Plum Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Might just be an experience thing. There are guys who are in their 30s around the league are nowhere as strong as they used to be but they can win puck battles against younger players because of their experience. Yeah I bet Horvat was winning puck battles fairly easy in the OHL, now he's in the NHL where it is alot harder. Might be a little scared to get too physical because he's just 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Plum; Horvat does well on the boards but does get beaten at times. The thing I notice is that he rarely goes down. Compare that to Kassian who does get knocked down. People often compare Kassian's potential to Bertuzzi. One commonality with those two was they both went down a lot. Not knocking Kassian just observing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Plum; Horvat does well on the boards but does get beaten at times. The thing I notice is that he rarely goes down. Compare that to Kassian who does get knocked down. People often compare Kassian's potential to Bertuzzi. One commonality with those two was they both went down a lot. Not knocking Kassian just observing. Horvat has those Crosby like legs that can help him protect the puck, I'd just like to see him lay the body a little bit more or try and get more aggressive in puck battles. I know Horvat isn't much of a hitter (he isn't soft) but in those puck battles he needs to battle hard against the vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Linden Vey FO% playing center in the last 6 games with Richardson out: 33.33% (FLA), 83.33% (TBL), 66.67% (ANA), 57.14% (BUF), 36.36% (MIN), 57.14% (WPG) Bo Horvat FO% playing center in the last 6 games with Richardson out: 33.33% (FLA), 36.36% (TBL), 43.75% (ANA), 64.29% (BUF), 30.00% (MIN), 55.56% (WPG) Linden Vey had a better FO% in 4 games, tied with Bo in 1 game and did worse than Bo in 1 game. Bo had 4 games below 50% while Linden had 2 games below 50%. So years ahead might be a slight overstatement. I also think you are underselling Vey defensively to make Horvat look better in favour of your argument. Am I saying Vey is better than Horvat defensively and on faceoffs? Absolutely not - that would be silly. It would be as silly as those who called Horvat our best faceoff man throughout the year because he has the best FO% on the team. Vey is taking some of the sheltered/limited draws that Horvat was taking and he's holding his own pretty well. On the other hand, Horvat has had to take on some harder draws that Richardson would have taken when he was in the lineup. Since Richardson's been injured, Bo's FO% dropped in the last 7 games and he is now at 51.6%. That being said, Bo is still the only Canuck above 50% on faceoffs, and as a 19-year-old, that's amazing. He's looking better every game. You just have to be patient and let him develop. I agree. I think Vey has been good enough holding the fort with Richardson out. It's true that WD plays favorites but it's not like Vey has completely sucked; his line looked quite good on some shifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
people please Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I been saying for about a month now that Wille needs to give this guy more playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Both Vey and Horvat looked very good tonight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
people please Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Both Vey and Horvat looked very good tonight. Vey made couple of nice passes but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 IMO Vey has top 6 potential. He is getting more confident with the puck. Not there yet but progressing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Both Vey and Horvat looked very good tonight. Vey made couple of nice passes but that's it. It's interesting what people see. Some on CDC don't believe in possession stats. I think they mean something, though it often takes some digging to decide exactly what. They tend to be a pretty good measure of whether the team is carrying play or being hemmed in its own end while a player is on the ice. I tend to trust possession stats more than most people's recollections including, usually, my own. Stats are imperfect as well, but they aren't subject to my mind noticing what I'm most interested in and missing things that to me were of less interest. Last night Vey's CF%Rel was + 0.70. Horvat's was -15.35. So, Vey's teammates' results were, on average, pretty much the same territorially with him as they were without him. Horvat's teammates' results were worse with him than when they played with others. Their offensive zone start % was the same at 50%. I haven't seen details on the strength of opponents last night. Source: http://naturalstattrick.com/game.php?season=20142015&game=20767 Note: Possession stats in one game are not a good predictor of future performance. Players have good and bad games. There's