1. At no point in the Hawks/Canucks rivalry years did I think that. At times perhaps but so many huge losses at key times (same as against them in 2011 and also Boston inthe finals).

 

2. What does being tough players have to do with being choke artists in the playoffs?

 

3. In 2011 - the only year they went anywhere in the playoffs - we won the Presidents Trophy as people on here keep lauding as a great accomplishment. The depth on our team was pretty darn good, probably at least as good as those two teams when they won their cups. People are saying that the Sedins in the playoffs are equal to those two guys for each team. I completely disagree.

[Barry_Wilkins]

15 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

1. At no point in the Hawks/Canucks rivalry years did I think that. At times perhaps but so many huge losses at key times (same as against them in 2011 and also Boston inthe finals).

 

2. What does being tough players have to do with being choke artists in the playoffs?

 

3. In 2011 - the only year they went anywhere in the playoffs - we won the Presidents Trophy as people on here keep lauding as a great accomplishment. The depth on our team was pretty darn good, probably at least as good as those two teams when they won their cups. People are saying that the Sedins in the playoffs are equal to those two guys for each team. I completely disagree.

 

1. Fair enough.

 

2. Because the two statements are antithetical. Tough players -- mentally tough, and the Sedins are that -- don't choke in the playoffs, by definition Their playoff record speaks for itself. Hockey -- much more so than, say, basketball -- depends on depth. Just like we're seeing lately with the Sedins, when a team can concentrate on shutting them down, which is (and was) especially the case in the tighter D of the playoffs, it's tough to score. Yet the Sedins STILL put up points when the focus of the opposition was squarely on them. That speaks volumes to both their toughness AND their non-choker status.

 

3. I guess time dulls most memories. Canucks made it to the finals, then injuries caught up with them. Our D-core was decimated. We see it differently, obviously.

[wallstreetamigo]

39 minutes ago, Barry_Wilkins said:

 

1. Fair enough.

 

2. Because the two statements are antithetical. Tough players -- mentally tough, and the Sedins are that -- don't choke in the playoffs, by definition Their playoff record speaks for itself. Hockey -- much more so than, say, basketball -- depends on depth. Just like we're seeing lately with the Sedins, when a team can concentrate on shutting them down, which is (and was) especially the case in the tighter D of the playoffs, it's tough to score. Yet the Sedins STILL put up points when the focus of the opposition was squarely on them. That speaks volumes to both their toughness AND their non-choker status.

 

3. I guess time dulls most memories. Canucks made it to the finals, then injuries caught up with them. Our D-core was decimated. We see it differently, obviously.

All I see is players like Marchand, Bolland, etc completely getting into the Sedins heads year after year in the playoffs and I question whether or not they are really that mentally tough come playoff time. I understand frustration at being keyed on by those guys but that is why they are paid the big bucks and are the ones carrying the leadership of the team. I think they are good point producers in the playoffs all things considered. I just do not think they are clutch players or warriors in the playoffs. Nothing in their style of game changes cone playoff time. They play pretty much the same as they do in the regular season. They don't have that dynamic that the best clutch players do to be able to elevate their game. They are not physical so they can't help that way. They are not emotional so they do not inspire confidence through their sheer intensity. They are not tenacious defensive players so if they aren't scoring they don't add there either. 

 

I love the Sedins for what they are. I just don't pretend they are something they are not.

[Arrow 1983]

Daniel I would only have 1 question for you. Your comments where said with a 11 games remaining. Why the hell do you care now you are out of the playoffs and playing for nothing Yes Daniel is playing for nothing right now not a playoff spot, not contract, his spot is here next season, you Daniel are playing for nothing except your paycheck. So I ask why do you care now? why not bring this up before Christmas the team wasn't playing well back then. Or after one of the many loses you guys have had at home and have embarrassed yourselves in front of your fans multiple of times. Why do you care now? When you are playing for nothing.

