Canadian Oil Bashers are Shooting Themselves AND the Environment in the Foot

[kingofsurrey]

7 hours ago, CanuckinEdm said:

anti pipeline people make me laugh... no pipeline does not mean no oil it just means the oil is coming by truck/rail/ship...

Any policy that limits KInder Pipeline.....  in affect raises the production cost of dirty bitumen.... will in effect reduce sales of bitumen....

 

The more toxic bitumen that stays in the earth... the better off our planet ( Jpod / Fin included... ) and all of us will be. 

[chon derry]

20 minutes ago, riffraff said:

There is nobody here willing to work for 2$/hr unfortunately.

there's no suggestion in my comments that any Canadian SHOULD  but at same time why as a country should we worry about anybody willing to accept those terms of employment?  at the true cost of our labour force . its not how this country operates within its borders , some canadian whining about another Canadians price is going to be told go somewhere else...…...quickly.

[Violator]

13 hours ago, King Heffy said:

I'd rather we build refineries to become self-sufficient rather than sell off raw resources.

Its about ten years to late for that.

 

We just opened the first refinery in 20 or so years in redwater AB.That was a bit of a mess in it self.

[riffraff]

7 minutes ago, chon derry said:

there's no suggestion in my comments that any Canadian SHOULD  but at same time why as a country should we worry about anybody willing to accept those terms of employment?  at the true cost of our labour force . its not how this country operates within its borders , some canadian whining about another Canadians price is going to be told go somewhere else...…...quickly.

No chon my comment was toungue in cheek.  I know you’re not suggesting that.  It’s simply numbers.  We don’t have a population that includes a percentage willing/forced to work for sweatshop wages/conditions.

 

so what would the solution be to exporting raw materials?

[chon derry]

15 minutes ago, riffraff said:

No chon my comment was toungue in cheek.  I know you’re not suggesting that.  It’s simply numbers.  We don’t have a population that includes a percentage willing/forced to work for sweatshop wages/conditions.

 

so what would the solution be to exporting raw materials?

were going to have to wait on nafta, but we shouldn't giving the majority of our wood/logs away ,retain some of it or more it , you know and I know at some point murica is going to need our wood. oil and gas should be a combination of export and affordability for Canadians . I dont know how else this pipeline is going to garner support any other way. it simply cant be limited to benefit alberta shipping another raw product ,given the potential price BC would have to pay.

 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, riffraff said:

One step to eliminating gvt entirely right Jimmy?

don't put me out of work man 

 

I'm a big believer in gov't only being involved in setting regulations and auditing to ensure regulations are met, and other than that staying the heck out of business decisions or god forbid trying to run one. 

[Rob_Zepp]

4 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Not really sure what the authour is looking to accomplish with the article.... that pro-oil people think people opposed to the industry are hypocrites or uninformed? what a news flash 

 

One of the biggest issues with Canada's inability to get oil to a non-US market and even internally with Energy East is government mismanagement on both sides. Harper thoroughly bungled it, if his crew had done it right there might be a pipeline for Asian exporting now. Trudeau has taken the unexpected route and bought a pipeline, and they managed to do that knowing they didn't do their part in consultations properly either  

 

If we're serious about really developing this resource we need to get government out of the management of it as much as possible, to me thats been a far bigger hurdle than some grannies getting arrested in Burnaby.

 

Maybe its time for a national referendum on oil, Canadians can decide - should oil export be a national priority, yes or no?. A mandate on that would cut through a lot of bs no matter which side won. 

When Government's hold the keys (e.g. approval process), they are front/center in the management process.   When a company clears all legal and regulatory hurdles in one of the strictest environmental/social regimes in the world and is still denied ability to construct - that is government interference to the nth degree.   This isn't just on Trudeau - all levels of governments of all stripes have been at this in Canada for far too long.

[thejazz97]

5 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Any policy that limits KInder Pipeline.....  in affect raises the production cost of dirty bitumen.... will in effect reduce sales of bitumen....

 

The more toxic bitumen that stays in the earth... the better off our planet ( Jpod / Fin included... ) and all of us will be. 

Why? 

 

Lots of people depend on oil and oil-derived products for just about everything in life. 

Spoiler

 

 

I'm assuming that even this tree is a bit old - things as simple as Leipsic and shoes and hair-dryers are made with oil-derived products, as well.

 

Now, I have no doubt that oil and fracking and carbon emissions affect the environment negatively, and we should definitely try to start moving away from a dependency on oil. But there's no simple way to move the country off oil. It'll take years to do, and it needs to be done slowly. The carbon tax, quite honestly, is a good start - taxing corporations based on carbon emissions and giving it back to the people based off socioeconomic tiers makes the most sense, even if it means bypassing the provinces (leave farmers alone with it, though).

 

The future is definitely green. But it needs to be an easy transition. Part of that is approving the pipeline extension. We can't go on for too much longer approving pipelines, but we could definitely use one or two more before cutting it off.

 

So no, it's definitely not "the more oil that stays in the earth, the better off we will be." Relatively, very few Canadians can switch to living green at the drop of a hat, especially not people who have to deal with Canadian winters 6 months of the year. Though, I have no doubt that's where the future lies.

