The_Rocket Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 2 hours ago, aGENT said: We already sold off our sale-able vets a few years ago when our rebuild started FYI. Kesler, Luongo, Bieksa etc, etc... There several sellable vets left and we’ve sold skme Since then. Garrison hansen burrows Vanek. In the roster right now we have Edler Tanev gagner Sutter MDZ who all have value on the trade market. I’m confident Benning will continue shedding one to two a year for prospects or picks and replacing them with either new FA’s or young players 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rocket Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 2 hours ago, DSVII said: We are trending in a positive direction, by virtue of every team being gifted 7 picks each year. The question is, are we improving our prospect pipeline at the same rate as our other rivals. The D Pipeline is looking a little bare right now (come back Tryamkin!), but the forward and goalie crop is very good. So far i think we're trending to be like the Islanders, but with better goal tending. A way i can see us going back to contention is to at least try and replicate what Pittsburgh did, stack the forwards, no big names on Defense (Letang aside) but good serviceable dmen who excel at moving the puck to the forwards. The 2nds we gave up for Vey, Guds, Sutter would have been useful here at replenishing the pipeline in that department. Again, i argue you can still shelter the youth with UFAs. What's the difference if the goal against is scored with Guds on the ice versus a UFA? Except that we keep our picks. More Vanek/Gagne/Del Zotto signings in the transition period, less trades for complentmentary players like Sutter/Guds at premiums. In the long run those 2nd round picks will probably be meaningless tbh. Yeah it’s too bad we gave them up and that’s definitely been a flaw of Bennings in the past, odds are those picks wouldn’t have turned into much anyways. JB has never done a big enough trade where losing the trade would substantial hurt the team, but he also hasn’t done one the would significantly help the team. Just middling trades that probably don’t make too big of a difference in the long run 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, Canadian Clay said: There several sellable vets left and we’ve sold skme Since then. Garrison hansen burrows Vanek. In the roster right now we have Edler Tanev gagner Sutter MDZ who all have value on the trade market. I’m confident Benning will continue shedding one to two a year for prospects or picks and replacing them with either new FA’s or young players Yeah, they'd be included in the 'etc, etc...' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Rush17 said: So after we win the draft lottery. Does it go to 99.75%. then we just wait for his name to be announced? Then it's 100% ^^ curious on our summer timeline lol Yeah, R17. When first started this thread I had it at 80%(roughly 20% each season, for five yrs). I'd often count %'s when finishing a long bike ride, or marathon. Keeps the mind occupied, & I prefer to count when much more than half(say 70+%) is in the rear view! Maybe the 100% will indicate the end of turtle speed(& wimpy) team? I'm hoping future incarnations feature youth, speed & size like the Jets currently boast. They're pretty darn fun to watch! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Canadian Clay said: Scuze the long post: In hindsight, building a team for the 2014-2015 season that would compete for the playoffs was probably a mistake, and the Canucks should have started to tear down that season. They would obviously be farther along in the rebuild by now had they done so. But there are plenty of reasons why they instead decided to add free agents and have core that could compete “now”: 1) the 2013-2014 Canucks were not actually that bad (compared to the current Canucks). Up until January that team was on pace for well over 100 points and cruising to first place in the division. Then luongo got injured and they were playing Eddie lack and Joacim Eriksson in net (remember him?) and they lost a game in Anaheim 9-1 which was the turning point of the season. The wheels came off, and the Canucks finished the rest of the year with one of their worst stretches in the past 5 years. Yes, they were worse in the back half of the 2014 season than they were when they came 29th last season. The team was noticeably dejected and it spawned turmoil in the locker room. That teams season was very similar to the Calgary Flames this season. 