[wallstreetamigo]

My memory is crystal clear too. Injuries played a part of course but that isn't the whole story. Watch game 7 again. They played not to lose, they didn't play to win. There is a huge difference. Clutch players live for the big moments. They don't play like they have already lost.

[Barry_Wilkins]

30 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

Daniel I would only have 1 question for you. Your comments where said with a 11 games remaining. Why the hell do you care now you are out of the playoffs and playing for nothing Yes Daniel is playing for nothing right now not a playoff spot, not contract, his spot is here next season, you Daniel are playing for nothing except your paycheck. So I ask why do you care now? why not bring this up before Christmas the team wasn't playing well back then. Or after one of the many loses you guys have had at home and have embarrassed yourselves in front of your fans multiple of times. Why do you care now? When you are playing for nothing.

Why now? Good, specific reasons. The Sedins have proven throughout the years that they don't fly off the handle with their comments. Many here go the other way, and fault them for their (other) tame responses after losses. You can't have it both ways.

 

But there's a time for everything. Patience -- by the Sedins, coaching, and managament -- seemed to have paid off. After a strugglling season start, and a bad overseas tourney, Virtanen came back and turned it up, playing far better. Engaged, skating, going to specific areas with purpose, putting up some points, hitting to punish. Last three games (4 now) he's been a no-show. Sedin's comments were particularly relevant here. He said that the youngsters have been trying hard for the most past, but that you had to bring it every day. That includes more than actual games, meaning practise and off-ice prep and activities. Deadline passed, injuries happen. Virtanen (and McCann) both realize, for the first time this season, they're here for the season no matter how they play. Most rookies go through something like this, so I'm not too concerned. But that's where tough love comes into it. The coach and the vet leadership group have to then step in and call them on it. Virtanen and McCann, even Grenier and Etem, have to realize they're being assessed for September during the final 10 games. They haven't "made it" at all. Good on Daniel.

 

Far from "playing for nothing", the youngsters are playing for their careers. It's not like they can pull a Yashin yet, and just stay home counting cash.

[Canuck Surfer]

12 hours ago, oldnews said:

 It's time to sit back, enjoy watching the young guys, lower your immediate expectations, be thankful that the fact the draft compensates losing, and look at the season realistically.

 

[Tom Sestito]

a realistic season is what sth's were told by management, 100 point team that is better than last year's

 

we are not smarter than management, we should expect what we are told and follow this like true fans do

[Baggins]

53 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

a realistic season is what sth's were told by management, 100 point team that is better than last year's

 

we are not smarter than management, we should expect what we are told and follow this like true fans do

And expectations should be met regardless of circumstances outside their control? Losing Sutter for virtually the entire season, Hamhuis and Edler having major injuries, Henrik playing injured and missing a stretch, and add in Sbisa, Tanev, Hansen, and Vrbata for good measure. A team heavy with prospects shouldn't be affected by major key injuries at all. Good teams with reasonable veteran depth would have some struggles under those circumstances.

 

You're right, we are not smarter than management. Not very realistic either it seems.

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

My memory is crystal clear too. Injuries played a part of course but that isn't the whole story. Watch game 7 again. They played not to lose, they didn't play to win. There is a huge difference. Clutch players live for the big moments. They don't play like they have already lost.

I don't think it's as crystal clear as you think. The Nucks came out flying in the first period and Thomas shut the door. They out shot the Bruins 37 to 21 and out hit them 47 to 29 in game 7. Is that playing not to lose? Luongo had a clutch (or is that Cloutier) .850 S% that game. The Sedins combined for 5 shots on goal.

 

Our injuries, combined with Thomas' goaltending performance, left us with only one real chance to win the series - Lou playing like a Vezina goalie. Lou did for three games in that series but he played like playoff Cloutier for the other four. Not good when the guy at the other end of the ice put in a Vezina performance every game and the Bruins didn't have anywhere near the number of injuries we had to deal with.

