Thanks, Jonathan Toews

[gerry35]

Funny how all the solutions to "global warming" and other fear based propaganda is:

1) give up your freedoms

2) pay more tax

 

Sorry I just don't believe any of it. If people like Al Gore, Bill Nye, Leonardo DiCaprio, David Suzuki and now maybe even Jonathan Toews really believed in it their lifestyles would show it, they would live differently but they don't. The solutions they have to "global warming" only are for the masses not the elites like themselves.

[Kragar]

1 hour ago, S'all Good Man said:

Oh for sure Gore used the spin to his advantage, he may have been trying to raise his profile for another run at the presidency based on a new fear. 

 

But that doesn't negate that legitimate regular old science folks are tracking sea level increases every year, and higher temperatures. And then there's quality of life in our largest cities. 

 

Regardless of spin, we're likely going to have some serious issues to deal with very soon. To deny it and do nothing will leave us in a pretty bad spot don't you think? 

I don't know about "very soon".  

 

Sea levels rising does not seem as big a concern as some make it out to be.  The seas were rising naturally, and were expected to.  Perhaps faster than it should, but it was still going to happen.  Rather than putting excessive resources towards 'green' power, etc., we should prepare and think forward on the inevitability that the world at some point is going to have higher temps, sea levels, and CO2 levels, again all of which were happening without our help.  At this point, I suspect our engineering skills can deal with most of what nature has in mind... heck, those living in the Netherlands region have been dealing with that for centuries.  

 

Some cities in India and China have serious air pollution issues.  L.A., famous for its smog, used to be pretty bad, but there have been serious improvements since the 70's & 80's, and I suspect even at it's worst it was still better than Beijing and a number of other Asian cities today.  I can easily get behind fixing pollution problems like that, but people like Gore and Bill Nye make it seem like the impacts of our daily living are just as bad, and that is misleading.  Recycling and smarter uses of our resources are great concepts.  Rich people and corporations buying carbon credits is not, as they're just making the pollution (and often the cost) someone else's problem.  We need responsible solutions, not the multitude of stupid laws that impact the lives of ordinary people.

 

I fully appreciate the research and products of people like Elon Musk, and I am not against green research at all, so long as it is done responsibly.  Governments throwing money at companies hoping they will do something useful is not responsible.  And don't ask my how tired I am of being told by people who live in mansions with heated swimming pools before they hop in another private jet that it is wrong to have a gas-fueled car, or that 100W incandescent bulbs in the home are killing the planet.

 

IMO there is way too much emphasis on stopping our current way of life when so much of what we are experiencing was going to happen anyway, albeit decades or centuries down the road.  Without the Industrial Revolution (which basically started humanity's significant impact on the climate), we are just the latest dinosaur herd waiting to get wiped out.  While we as a global society have done plenty of not-insignificant damage to the world, I don't believe it is as dire as some make it out to be.  Arguably the most horrific damage caused by man at one time, the atomic bombs dropped on Japan, are not a significant health issue as many expected.  Studies are showing that the health impacts on the children of the bomb survivors are negligible, and the two cities are clearly thriving.  Yes, a good many of those who did survive the blast had health issues as a result, but afterward, the cities are not teeming with mutants or abnormal cancer rates, either.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160811120353.htm

 

Our scientific advances give us opportunities to reduce the impact and recovery time of natural catastrophes.  They also give us the knowledge (and hopefully the ingenuity and ability) to deal with our mistakes when they come up.  Any hope of finding a way off this planet in the event of a global life-ending asteroid (etc.) impact is not possible without splitting the atom and any downstream research our scientists perform.  Maybe we never will find our way to another planet capable of supporting human life, but if we don't try, humanity's death is inevitable, regardless of any anthropomorphic climate change.

[Nuxfanabroad]

HEY! Groovy kids..we hit FOUR pages!! All dedicated to the topic that some famous pro athlete commented on, which many (do/absolutely don't) believe he should be chimin' in about!

 

I figure we got only ONE inhabitable planet for us to absolutely FUBAR like there's no tomorrow, so why the heck shouldn't we all blather on about it?

