(discussion) fun with offer sheets

[JM_]

The offer sheet season is coming soon, and Cap Friendly has a neat calculator feature to help figure out the cost in picks and what teams we may choose from. It takes term into account which is also part of the determination of compensation. 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-calculator

 

I don't buy into the argument that its frowned upon, too risky, and all that, its a tool in the CBA and every GM should look at it imo if you can make your team better. 

 

For us, I don't want to give up a 1st rounder, but a 2nd round pick... maybe. The offer range for that is $1,962,987 - $3,925,975 AAV for up to 5 years. 

 

The guy I think we should offer sheet is Tom Wilson from WSH. The Caps are going to be in tough with the cap next year and given how much we need some toughness combined with guys that can contribute offensively I think this might be possible at the 3.9 mil 4-5 year range. Jim could try to offer a second and a prospect first, and if Washington balks, then put the offer forward. 

 

Who else in this range do you think we should go after? 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

I’ve said it for the last 2 month. I would happily give up some picks for dumba. 

[goalie13]

The problem I find with RFAs is that you typically have to overpay in order to not have the offer matched.  I get that they are against the cap and that makes it tougher to re-sign guys, but there's got to be a reason that almost zero RFAs have been signed in recent history.  Teams always seem to find a way to clear enough space to sign their own guys.

 

I think the most likely scenario is to work out a trade and make that trade conditional on being able to negotiate a new contract with the player.

[Nucker 67]

I think the Canucks should make an offer to Darnell Nurse, scoop him up from EDM, they won't be able to afford him lol He only made $863K last year, and will be getting a nice raise.

 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, goalie13 said:

The problem I find with RFAs is that you typically have to overpay in order to not have the offer matched.  I get that they are against the cap and that makes it tougher to re-sign guys, but there's got to be a reason that almost zero RFAs have been signed in recent history.  Teams always seem to find a way to clear enough space to sign their own guys.

 

I think the most likely scenario is to work out a trade and make that trade conditional on being able to negotiate a new contract with the player.

Thats true, but in this case WSH is really up against it. If they are able to extend Carlson in the 7 mil range then they only have the cap increase (4-5 mil expected) left to sign up to 6 more guys. Thats squeezed. 

 

I like the idea of using it as leverage. Let Rick Dhaliwal e.g., put it out in the media that we're looking at an offer sheet, and try for a 2nd + prospect for Wilson first and if not I'd send the offer to his agent. 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I think the Canucks should make an offer to Darnell Nurse, scoop him up from EDM, they won't be able to afford him lol He only made $863K last year, and will be getting a nice raise.

 

yup - 6 RFAs and only 10 mil in cap space (plus the increase) so they are not in a great position either. 

[flickyoursedin]

Brooks Orpik is has one year remaining on his deal at a 5.5 million cap hit. He could be a cap dump that you could possibly move at the trade deadline for a pick. By moving Orpik the Caps should be able to extend Carlson to his big contract. As a nice favour the Canucks ask for Wilson in the package. I wonder if Edmonton would offer the 10th overall pick if Vancouver took on most of Lucics contract. Snag Boqvist or Hughes at 7 and Dobson at 10. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, flickyoursedin said:

Brooks Orpik is has one year remaining on his deal at a 5.5 million cap hit. He could be a cap dump that you could possibly move at the trade deadline for a pick. By moving Orpik the Caps should be able to extend Carlson to his big contract. As a nice favour the Canucks ask for Wilson in the package. I wonder if Edmonton would offer the 10th overall pick if Vancouver took on most of Lucics contract. Snag Boqvist or Hughes at 7 and Dobson at 10. 

I'd be just fine with that. So: Wilson + Orpik for 2nd round pick + prospect?

[flickyoursedin]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'd be just fine with that. So: Wilson + Orpik for 2nd round pick + prospect?

I was thinking more Orpik+Wilson for Gaunce and a mid to late pick. Washington’s value in the deal is being able to keep their number 1 dman. This year Carlson had 68 points during the season and has 11 points in 11 playoff games. There aren’t many teams willing to take cap dumps to help teams out. That should be our m.o. for the next couple years. John Carlson means more to that team than both Orpik and Wilson.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

I was thinking more Orpik+Wilson for Gaunce or a late pick. Washington’s value in the deal is being able to keep their number 1 dman. This year Carlson had 68 points during the season and has 11 points in 11 playoff games. There aren’t many teams willing to take cap dumps to help teams out. That should be our m.o. for the next couple years. John Carlson means more to that team than both Orpik and Wilson.

I'd offer the 2nd and Gaunce. With guys like Lind, etc. in the pipeline I think it'd be worth it for Wilson. 