[Tom Sestito]

38 minutes ago, Baggins said:

And expectations should be met regardless of circumstances outside their control? Losing Sutter for virtually the entire season, Hamhuis and Edler having major injuries, Henrik playing injured and missing a stretch, and add in Sbisa, Tanev, Hansen, and Vrbata for good measure. A team heavy with prospects shouldn't be affected by major key injuries at all. Good teams with reasonable veteran depth would have some struggles under those circumstances.

 

You're right, we are not smarter than management. Not very realistic either it seems.

i'm not going to disagree with your statement regarding injuries. it's statistically proven that teams with less injuries are more likely to have better seasons.

 

but it's also true that there was terrible miscalculation of the talent level of the roster, and misbelief in a coach who struggles with player deployment. like even with no injuries in the first 15-20 when sutter was here, we were an average 80-85 point team. the fact they thought that even fully healthy, this team was a 100 point, improved team on last year's is shocking.

[Baggins]

15 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

i'm not going to disagree with your statement regarding injuries. it's statistically proven that teams with less injuries are more likely to have better seasons.

 

but it's also true that there was terrible miscalculation of the talent level of the roster, and misbelief in a coach who struggles with player deployment. like even with no injuries in the first 15-20 when sutter was here, we were an average 80-85 point team. the fact they thought that even fully healthy, this team was a 100 point, improved team on last year's is shocking.

I believe had we had similar injuries to last season this seasons team would have been in the playoffs. Even just having Sutter for the entire season would have been huge difference. When you have to put prospects into roles they're not ready for there's a good chance your fortunes are going to go south.

[THERETOOL]

1 minute ago, Baggins said:

I believe had we had similar injuries to last season this seasons team would have been in the playoffs. Even just having Sutter for the entire season would have been huge difference. When you have to put prospects into roles they're not ready for there's a good chance your fortunes are going to go south.

it would have made a difference yes ..  not enough to make us a real contender .  I just don't understand how people could think we were actually close ??    We may have been good enough to sneak into the playoffs ..  To me , thats not good enough 

[appleboy]

3 hours ago, Tom Sestito said:

a realistic season is what sth's were told by management, 100 point team that is better than last year's

 

we are not smarter than management, we should expect what we are told and follow this like true fans do

It was actually not an unrealistic expectation.

 

2014/2015

 

Burrows -   33 points

Higgins  -   36 points

Vrbata    -   63 points  

Bonino   -   39 points    (replaced with Sutter)

Total       -  171 points  (Who would have thought that they would drop to only 58 points for this year)

 

Plus the injuries to Edler,Hamhuis and a growing number of players. We have solid goal tending but the rest just didn't come together. We would have still got killed in the playoffs so it is all for the best.

 

 

[nucklehead]

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 11:49 PM, Bob.Loblaw said:

Ah, a little passive agressiveness.  Doesn't get any more Vancouver than that!

It's called diplomatic.

Not sure whatever happened to that concept...

[nucklehead]

21 minutes ago, appleboy said:

 

Plus the injuries to Edler,Hamhuis and a growing number of players. We have solid goal tending but the rest just didn't come together. We would have still got killed in the playoffs so it is all for the best.

 

 

As a Klingon I have to disagree. There is no honor in tankiness

[appleboy]

4 minutes ago, nucklehead said:

As a Klingon I have to disagree. There is no honor in tankiness

A real "Klingon" would appreciate a tank. The bigger the tank  the better. You must be an impostor. 

[Baggins]

7 hours ago, Lulover88 said:

it would have made a difference yes ..  not enough to make us a real contender .  I just don't understand how people could think we were actually close ??    We may have been good enough to sneak into the playoffs ..  To me , thats not good enough 

Who said anything about being a contender? Name a team that became a contender in their second year of a rebuild.

 

The current goal, per Linden and Benning, is stay competitive for a playoff spot while rebuilding. I don't think this team has played as many rookies in one season in franchise history as they had to this year. Take away a few of those major injuries and this team would have been competing for a playoff spot. That's the point I'm making.

 

Btw, I hate the attitude that if you're not a contender you need to tank. You'll spend a lot of unhappy seasons with that kind of attitude.