also an element of luck that is relatively larger in small sample sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 corsi is merely a comparison of shot attempts, so a quick fleury against your goalie at the beginning of a shift before you get possession, and then a long cycle game in the attacking end with just a single shot attempt would result in a negative corsi for that shift, even though you possessed the puck for the majority of the shift. like you said, there are problems with every stat, especially from a single game sample size, which is why very little should be read into single game advanced stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Linden Vey FO% playing center in the last 6 games with Richardson out: 33.33% (FLA), 83.33% (TBL), 66.67% (ANA), 57.14% (BUF), 36.36% (MIN), 57.14% (WPG) Bo Horvat FO% playing center in the last 6 games with Richardson out: 33.33% (FLA), 36.36% (TBL), 43.75% (ANA), 64.29% (BUF), 30.00% (MIN), 55.56% (WPG) Linden Vey had a better FO% in 4 games, tied with Bo in 1 game and did worse than Bo in 1 game. Bo had 4 games below 50% while Linden had 2 games below 50%. So years ahead might be a slight overstatement. I also think you are underselling Vey defensively to make Horvat look better in favour of your argument. Am I saying Vey is better than Horvat defensively and on faceoffs? Absolutely not - that would be silly. It would be as silly as those who called Horvat our best faceoff man throughout the year because he has the best FO% on the team. Vey is taking some of the sheltered/limited draws that Horvat was taking and he's holding his own pretty well. On the other hand, Horvat has had to take on some harder draws that Richardson would have taken when he was in the lineup. Since Richardson's been injured, Bo's FO% dropped in the last 7 games and he is now at 51.6%. That being said, Bo is still the only Canuck above 50% on faceoffs, and as a 19-year-old, that's amazing. He's looking better every game. You just have to be patient and let him develop. Showing bare percentages is actually quite misleading. I can't seem to find the game by game splits, but over the course of their respective seasons, Bo Horvat takes on average 2x as many faceoffs per game and in aggregate as Vey does. Horvat also faces stronger face off competition relative to Vey who isn't being deployed naturally as a center. Vey is being deployed as a Winger who is taking faceoffs when the primary Centerman on his line (iirc that's Bonino) is tossed from the circle. When you factor in the circumstances, then Horvat's performance is significantly more impactful than Vey's, as far as face offs are concerned, also take into account that my general feeling (haven't looked up the numbers) but Vey gets significantly more offensive zone starts than Horvat, which again makes Horvat's numbers far more appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Showing bare percentages is actually quite misleading. I can't seem to find the game by game splits, but over the course of their respective seasons, Bo Horvat takes on average 2x as many faceoffs per game and in aggregate as Vey does. Horvat also faces stronger face off competition relative to Vey who isn't being deployed naturally as a center. Vey is being deployed as a Winger who is taking faceoffs when the primary Centerman on his line (iirc that's Bonino) is tossed from the circle. When you factor in the circumstances, then Horvat's performance is significantly more impactful than Vey's, as far as face offs are concerned, also take into account that my general feeling (haven't looked up the numbers) but Vey gets significantly more offensive zone starts than Horvat, which again makes Horvat's numbers far more appealing. Vey does not get significantly more offensive zone starts than Bo - they get about the same. Horvat actually doesn't get that many defensive zone starts at all, but I didn't expect you to know that. And I don't think you understood that post at all. Firstly, I wasn't comparing the faceoff stats throughout the year - I was comparing the faceoff stats of the last 6 games prior to last night that both Vey and Horvat were playing center as a result of Richardson's injury. So Vey wasn't coming in from the wing to take draws in those games - he was the center taking draws on his line every time. And in those six games, Bo did not take 2X the draws that Vey took - he took a few more than Vey (understandable - as Bo is still better), but he did not take 2X draws when Vey was also playing center. Also, I do point out in that post that Horvat takes more draws and that I think Horvat is still better than Vey on faceoffs: Am I saying Vey is better than Horvat defensively and on faceoffs? Absolutely not - that would be silly. It would be as silly as those who called Horvat our best faceoff man throughout the year because he has the best FO% on the team. Vey is taking some of the sheltered/limited draws that Horvat was taking and he's holding his own pretty