Prisoners to be placed in men's or women's facility based on how they self identify

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, Two one one said:

What is the point of saying that if you don't endorse it?

Is prison cruelty not a deterrent? I just stated the truth.  It doesn't mean i want people to get raped when they go to prison. 

That's quite the jump in assumption for someone to make.  

 

 

[MikeyBoy44]

On 03/02/2018 at 11:01 AM, Toews said:

Being transgender is a known risk factor for being sexually abused in prison especially trans-women in a male prison. If you believe that the "scrawny, feminine looking, non trans guys" are at the same risk then you should have evidence of this being the case. There is enough evidence available on transgender rape in prison and it needed to stop.

The evidence is only there because people are looking for it. To deny that the scrawny guy is any better off than the trans guy because of 'eviden'evidence' is pretty ignorant as well.

[Toews]

25 minutes ago, MikeyBoy44 said:

The evidence is only there because people are looking for it. 

Maybe. Unfortunately the rights of criminals are not important to many individuals who lean conservative. Prison rape is just not a priority to them because it is happening to "criminals" and who gives a flying &^@# about them. Rape and abuse? A-OK because they serve as a deterrent to criminal activity. 

28 minutes ago, MikeyBoy44 said:

To deny that the scrawny guy is any better off than the trans guy because of 'eviden'evidence' is pretty ignorant as well.

I am not denying anything. I simply asked for evidence for the claim that was made. Ideally sexual assault in prisons would be more of a priority and we could stop such abuse but till then we will have to rely on reducing the risk of rape. 

[HerrDrFunk]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

So yeah.....you made up claims.  And you expect people to take you serious? 

I've made up nothing. I'm sorry that you don't have the self awareness to understand what the sum of your posts in this thread have indicated about your values.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, HerrDrFunk said:

I've made up nothing. I'm sorry that you don't have the self awareness to understand what the sum of your posts in this thread have indicated about your values.

"I'm just basing that"

 

AKA, i'm going to make an assumption and jump to a conclusion on something you said.....

 

Doesn't matter what you want to sugar coat it as, that's you making something up...  unless you seen me state what you claimed, it's made up BS.  

[HerrDrFunk]

21 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

"I'm just basing that"

 

AKA, i'm going to make an assumption and jump to a conclusion on something you said.....

 

Doesn't matter what you want to sugar coat it as, that's you making something up...  unless you seen me state what you claimed, it's made up BS.  

Okay, so enlighten me. If you don't mean what I've said, what were you trying to say?

[ForsbergTheGreat]

9 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Okay, so enlighten me. If you don't mean what I've said, what were you trying to say?

The scare of what goes on in prison is a deterrent...You know, exactly what I said in my post. 

You're the one that added your own context to my quote....

[HerrDrFunk]

27 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

The scare of what goes on in prison is a deterrent...You know, exactly what I said in my post. 

You're the one that added your own context to my quote....

So prison isn't prison-y enough without rape?

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

The scare of what goes on in prison is a deterrent...You know, exactly what I said in my post. 

You're the one that added your own context to my quote....

All citizens deserve to be safe from abuse. That includes those in prison.  

 

Most people in prison will one day be freed after doing their time.....

 

It actually makes us all safer if people come out of prison healthier / treated / educated / less addicted  / less angry  than when they entered prison.....

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

48 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

So prison isn't prison-y enough without rape?

Why am i not surprise, yeah, i'm done with you.  You obviously have major troubles with reading comprehension, good luck in life.

[HerrDrFunk]

1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Why am i not surprise, yeah, i'm done with you.  You obviously have major troubles with reading comprehension, good luck in life.

No, I'm extrapolating from what you're saying. You don't think loss of freedom, terrible food and accommodation, company of criminals and the rest of the general prison experience isn't enough of a deterrent without the threat of abuse and rape on top of it? 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

19 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

No, I'm extrapolating from what you're saying. You don't think loss of freedom, terrible food and accommodation, company of criminals and the rest of the general prison experience isn't enough of a deterrent without the threat of abuse and rape on top of it? 

Did i state that?  No,  I didn't say anything close to that.  That's the conclusion you came up with, all on your very own.  So stop putting words in my mouth.  