2) the Sedins were still very good. In the 2014-2015 season, both Sedins were in the Top 10 of league scoring. This was a bounce back from the previous year where they were cold for the entire second half of the season. New GM JB got rid of the parts of the core that we’re bringing down the locker room (Kesler, Luongo), and replaced them with new pieces (Vrbata, Miller, Bonino). The team looked very similar to the one that won the Northwest in 2013, and they proved it by making the playoffs as a one-and-done team. This success was on the back of the Sedins and their brand new contracts. Basically, why rebuild when you still have two of the top players in the league in your team? 3) pressure to win the Canucks hadn’t been consistently bad since the late 90’s. The transition from west coast express era to the Sedins era was quite seamless, thanks to core players being drafted throughout the first half of the 2000’s. A few bumpy seasons thrown in (looking at you 2008), but not real bottoming out. Resistance to tearing down a team which successfully transitioned between two cores very recently is understandable, even though we now know the long term impact was negative. Good write up Clay. I disagree with the bolded part and agree with almost everything else. Hindsight is wonderful, but imagine we had gotten rid of the Sedins in 2014-15, and started the rebuild, and they had gone on to win a cup with another team. Wonder what would have happened here on CDC and in Vancouver? The Sedins were amongst the best players in the league at the time, and you don't just throw out the family silver, just because you think you may get better 4 years down the line, unless the team is struggling. The Sedins were as you rightly pointed out very good at the time. The team unfortunately were not, and it was so hampered afterwards by injuries, it fell apart. The steep slowdown in the Sedins game the following years could not be envisaged neither. And finally it is a business. The fans wants to see stars on the ice. Thats what they pay for. Over the last season in particular its been evident that unless the fans are entertained they don't show up, so I would not be surprised F.A. together with management would have wanted to let the Sedins lead the team a bit longer... Edited April 12, 2018 by spook007 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, spook007 said: Good write up Clay. I disagree with the bolded part and agree with almost everything else. Hindsight is wonderful, but imagine we had gotten rid of the Sedins in 2014-15, and started the rebuild, and they had gone on to win a cup with another team, what doi you think would have happened here? The Sedins were amongst the best players in the league at the time, and you don't just throw out the family silver, just because you think you may get better 4 years down the line, unless the team is struggling. The Sedins were as you rightly pointed out very good at the time. The team unfortunately were not, and it was so hampered afterwards by injuries, it fell apart. The steep slowdown in the Sedins game the following years could not be envisaged neither. And finally it is a business. The fans wants to see stars on the ice. Thats what they pay for. Over the last season in particular its been evident that unless the fans are entertained they don't show up, so I would not be surprised F.A. together with management would have wanted to let the Sedins lead the team a bit longer... Very much agree..& I'm the hypocrite who likely would've dealt them 2 or 3 yrs back. Watching the twins achieve 1000 pts, & then a graceful exit was very good for the logo/brand. When we all look back yrs later, it'll likely be unanimous the team handled that perfectly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, spook007 said: Good write up Clay. I disagree with the bolded part and agree with almost everything else. Hindsight is wonderful, but imagine we had gotten rid of the Sedins in 2014-15, and started the rebuild, and they had gone on to win a cup with another team. Wonder what would have happened here on CDC and in Vancouver? The Sedins were amongst the best players in the league at the time, and you don't just throw out the family silver, just because you think you may get better 4 years down the line, unless the team is struggling. The Sedins were as you rightly pointed out very good at the time. The team unfortunately were not, and it was so hampered afterwards by injuries, it fell apart. The steep slowdown in the Sedins game the following years could not be envisaged neither. And finally it is a business. The fans wants to see stars on the ice. Thats what they pay for. Over the last season in particular its been evident that unless the fans are entertained they don't show up, so I would not be surprised F.A. together with management would have wanted to let the Sedins lead the team a bit longer... So were Kessel and even Dion, but they were traded that year and that team will be on TV later, in the playoffs, mainly because of the unfairness and pain the boss laid out. The fans want something to cheer for. That can be many brands of hockey. Indifference is not a hot commodity. Cough, Edler. I wasn’t cheering for the gliding Sedins who seemingly found another gear once they’d decided to quit the game, but I was cheering for the accidental Tank results; the kids on the team these past few seasons. I paid Aqua man to watch it. Did you? Next year I expect to see more paying fans at the games. The indifference era is over. Edited April 12, 2018 by 189lb enforcers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Has anyone seen a very current draft prospect list since this season ended? Time to start the annual pre-draft craziness again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said: So were Kessel and even Dion, but they were traded that year