Thanks, Jonathan Toews

[ey40]

On 2017/6/2 at 10:50 PM, Hutton Wink said:

I won't tell you what to believe, but think about why you believe what you do.  Go research for yourself, instead of just believing what government tells you to believe and simply throwing out pejoratives and labels at things you don't even know about, as if that is a meaningful argument.  I used to mindlessly roll my eyes as well, then realized I was lying to myself, pretending I knew everything and denying what I hadn't even investigated.  But in the postmodern world, actually thinking for oneself is evidently an object of scorn.  This particular issue is most amazing, because not only were they caught lying and faking data they even admitted it... yet people still believe and apparently will, no matter what.  It's truly like a blind faith religion.  Bernays, Skinner, Goebbels, Huxley -- they all predicted it and sure enough 1984 has arrived.

So you think global warming is a hoax? Something the media made up?

[Salmonberries]

I thought this thread was about this forum's @Toews haha.

[Toews]

1 hour ago, Salmonberries said:

I thought this thread was about this forum's @Toews haha.

Its flattering that you thought of me first but I enjoy keeping a low profile on here. So no threads dedicated to me.

[DeltaSwede]

To sit in front of your computer and deny what 97% of the WORLDS scientists are ALL IN AGREEMENT WITH. Balls of steel. 

 

Flat earth. 

 

Aliens built the statue of liberty. 

 

The entire world community is on board with this.... the entire world knows this is happening.. there is proof it is happening. 

 

"they took his job, I drive a f1500 truck and sleep with my sisters cousin" type of behaviour. 

[By sea and land]

It should be about climate change but in this case it's not.  Trump is fulfilling a campaign promise to pull out of this non binding agreement to save his country Trillions of dollars for the American tax payer and to keep his vision on track for a prosperous America again.  

 

Love him or hate him, he's a great deal maker.  Kind of like Trader Jim.

 

Tanev for ???

Is Sbisa Vegas bound?

Mittelstadt?

Villardi?

Dman?

Trade up?

Drouin, somehow?

Canucks, s'go!

[riffraff]

9 hours ago, DeltaSwede said:

To sit in front of your computer and deny what 97% of the WORLDS scientists are ALL IN AGREEMENT WITH. Balls of steel. 

 

Flat earth. 

 

Aliens built the statue of liberty. 

 

The entire world community is on board with this.... the entire world knows this is happening.. there is proof it is happening. 

 

"they took his job, I drive a f1500 truck and sleep with my sisters cousin" type of behaviour. 

It's f150

 

and I have a 1tonne.

[Rob_Zepp]

On 6/2/2017 at 8:26 PM, Nuxfanabroad said:

He did something on a subject where I've been waiting for pro athletes to do more(especially high profile stars).

 

He spoke out on the subject of climate change. Well done JT. Gained a new fan here.

Climate has always been changing - we have cyclical hot/cold due to, amongst other things, polarity switches in magnetism (e.g. Magnetic poles flip very 30,000 years or so) and trends in sun spots/solar flares.   North America (in its present location) has been tropical, almost fully iced over and temperate a number of times each.   Human role in present trends are what debate is about.   Being humans, that role is likely both overstated in what influence and what impact of control but if it makes people feel good to believe one aspect or another no harm.   What is harmful is when you disguise wealth transfer for action as the transfer won't get to those who really need it and it won't be paid for by those who can really afford to pay.    

[Nuxfanabroad]

4 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Climate has always been changing - we have cyclical hot/cold due to, amongst other things, polarity switches in magnetism (e.g. Magnetic poles flip very 30,000 years or so) and trends in sun spots/solar flares.   North America (in its present location) has been tropical, almost fully iced over and temperate a number of times each.   Human role in present trends are what debate is about.   Being humans, that role is likely both overstated in what influence and what impact of control but if it makes people feel good to believe one aspect or another no harm.   What is harmful is when you disguise wealth transfer for action as the transfer won't get to those who really need it and it won't be paid for by those who can really afford to pay.    

I don't care about your opinion vs mine, on this matter. There are plenty of Enviro-sites to discuss such details, in-depth, if one is so inclined.