 

 

[HerrDrFunk]

5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Did i state that?  No,  I didn't say anything close to that.  That's the conclusion you came up with, all on your very own.  So stop putting words in my mouth.  

 

 

Then what do you mean? You've mentioned abuse and rape being a deterrent to crime twice now. So if you don't support those things, why do you think they have any place in Canadian prisons for any inmate?

[Dral]

5 hours ago, Toews said:

Maybe. Unfortunately the rights of criminals are not important to many individuals who lean conservative. Prison rape is just not a priority to them because it is happening to "criminals" and who gives a flying &^@# about them. Rape and abuse? A-OK because they serve as a deterrent to criminal activity. 

I am not denying anything. I simply asked for evidence for the claim that was made. Ideally sexual assault in prisons would be more of a priority and we could stop such abuse but till then we will have to rely on reducing the risk of rape. 

Unfortunately the rights of female actors are not important to many individuals who lean left and worked in hollywood for years.

[Dral]

44 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

All citizens deserve to be safe from abuse. That includes those in prison.  

 

Most people in prison will one day be freed after doing their time.....

 

It actually makes us all safer if people come out of prison healthier / treated / educated / less addicted  / less angry  than when they entered prison.....

 

I agree - so why not spend some time focusing on drug addiction in prison, or education of criminals in prison... you know, things that affect a large number of prisoners?

 

Because this is a way to grab votes from bleeding heart SJW, which is better in the minds of some politicians then actually fixing the problems you mentioned

[HerrDrFunk]

 

8 minutes ago, Dral said:

I agree - so why not spend some time focusing on drug addiction in prison, or education of criminals in prison... you know, things that affect a large number of prisoners?

 

Because this is a way to grab votes from bleeding heart SJW, which is better in the minds of some politicians then actually fixing the problems you mentioned

Both of those programs are currently offered in prison. It's really not a situation where corrections Canada can offer drug treatment or accommodate trans inmates.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Then what do you mean? You've mentioned abuse and rape being a deterrent to crime twice now. So if you don't support those things, why do you think they have any place in Canadian prisons for any inmate?

I've already explained it to you.  if you can't understand that then you need to go back to grade 3 and learn how to read again. 

Just because something is a deterrent doesn't mean you support it or think it has a place.  Stop jumping to that conclusion.  All i did is acknowledge they exist. 

 

[Dral]

1 minute ago, HerrDrFunk said:

 

Both of those programs are currently offered in prison. It's really not a situation where corrections Canada can offer drug treatment or accommodate trans inmates.

Really... Corrections Canada can offer a sex change but not drug treatment ? And they can't do a better job to stop the flow of drugs into prison...?

[HerrDrFunk]

1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I've already explained it to you.  if you can't understand that then you need to go back to grade 3 and learn how to read again. 

Just because something is a deterrent doesn't mean you support it or think it has a place.  Stop jumping to that conclusion.  All i did is acknowledge they exist. 

 

Okay, so you don't support it, great. Then you wouldn't be opposed to lessening the chances of it happening, right?

 

3 minutes ago, Dral said:

Really... Corrections Canada can offer a sex change but not drug treatment ? And they can't do a better job to stop the flow of drugs into prison...?

My apologies, I wrote that last sentence in an unclear way. Prisons obviously offer drug treatment. It's not a situation where prisoners are being withheld drug treatment because other prisoners are transitioning. 

[kingofsurrey]

4 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

 

Both of those programs are currently offered in prison. It's really not a situation where corrections Canada can offer drug treatment or accommodate trans inmates.

I spent a few years when i was younger working with young offenders......

 

What i noticed was most of them had   learning disabilties / low ability ,  drug addiction issues,  mental health issues ,  poverty issues  and /or no functioning family supports.

Often these kids came out of the foster care system and just did not have proper role models in their lives to promote healthy living.

These kids did not want to be " criminals " but they were impulsive and make frequent very poor decisions.

 

Prison can work with the inmates but changing the behavior of an adult after many years of developing routines / addictions and pattern is pretty tough....

 

Makes so much more sense to spend more money on  providing services  /  food  / education  / counselling to children growing up in  poverty  / foster care  / with mental health issues.....

 

Canada has so much to learn on investing more  in our children  / youth  to save social costs later on in life as  non functioning sick  / unhealthy / criminal adults...........