and that team will be on TV later, in the playoffs, mainly because of the unfairness and pain the boss layer out. The fans want something to cheer for. That can be many brands of hockey. Indifference is not a hot commodity. Cough, Edler. I wasn’t cheering for the gliding Sedins who seemingly found another gear once they’d decided to quit the game, but I was cheering for the accidental Tank results; the kids on the team these past few seasons. I paid Aqua man to watch it. Did you? Next year I expect to see more paying fans at the games. The indifference era is over. Kind of hard from the UK, but I do subscribe to NHL.com and which ever TV station that shows Canucks games, and I'm sure Aqua man get his share of the spoils from those TV deals.... But if I had lived in Vancouver, I would have been a season ticket holder, even if they had been Buffalo or Arizona bad.... I envy you lot having the opportunity to watch the games live. Lets see how many seat will be filled next season. I hope they sell out, but if the youngsters end up being in the bottom again, I will be massively surprised if there will be more fans at Rogers than there were this season. And that includes you, who is paying Aqua man. Surprised though to hear you weren't cheering for the Sedins in 2014-15, which I was responding to. I am as glad as any that we are now transitioning into a new era, but not so sure it would have been as interesting 2 years ago. We now have something going on, and they have been sheltered the first year or two, so I am happy with how it has been played out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, spook007 said: Kind of hard from the UK Oh! Alright, cheers then. It would be interesting to see a poll on the subject of if folks will be more inclined to go to more game this season than they did this past season. Leipsic Brock and Bo ... sounds like a designer brand, but it was also a heck of a thrilling line while it lasted. Edited April 13, 2018 by 189lb enforcers? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Oh! Alright, cheers then. It would be interesting to see a poll on the subject of if folks will be more inclined to go to more game this season than they did this past season. Listick Brock and Bo ... sounds like a designer brand, but it was also a heck of a thrilling line while it lasted. I'm sure there is a huge interest in seeing new blood.... just hope the positive vibes stays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, spook007 said: I'm sure there is a huge interest in seeing new blood.... just hope the positive vibes stays Were you around for the Bure buzz or when the WCE started down the line? This roster is close to generating that level of excitement again. One more year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 17 hours ago, oldnews said: Precisely what makes you a waste of time to have a 'conversation' with. You're unable to engage in anything but fantasy one-liner narratives. Quote one post that remotely resembles that absurd claim you've made. Once again, problems stem from some folks equating opinion, rumour, and speculation with quotes, facts, and substance, or simply not understanding the vast difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 47 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Were you around for the Bure buzz or when the WCE started down the line? This roster is close to generating that level of excitement again. One more year. No, unfortunately I wasn't. I do feel the excitement that is going through the entire organisation and fan base, and you can't help getting caught up in it. Its fantastic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 hour ago, spook007 said: Oilers score a lot of point... their players are fantastic as they should be after drafting where they have been drafting the last 10 years+... there isn't many of these players drafted in 2nd round or lower... Yeah they have been terrible drafting outside of the picks gift wrapped to them. Quote JB is good at drafting and evaluating prospects... So I think its kind of strange to hear people here complain he traded draft picks for prospects. Shouldn't he be the best person to evaluate whether a pick should be used for drafting or for swapping for another prospect? Not really because he can’t predict which players will be around in each round. He can’t read the other gms minds. Again when he makes comments like “what hasn’t anyone taken Kole Lind” it just shows you he doesn’t know. Also when you consider that most of these picks are moved months prior to the draft. Our standings and where we pick isn’t even finalized so it would be pretty hard to say he knows what players will or will not be avalabie by the time we’d pick. Quote Crystal ball...Based on the evaluation of our drafting guru JB's evaluation. Drafting prospects and struggling NHL players is different. Especially when we don’t have opportunity to work and time to really work on there development when we acquire Players that need to pass waivers to be sent down. Quote Larsen, was top scoring defenseman in the KHL, and believe he is again.... It was worth the gamble for PMD... I still see lots of post wanting 5'10 lightweights