[flickyoursedin]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'd offer the 2nd and Gaunce. With guys like Lind, etc. in the pipeline I think it'd be worth it for Wilson. 

Canucks are in rebuild years though with a lot of great looking prospects around our 2nd round pick. I wouldn’t give up 1rst or 2nd round picks right now. Saving them 5.5 million in cap space should be enough that we shouldn’t have to sacrifice high picks.

[Rob_Zepp]

I think Vancouver should offer $10 million a year to at least five players who are decent but not spectacular - just good enough to miss the playoffs but just miss.   Then their first round picks for the next 40 years or so don't need to have constant discussion/analyses as they would be surrendered and being the lottery each time, they would never quite win it so it would frustrate the team with the earned compensatory pick....so Vancouver can simply be the most frustrating franchise for every other city in the league too.

 

 

I need more coffee.

[Rush17]

I wish offer sheets were used more often. The boys in their GM seats seem to have collectively agreed not to use them. If you do.. you will either be excommunicated by your colleague or have a difficult time finding work.

 

It is a great tool but the compensation you have to pay is just not worth it half the time.  There is no way I'm giving up 2 1st round picks in the lottery draft era.  They should find a way to tweak the system or replace it entirely.

[Rush17]

3 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I think Vancouver should offer $10 million a year to at least five players who are decent but not spectacular - just good enough to miss the playoffs but just miss.   Then their first round picks for the next 40 years or so don't need to have constant discussion/analyses as they would be surrendered and being the lottery each time, they would never quite win it so it would frustrate the team with the earned compensatory pick....so Vancouver can simply be the most frustrating franchise for every other city in the league too.

 

 

I need more coffee.

Then our picks would win the lottery 10 of those 40 years lol

[Rush17]

I'm surprised GMs don't call up other GMs and ask them to low ball the players via offer sheets to help the team sign them. Lol.

 

Kind of like you want X yet this club only felt you were worth this.

 

Suppose pissing off an agent or player who may eventually become a free agent isn't smart.  How would you feel tho if Jim offered a 3rd to a team for trying to lowball expectations of one of our stars who wants the world. Lol

 

Player asks for 6 million is only really worth 5 they won't budge you get a team to offer 4.5 and you repay them down the road with a pick. ^^

 

(Of course the player wouldn't accept the offer sheet but it should bring their expectations down a touch)

 

The NHLPA would get mad tho lol

 

 

 

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I think Vancouver should offer $10 million a year to at least five players who are decent but not spectacular - just good enough to miss the playoffs but just miss.   Then their first round picks for the next 40 years or so don't need to have constant discussion/analyses as they would be surrendered and being the lottery each time, they would never quite win it so it would frustrate the team with the earned compensatory pick....so Vancouver can simply be the most frustrating franchise for every other city in the league too.

 

 

I need more coffee.

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

I wish offer sheets were used more often. The boys in their GM seats seem to have collectively agreed not to use them. If you do.. you will either be excommunicated by your colleague or have a difficult time finding work.

 

It is a great tool but the compensation you have to pay is just not worth it half the time.  There is no way I'm giving up 2 1st round picks in the lottery draft era.  They should find a way to tweak the system or replace it entirely.

I agree most of the time, but this year could be an interesting exception in that an offer of 3.9 mil might just get it done. Yah its a 2nd rounder but I'm OK with that for key players still under 25. 

[Ojibwa72]

Why not a sheet on Brandon Tanev. Salary was 700K and his brother is still in town.

[qwijibo]

5 minutes ago, Ojibwa72 said:

Why not a sheet on Brandon Tanev. Salary was 700K and his brother is still in town.

What exactly would you offer him that would be enough for him to want to leave Winnipeg and for them not go match?   He’s part of a young, exciting, up and coming team.  And they have cap space to re-sign him. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

51 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Thats true, but in this case WSH is really up against it. If they are able to extend Carlson in the 7 mil range then they only have the cap increase (4-5 mil expected) left to sign up to 6 more guys. Thats squeezed. 

I don’t see them trading Wilson at all,  they’ve spent a long term working with him and developing him into the player he is today.  He was also a former first round draft pick.  The caps aren’t that in trouble with cap that they would be forced to move out a player like Wilson to space.

 

Next year they have 66 locked up in 19 players.  With cap going up to somewhere between 78-82 million that gives them 12-16 million to sign 4 players,  Even if Carlson takes up 7 million that still leaves them with decent amount left over to lock up Wilson beagle and Bowey.  I’d also expect them to move out Burakovsky this year for picks which will free up another 3 million in space.  The cap for them is tight but not tight enough to trade off one of their top young players in Wilson.  The best way to get him would be an offer sheet.