well. The purpose of that post was to demonstrate that Linden Vey evidently worked tremendously hard on his faceoff skills over the course of the year while he has been playing on the wing and even scratched in some games. Vey at the beginning of the year was nowhere near the FO% he has been posting as a center in the absence of Richie right now. It was to point out that, just like how Horvat has over the course of the year, Vey has worked hard and improved on his weaknesses and has progressed well in his development. So to end, I'll throw in last night's FO% vs SJS as well: Linden Vey - 56% (9/16) Bo Horvat - 50% (7/14) Not bad for a guy who is apparently "years" behind Bo in faceoffs, according to timberz21 Edited February 6, 2015 by Dasein 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 # Pos Player Off. Def. Neu. TOT 7 R VEY, LINDEN 2-5 / 40% 2-4 / 50% 5-7 / 71% 9-16 / 56% vs. 10 C DESJARDINS, ANDREW 1-1 / 100% 1-1 / 100% vs. 15 C SHEPPARD, JAMES 0-1 / 0% 3-3 / 100% 3-4 / 75% vs. 19 C THORNTON, JOE 0-1 / 0% 0-1 / 0% vs. 39 C COUTURE, LOGAN 0-1 / 0% 1-2 / 50% 1-3 / 33% 2-6 / 33% vs. 50 C TIERNEY, CHRIS 1-1 / 100% 1-2 / 50% 1-1 / 100% 3-4 / 75% 53 C HORVAT, BO 2-5 / 40% 3-5 / 60% 2-4 / 50% 7-14 / 50% vs. 8 C PAVELSKI, JOE 0-1 / 0% 0-1 / 0% vs. 15 C SHEPPARD, JAMES 1-2 / 50% 0-1 / 0% 0-1 / 0% 1-4 / 25% vs. 39 C COUTURE, LOGAN 1-1 / 100% 1-1 / 100% vs. 50 C TIERNEY, CHRIS 1-3 / 33% 2-2 / 100% 2-3 / 67% 5-8 / 63%in case anyone wanted to see their performance broken down with some more detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxieMan98 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Am I the only one that thinks that Bo can be 1st line C in the NHL? The kid has a great hockey IQ and we all know that there are many 2way centermen that are in the league, that are 1st liners Edited February 7, 2015 by MaxieMan98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsiders Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Am I the only one that thinks that Bo can be 1st line C in the NHL? The kid has a great hockey IQ and we all know that there are many 2way centermen that are in the league, that are 1st liners he is certainly playing like he has first line potential. He's speed is the biggest asset to him right now. His skating is great now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violator Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Am I the only one that thinks that Bo can be 1st line C in the NHL? The kid has a great hockey IQ and we all know that there are many 2way centermen that are in the league, that are 1st liners Depends how long we have the sedins longer he waits just assures he will turn into another kesler and get traded down the road.Might even find another number one center canucks need a young talented line more than anything the next number one line that can put up a minimum three points every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven pounds soft Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Depends how long we have the sedins longer he waits just assures he will turn into another kesler and get traded down the road.Might even find another number one center canucks need a young talented line more than anything the next number one line that can put up a minimum three points every game. Your logic is flawless , not to mention your gramnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violator Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Your logic is flawless , not to mention your gramnar A different opinion on the Internet such a travesty. Atleast you just went straight to personal attacks instead of a rebutall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Am I the only one that thinks that Bo can be 1st line C in the NHL? The kid has a great hockey IQ and we all know that there are many 2way centermen that are in the league, that are 1st liners I agree, I see him being the sandpaper to a very good first line one day. Like a David Backes. Give him 2 good wingers and you'll have a very solid first line. But that's only my opinion. He just does so many little things right that would complement a line that takes risks to generate offence. Edited February 8, 2015 by WonderTwinPowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Killer Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Can't believe how much Bo has stepped up lately, with limited minutes. He's been amazing in the 200 ft game, clearly able to hang with the big guys if given a chance. It's exciting having him and our other prospects coming up. I said it when he was drafted, and i'll say it again, this is the type of player you win Stanley Cups with. Willie seems like he's putting alot more faith in him lately. I'm confident that by the end of this year, we'll see Bo get a try out on the 3rd or even 2nd line. Earn your minutes. Edited February 8, 2015 by Legend Killer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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