 

What I care about is a prominent athlete raising an issue that I believe should be FRONT PAGE discussion on every daily paper, every day of the week.

[Rob_Zepp]

I didn't offer an opinion - just a fact.   Climate has always been changing...if that wasn't the case, we wouldn't have oil in Western Canada as remnants from Tropical Reefs or glacial till in Vancouver that was the result of being compressed by several km's of ice loading.   What is an opinion is what will happen in the future - my guess is climate will continue to change.   The fact that a professional hockey player without any more science background that the majority of the population makes a statement about it seems interesting but I doubt the climate will notice - it will do what is always has done.

[Nuxfanabroad]

17 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I didn't offer an opinion - just a fact.   Climate has always been changing...if that wasn't the case, we wouldn't have oil in Western Canada as remnants from Tropical Reefs or glacial till in Vancouver that was the result of being compressed by several km's of ice loading.   What is an opinion is what will happen in the future - my guess is climate will continue to change.   The fact that a professional hockey player without any more science background that the majority of the population makes a statement about it seems interesting but I doubt the climate will notice - it will do what is always has done.

On this jazz we're Polar-opposites..residing in between, is an oily tale-sheen, wavy jet stream, & heightened need for sunscreen :^)

[gerry35]

18 hours ago, ey40 said:

So you think global warming is a hoax? Something the media made up?

That is my feeling on it. The media has lied so many times about this and many other things I just don't believe anything from the mainstream media anymore. In fact I have almost come to the place where if they are for it then I'm against it. A few thousand years ago we were all under miles of ice and that melting has nothing to do with man made climate change. As was posted earlier in the thread climate change "scientists" have been proven to have lied about it, are we to believe anything they say anymore? It is an "Inconvenient Truth" for them you could say............

[gerry35]

I like what Partick Moore, one of the founder's of Greenpeace has to say about some of this stuff.

 

 

[GB5]

On 6/3/2017 at 11:42 PM, Qwags said:

Except it's not just the government saying it, it's literally the vast majority of climatologists. Thinking for one's self is all well and good, but you don't need to look very far to find evidence of climate change.

I don't think he is doubting climate change. In my mind the larger question is what causes climate change. 

 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

6 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

On this jazz we're Polar-opposites..residing in between, is an oily tale-sheen, wavy jet stream, & heightened need for sunscreen :^)

You don't believe in ice-ages or the fact the world has constantly been in a state of climate change since it formed over 6 billion years ago?   Really?   

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

You don't believe in ice-ages or the fact the world has constantly been in a state of climate change since it formed over 6 billion years ago?   Really?   

There are several aspects to this issue(anthropogenic climate disruption), & it's certainly an interesting matter, purely from a scientific pov. I've spent a fairly significant amount of time, delving into it, over about the last decade.

 

There are also several narratives(often conflicting) propagated by differing groups, with a variety of vested interests. I like discussing the topic, mostly with people in person..it's great when they're objective & well-informed.

 

I don't 'do' debating. That's mostly for the ..shall we say, 'impactful' neighbours, existing below Canada's border. As they say, "time is short." Indeed, likely shorter than most of us can grasp. Time's precious. I've lived with that maxim in my head for several yrs now.

 

About a yr back I started a thread(Overwhelmed Planet) in the off-topic forum. Just bumped it. Drop by if you have assertions you feel are valuably passed on. The gist of this thread is to express appreciation that a prominent athlete is raising awareness to such a crucial matter. That's how I feel about it.

 

EDIT: Actually, started that thread TWO yrs back. Wow, time flies!

[Rob_Zepp]

Still curious what a prominent athlete and a process (climate change) that has been happening for the entire existence of the planet really have in common.   If he is speaking out about the potential/real/imagined or whatever you choose anthropogenic influence on weather patterns and the like, that sure was not clear from his narrative.   As there is little ability for any human influence to rival a polar magnetism flip or a massive solar flare, it gets confusing to know what some of these people are talking about as they speak in code.