being wanted because they can score goals and are good skaters. Larsen had already proven he wasn’t nhl caliber. Barker and Nigel Dawes also left the khl before. Quote Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It can be used both ways.... Fact is there is more than one way to build a team. Yep there really is and we all just want what’s best for this team to start winning and be contenders. I’m happy we’re starting to see progress. Quote PS. Haven't followed the debate, so if I have misunderstood something my apologies, but it seems to be the egg and Chicken debate all over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 6 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Is that what we did with McCann? of course you can. But is what has happened? yes, that is iexactly what happened. McCann faced some of the weakest quality of competition on the team - qoc was 24th strongest on the team - with only a few forwards (ie Etem) and a few replacement players like Grenier, Friesen and Zalewski facing weaker qoc (and these guys played 15 games combined). He had the fourth highest ozone starts among forwards. His principle linemates were Higgins, Vrbata, Hansen, Daniel Sedin. The only guys who got higher ozone starts than McCann were the Sedins and Hansen, who faced the strongest quality of competition on the team alongside Sutter - and they were also three of his most frequently his linemates. Playing with him actually deflated their qualcomp numbers which otherwise were strongest. So, when you integrate the fact that he faced among the weakest competition, had among the highest ozone starts, and played with veteran linemates who typically face strong quality of competition - that is pretty much every ingredient you have in sheltering - where he was deployed, who he was deployed against, and who he was deployed with. Most sheltered player on the team, moreso than the other rookie, Virtanen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Were you around for the Bure buzz or when the WCE started down the line? This roster is close to generating that level of excitement again. One more year. I agree........ but when will the rebuild begin? nvmd..... ('za joke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, oldnews said: yes, that is iexactly what happened. McCann faced some of the weakest quality of competition on the team - qoc was 24th strongest on the team - with only a few forwards (ie Etem) and a few replacement players like Grenier, Friesen and Zalewski facing weaker qoc (and these guys played 15 games combined). He had the fourth highest ozone starts among forwards. His principle linemates were Higgins, Vrbata, Hansen, Daniel Sedin. The only guys who got higher ozone starts than McCann were the Sedins and Hansen, who faced the strongest quality of competition on the team alongside Sutter - and they were also three of his most frequently his linemates. Playing with him actually deflated their qualcomp numbers which otherwise were strongest. So, when you integrate the fact that he faced among the weakest competition, had among the highest ozone starts, and played with veteran linemates who typically face strong quality of competition - that is pretty much every ingredient you have in sheltering - where he was deployed, who he was deployed against, and who he was deployed with. Most sheltered player on the team, moreso than the other rookie, Virtanen. Sorry old news. Disagree completely the kid was thrown to the wolves. As soon as sutter went down he was placed into a position he should not have been. His confidence was destroyed and he never really recovered. Canucks eventually brought vey back up to help take off some of that pressure but it was pretty much a write off by that point. Dont forget that he was put on a line with Vbrata who wrote off the season and pouted for having to play with a 19 year old rookie. And Higgins who was long past his quality nhl shelf life. I wouldn’t consider that as so nicely sugar coated as you. Edited April 12, 2018 by ForsbergTheGreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Sorry old news. Disagree completely the kid was thrown to the wolves. As soon as sutter went down he was placed into a position he should not have been. His confidence was destroyed and he never really recovered. Canucks eventually brought vey back up to help take off some of that pressure but it was pretty much a write off by that point. Dont forget that he was put on a line with Vbrata who wrote off the season and pouted for having to play with a 19 year old rookie. And Higgins who was long past his quality nhl shelf life. I wouldn’t consider that as so nicely sugar coated as you. Meh. What you call 'sugar coating' are the objective outcomes - which you counter with a narrative. It's all relative. If the facts got in the way of a good story - my apologies - just disregard the facts. Edited April 12, 2018 by oldnews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, oldnews said: I agree........ but when will the rebuild begin? nvmd..... ('za joke). When Eriksson decides he's finally leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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