 

Personally, I believe climate disruption/change is positively a serious problem, & I'm 99.whatever % certain it's been badly exacerbated by humanity's stripping of resources, burning FF's, & other senseless acts, manifested within Industrial Civ.

 

That said, not getting into the "blame-game", as we're all born into this set of living arrangements, & it's pretty damned tough to try & opt out. It's gone way beyond that, & time's too precious to dither away, pointing fingers.

 

To those who absoluely disagree with my viewpoint, I don't bear any grudge/malice, etc...There are many reasons for myriad views on this important matter. All I can do here is give Toews a sincere thumbs-up.

[gerry35]

When I talk about completely not believing media and celebrities my beef is with them not the general masses including those on this thread who believe. They (the media and celebrities and pseudo scientists) have been proven over and over again to have lied so why should we believe anything they have to say? When are they lying and when aren't they? They get tuned out and even if they are right about a few things their credibility is destroyed. 

 

Those of you who believe in "climate change" what changes have you personally made to combat the situation? Have you started growing your own food? Have you stopped travelling long distances? Do you go fishing and get fish for yourself locally? Do you hunt to put meat on the table? Many can't say yes to any of these questions (and yes our family does all these things), maybe some of you can say yes we have changed our unsustainable lifestyle. 

 

My point is athletes and celebrities are only virtue signalling and have no intention of giving up their lifestyles, they really don't believe because if they did their lifestyle would show it. They want us, the peons to change while they continue with living a life of luxury.

[Gaudette Celly]

On 2017-06-06 at 7:45 AM, S'all Good Man said:

 

none of those things are related.... for things to be how you claim, every climate scientist in the world world be colluding to "fix" the temperature and sea level measurements. That's just not a credible position Wink.

 

There was also an actual issue vs. bs spin to all of the things you mention that did require our attention. Just because some particular group tries to spin something doesn't mean there isn't a base of truth to an issue we need to act on.

 

If we ran on corporate spin we wouldn't be wearing seat belts and still be driving exploding Pinto's.

1. Agrumentum ad populum, and fallacious -- simply stating "there's no debate, it's settled, everyone agrees" and repeating it ad nauseum does not make it true.  That's simply psychological programming and propaganda, not factual representation let alone reasoned debate.

2. The most effective lies are always couched or framed in a great deal of truth, because they work best that way.  The best liars have known this for a long time.

3. What "corporate spin"?  These are easily-verifiable facts.

 

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

1. Agrumentum ad populum, and fallacious -- simply stating "there's no debate, it's settled, everyone agrees" and repeating it ad nauseum does not make it true.  That's simply psychological programming and propaganda, not factual representation let alone reasoned debate.

2. The most effective lies are always couched or framed in a great deal of truth, because they work best that way.  The best liars have known this for a long time.

3. What "corporate spin"?  These are easily-verifiable facts.

 

so are temperature and sea level measurements. 

 

And no its not ad populum, no one said there wasn't debate or in full agreement on the mechanism, just that the actual measurements are showing increases. Science isn't about getting everyone to agree its about seeking the truth and always debating and refining your current understanding. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

4 hours ago, gerry35 said:

When I talk about completely not believing media and celebrities my beef is with them not the general masses including those on this thread who believe. They (the media and celebrities and pseudo scientists) have been proven over and over again to have lied so why should we believe anything they have to say? When are they lying and when aren't they? They get tuned out and even if they are right about a few things their credibility is destroyed. 

 

Those of you who believe in "climate change" what changes have you personally made to combat the situation? Have you started growing your own food? Have you stopped travelling long distances? Do you go fishing and get fish for yourself locally? Do you hunt to put meat on the table? Many can't say yes to any of these questions (and yes our family does all these things), maybe some of you can say yes we have changed our unsustainable lifestyle. 

 

My point is athletes and celebrities are only virtue signalling and have no intention of giving up their lifestyles, they really don't believe because if they did their lifestyle would show it. They want us, the peons to change while they continue with living a life of luxury.

Gerry, It's a worthwhile point that there's a lot of hypocrisy in human behaviour. Deep down, prob 95% of us wanna live like 70's Rock stars! Don't know where the blame/guilt starts & ends anymore. I see a snowball rolling down a hill, & gaining steam..don't really care who points that out, at this juncture.