[Gaudette Celly]

On 6/3/2017 at 8:40 AM, S'all Good Man said:

But what if its you thats wrong? If "the scientists" are correct reducing carbon emissions at best will help to keep sea level from rising as fast as they are and have less extreme weather events and places like Vancouver won't have to rush to figure out how not to be flooded out of existence. At worst, we won't have major cities choking to death in smog clouds.

 

But if you are wrong..... 

Flooding... wasn't Florida supposed to be under water by now, according to court-proven liar Al Gore, who owns mansions by the ocean?  Or the Arctic free of ice by 2013 yet there's more now?  Or that there's more polar bears now than there were 40 years ago? How's the Chicago "climate credits exchange" ponzi scheme he cooked up with Ken Lay the Enron CEO going?  Considering that they (CRU) were caught admitting that they also faked and manipulated the data to fit their models, I'd say that's a pretty key indicator.  This stuff isn't difficult to look up and research, and put together to get a good picture of what's actually going on.

 

For those that remember, in the 1970's we were all conditioned to be terrified of the impending "ice age".  Then it was global warming but oops, that stopped so it's now "climate change", as if climate doesn't change cyclically or that the earth isn't in a historical dearth of CO2, let alone the fact that more CO2 would actually be better for the world.  It's really not that difficult to figure out, not only by examining the facts vs claims put forth but by looking deeper into things like the Club of Rome and their Agenda 21 -- it's all spelled out in there what they were going to do.  Classic Hegelian Dialectic.

 

Quote

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary."

H.L. Mencken

First we were to be scared of the Soviets, then it was global freezing, then water was running out, then Osama Bin Laden, then global warming, then Muslim extremists, then climate change, then "home-grown terror"... soon aliens, Nibiru, and whatever else it takes to remove more of your freedoms and labour from us as we cower in fear and beg the governanny to protect us.  Funny how the "solutions" always seem to involve that, eh?

[JM_]

9 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

Flooding... wasn't Florida supposed to be under water by now, according to court-proven liar Al Gore, who owns mansions by the ocean?  Or the Arctic free of ice by 2013 yet there's more now?  Or that there's more polar bears now than there were 40 years ago? How's the Chicago "climate credits exchange" ponzi scheme he cooked up with Ken Lay the Enron CEO going?  Considering that they (CRU) were caught admitting that they also faked and manipulated the data to fit their models, I'd say that's a pretty key indicator.  This stuff isn't difficult to look up and research, and put together to get a good picture of what's actually going on.

 

For those that remember, in the 1970's we were all conditioned to be terrified of the impending "ice age".  Then it was global warming but oops, that stopped so it's now "climate change", as if climate doesn't change cyclically or that the earth isn't in a historical dearth of CO2, let alone the fact that more CO2 would actually be better for the world.  It's really not that difficult to figure out, not only by examining the facts vs claims put forth but by looking deeper into things like the Club of Rome and their Agenda 21 -- it's all spelled out in there what they were going to do.  Classic Hegelian Dialectic.

 

First we were to be scared of the Soviets, then it was global freezing, then water was running out, then Osama Bin Laden, then global warming, then Muslim extremists, then climate change, then "home-grown terror"... soon aliens, Nibiru, and whatever else it takes to remove more of your freedoms and labour from us as we cower in fear and beg the governanny to protect us.  Funny how the "solutions" always seem to involve that, eh?

 

none of those things are related.... for things to be how you claim, every climate scientist in the world world be colluding to "fix" the temperature and sea level measurements. That's just not a credible position Wink.

 

There was also an actual issue vs. bs spin to all of the things you mention that did require our attention. Just because some particular group tries to spin something doesn't mean there isn't a base of truth to an issue we need to act on.

 

If we ran on corporate spin we wouldn't be wearing seat belts and still be driving exploding Pinto's. If we just ran on fear people wouldn't have attended the Manchester concert this week. If we just ran on government fear Harper would still be in power. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kragar]

On 6/6/2017 at 7:45 AM, S'all Good Man said:

 

none of those things are related.... for things to be how you claim, every climate scientist in the world world be colluding to "fix" the temperature and sea level measurements. That's just not a credible position Wink.