[kingofsurrey]

2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

When Government's hold the keys (e.g. approval process), they are front/center in the management process.   When a company clears all legal and regulatory hurdles in one of the strictest environmental/social regimes in the world and is still denied ability to construct - that is government interference to the nth degree.   This isn't just on Trudeau - all levels of governments of all stripes have been at this in Canada for far too long.

Reconciliation says hello to you......

[Rob_Zepp]

2 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Reconciliation says hello to you......

Says the NIMBY living in an urban area, likely owning two vehicles and using natural gas to heat his home.   

 

[kingofsurrey]

3 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Says the NIMBY living in an urban area, likely owning two vehicles and using natural gas to heat his home.   

 

Justify your destructive  consumerism / petro chemical addition... however you want.

Climate change is real. 

 

You don't know me or how i live but feel free to make up stuff. 

[thejazz97]

Just now, kingofsurrey said:

Justify your destructive  consumerism / petro chemical addition... however you want.

Climate change is real. 

 

You don't know me or how i live but feel free to make up stuff. 

My man

 

Even if you live the greenest life possible - solar panels on the roof, grow your own food, hunt your own meat, bike to work, etc - you can't expect everyone to live the same when you live in what is perpetually the warmest and arguably the most well-connected part of Canada.

[Rob_Zepp]

1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said:

Justify your destructive  consumerism / petro chemical addition... however you want.

Climate change is real. 

 

You don't know me or how i live but feel free to make up stuff. 

Yes climate change is real - it has been changing every since the Earth was formed.   Currently the Earth is in a cool period of the last million or so years but more likely to see another glacial advance sooner than later anyway as the poles will flip soon and that seems to correlate with the past five or so glacial advancements.

 

You claim to live in Surrey and you have discussed driving many times.  Unless your unicorn and pixie dust fuel is working again, you are a consumer and a highly hypocritical one at that.   You are fine with having oil for yourself but are against anyone else having it.  You are fine with the Kinder Morgan line that has provided your fuel for more than 60 years but having it twinned so others can benefit is outside of bounds as it simply won't stand as you have what you want.

 

 

[kingofsurrey]

1 minute ago, thejazz97 said:

My man

 

Even if you live the greenest life possible - solar panels on the roof, grow your own food, hunt your own meat, bike to work, etc - you can't expect everyone to live the same when you live in what is perpetually the warmest and arguably the most well-connected part of Canada.

You do realize that Alberta tar sands oil is not consumed in Canada..... it is for export...

 

You realize this right ?

[thejazz97]

1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said:

You do realize that Alberta tar sands oil is not consumed in Canada..... it is for export...

 

You realize this right ?

Yep! Unrefined oil has more value, so we sell that and buy other countries' refined oil (or buy cheaper oil and refine it ourselves).

[kingofsurrey]

3 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Yes climate change is real - it has been changing every since the Earth was formed.   Currently the Earth is in a cool period of the last million or so years but more likely to see another glacial advance sooner than later anyway as the poles will flip soon and that seems to correlate with the past five or so glacial advancements.

 

You claim to live in Surrey and you have discussed driving many times.  Unless your unicorn and pixie dust fuel is working again, you are a consumer and a highly hypocritical one at that.   You are fine with having oil for yourself but are against anyone else having it.  You are fine with the Kinder Morgan line that has provided your fuel for more than 60 years but having it twinned so others can benefit is outside of bounds as it simply won't stand as you have what you want.

 

 

We know much more now about fossil fuels and climate change than what we knew when the original Kinder P line was constructed...

Humans are evolving..  well at least some of us are.... LOL 

[Rob_Zepp]

5 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

You do realize that Alberta tar sands oil is not consumed in Canada..... it is for export...

 

You realize this right ?

Canada does export oil.   I guess Canada should not export anything then.   Just enough for internal consumption....or are you happier consuming oil from Saudi Arabia given their exemplary environmental, human rights and workplace safety record over Canada's?   

 

Does your hypocrisy know any bounds at all?

[Rob_Zepp]

4 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

We know much more now about fossil fuels and climate change than what we knew when the original Kinder P line was constructed...

Humans are evolving..  well at least some of us are.... LOL 

Fossil fuels will remain a relevant energy source for at least the next 50 to 100 years - I prefer to carbon sequester associated with carbon energy but nuclear is the other main option (particular for northern climates like Canada).   Burning all of the oil Canada produces has less than a 1/10 of a percent contribution to emissions.   Symbolism over societal benefits like health care I guess in your books as long as you in your NIMBY life have what you want eh?

 

If evolution means becoming a NIMBY hypocritical selfish sort that is fine as long as you have what you want I'll pass thank you.

 

 

[kingofsurrey]

3 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Canada does export oil.   I guess Canada should not export anything then.   Just enough for internal consumption....or are you happier consuming oil from Saudi Arabia given their exemplary environmental, human rights and workplace safety record over Canada's?   

 

Does your hypocrisy know any bounds at all?

Those that feel the need to throw insults are probably those that have the most insecurities....

 

Is this accurate ?

[kingofsurrey]

Perhaps more canadians would support expanded exports of fossil fuels if they saw the CDN government INCreading support for Green energy at the same time......

 

Just a thought.