 

At least Toews doesn't spend his summers like them crazy Kanes! :^)

[Gaudette Celly]

21 hours ago, gerry35 said:

Funny how all the solutions to "global warming" and other fear based propaganda is:

1) give up your freedoms

2) pay more tax

 

Sorry I just don't believe any of it. If people like Al Gore, Bill Nye, Leonardo DiCaprio, David Suzuki and now maybe even Jonathan Toews really believed in it their lifestyles would show it, they would live differently but they don't. The solutions they have to "global warming" only are for the masses not the elites like themselves.

Absolute BINGO. We really need to understand what the Hegelian Dialectic is, because it is perhaps the most commonly used-tactic of governments and others to get what they want, when they know they cannot do so by being open or honest about it because it is not in the public's best interest but their own:

 

1. Create a "problem" to cause a public reaction

3. Present the "solution" (what you originally wanted)

3. Public enthusiastically accepts or even demands it, to their own detriment

 

So many examples of this, from Gleiwitz to the Gulf of Tonkin to 911 -- all false-flag operations and all which achieved the desired goals of those in power.  And on this issue, simply THINK about it -- how does a "carbon tax" fix the alleged problem?  How do corporate moneymen trading "carbon credits" (basically futures and derivatives on AIR) to make massive profits benefit anything or anyone but themselves?  Again, this has all been written about since the 1970s; simply look up the Club of Rome and Agenda 21, and countless quotes since then.  It's no big secret.

“We may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrialized civilization to collapse. Isn’t it our responsibility to bring this about?”

Maurice Strong (organized UN climate summit in Rio), 1992

 

“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony … climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”

Christine Stewart (Canadian Minster of the Environment), 1998

 

"The threat of environmental crisis will be the 'international disaster key' that will unlock the New World Order."

Mikhail Gorbachev, 1996

 

“ … one has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. Instead, climate change policy is about how we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth ….”

Ottmar Edenhofer (IPCC), 2010

 

[Gaudette Celly]

22 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

so are temperature and sea level measurements. 

Better check those readings (and HOW they get them) and failed predictions.  Go chat with Al Gore at one of his oceanside mansions, and he'll scare you even more.  Leave your wallet before you go, and he'll promise to save you.  Then go talk with Patrick Moore originally of Greenpeace or the founder of the Weather Channel and see what they have to say about it.

 

Quote

And no its not ad populum, no one said there wasn't debate or in full agreement on the mechanism, just that the actual measurements are showing increases. Science isn't about getting everyone to agree its about seeking the truth and always debating and refining your current understanding. 

Totally WRONG.  This mantra is repeated constantly and incessantly, but not as much anymore because they know most people have been sufficiently conditioned.  They abandoned trying to get "truth" from the getgo, which is why they will never ever openly debate the science.  Try it -- for at least a dozen years now, suggest a factual debate and you'll get "no, the science is settled".

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Better check those readings (and HOW they get them) and failed predictions.  Go chat with Al Gore at one of his oceanside mansions, and he'll scare you even more.  Leave your wallet before you go, and he'll promise to save you.  Then go talk with Patrick Moore originally of Greenpeace or the founder of the Weather Channel and see what they have to say about it.

 

Totally WRONG.  This mantra is repeated constantly and incessantly, but not as much anymore because they know most people have been sufficiently conditioned.  They abandoned trying to get "truth" from the getgo, which is why they will never ever openly debate the science.  Try it -- for at least a dozen years now, suggest a factual debate and you'll get "no, the science is settled".

You can't use the argument that because there's scientific agreement that its some sort of collusion. Scientists agree on a lot of things. Its like arguing germ theory is a scam because most scientists agree thats how we get sick. 

[gerry35]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Gerry, It's a worthwhile point that there's a lot of hypocrisy in human behaviour. Deep down, prob 95% of us wanna live like 70's Rock stars! Don't know where the blame/guilt starts & ends anymore. I see a snowball rolling down a hill, & gaining steam..don't really care who points that out, at this juncture.

 

At least Toews doesn't spend his summers like them crazy Kanes! :^)

Excellent point about him vs Kane lol.