 

There was also an actual issue vs. bs spin to all of the things you mention that did require our attention. Just because some particular group tries to spin something doesn't mean there isn't a base of truth to an issue we need to act on.

 

If we ran on corporate spin we wouldn't be wearing seat belts and still be driving exploding Pinto's. If we just ran on fear people wouldn't have attended the Manchester concert this week. If we just ran on government fear Harper would still be in power. 

 

@Hutton Wink's got a point (BTW love the Mencken quote, Wink).  Gore and others have misled us repeatedly about claims regarding sea levels, arctic ice, hurricanes and other climate related matters for years.  Over the last 3 decades and more, as global warming/climate change has become more and more of a news issue, so many models created by heralded climate scientists generate some scary near-inescapable event that gets spoon-fed to the public by hypocrites like Gore.  Yet these repeated presentations of climate bogeymen don't materialize anywhere close to the forecasted timeframe, if they even happen at all.  He's cried wolf enough times that some people are starting to tune him out.

 

While OP is happy to see yet another high-profile person stand up in favor of an issue he supports, I don't get it (aside from adding another voice to the echo chamber).  It's just one more person telling the public to be sensitive to the issue while, through his profession (if not private life... I see he downsized to a condo) uses considerably higher than average amounts of resources with a reputed higher impact on the environment.  

 

The best part had to do with keeping an open mind.  Laughed out loud on that one.  Open minds went out so long ago on this matter, it's gotten to the point where one famous "science guy" climbed on the bandwagon to have deniers jailed for war crimes.  When you cannot have an open discussion on the topic, science has gone out the window.  Perhaps the majority of scientists do just fine and continue with their valid work, continuing to question what is really behind what they see.  But out here in the real world, our schools and universities hinder free discussion in favor of people's feelings, the TV and movie industry blackball conservatives to an extraordinary degree so we are left with so many rich pretty people parroting the same slanted advice, and our news sources filter the truth through their own political bias.  What hope is there for an honest discussion?

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Kragar said:

 

@Hutton Wink's got a point (BTW love the Mencken quote, Wink).  Gore and others have misled us repeatedly about claims regarding sea levels, arctic ice, hurricanes and other climate related matters for years.  Over the last 3 decades and more, as global warming/climate change has become more and more of a news issue, so many models created by heralded climate scientists generate some scary near-inescapable event that gets spoon-fed to the public by hypocrites like Gore.  Yet these repeated presentations of climate bogeymen don't materialize anywhere close to the forecasted timeframe, if they even happen at all.  He's cried wolf enough times that some people are starting to tune him out.

 

While OP is happy to see yet another high-profile person stand up in favor of an issue he supports, I don't get it (aside from adding another voice to the echo chamber).  It's just one more person telling the public to be sensitive to the issue while, through his profession (if not private life... I see he downsized to a condo) uses considerably higher than average amounts of resources with a reputed higher impact on the environment.  

 

The best part had to do with keeping an open mind.  Laughed out loud on that one.  Open minds went out so long ago on this matter, it's gotten to the point where one famous "science guy" climbed on the bandwagon to have deniers jailed for war crimes.  When you cannot have an open discussion on the topic, science has gone out the window.  Perhaps the majority of scientists do just fine and continue with their valid work, continuing to question what is really behind what they see.  But out here in the real world, our schools and universities hinder free discussion in favor of people's feelings, the TV and movie industry blackball conservatives to an extraordinary degree so we are left with so many rich pretty people parroting the same slanted advice, and our news sources filter the truth through their own political bias.  What hope is there for an honest discussion?

Oh for sure Gore used the spin to his advantage, he may have been trying to raise his profile for another run at the presidency based on a new fear. 

 

But that doesn't negate that legitimate regular old science folks are tracking sea level increases every year, and higher temperatures. And then there's quality of life in our largest cities. 

 

Regardless of spin, we're likely going to have some serious issues to deal with very soon. To deny it and do nothing will leave us in a pretty bad spot don't you think?