[Trade] Lightning trade J.T. Miller to Canucks for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd-round pick, 2020 conditional 1st-round pick

[CaptainLinden16]

Just now, Kanukfanatic said:

Maybe so. But I am still sick of putting fringe players into our top 6 to play with our best players such as Bo.  Miller gives us options. Hopefully JB can get us one more top 6 forward in UFA along with some help on the back end.

 

Edit: I have no interest in this team keeping goldy around.

I agree Goldy is as good as gone now, and he should be.  He did look very good with Petterson for a while.  The team is definitely getting heavier which I know a large contingent of the fan base will love Pearson, Horvat, Miller, Virtanen, Beagle, Lievo (if he is still around).   I would've preferred Lee if possible.

 

[WeneedLumme]

2 hours ago, danaimo said:

And this is the root of the problem.  Ott gave up a 1st get Duchene .  They flipped him to CBJ a year later and got the first round pick back (along with spare pieces).  While at OTT he was a point per game player.  How was this bad for OTT?

The player that COL got with that pick has done nothing yet and unless he plays 700+ games and puts up 500+ pts, COL lose that trade.  People are seduced by picks and over value them, especially first round picks.

Absolutely. The posters in this thread who are whining about this trade are thinking exactly like Homer, wanting the mystery box instead of the boat that the mystery box might contain. They think like magpies; anything shiny and new must be extremely valuable.

[oldnews]

6 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

why not sign Anders Lee for 7x7 then trade a 1st, Gaudette and Hutton for Risto?  Or whatever variables it would take.

 

More importantly, you can control the outcome.  If you cant sign Myers, Lee or whomever then you adjust your trade target.  Now that you have made the trade you have to laser in on the free agents.  This means paying top dollar and maybe still missing out.  You loose your flexibility.  You increase your odds of making a bad decision.  

there is one Anders Lee on the market, and one Ferland.

what makes you assume that Lee would land here - or that he's as good a fit as Miller (who is here for 21 million for 4 years, not 50 for 7.)

I much prefer Miller over any other pwf option.  Realistically it looked like the team would probably  have to placehold,  wait it out and draft a linemate for EP - they got out ahead of that in a good way imo.

 

If you're going to spend that money on Lee, why not spend it on Myers?

And what is to stop you from acquiring Ristolainen...."or whateve variables it would take"..... You assume that the 1st had to be involved, but that's not necessarily known.

I'll take the MIller deal - happily - and move on to the many more options they have to fill a spot on the right side. 

It was a more complicated piece of the puzzle to find a winger for EP imo - the right side has a lot of options - I'm not as concerned.

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by oldnews

[Dazzle]

Just now, CaptainLinden16 said:

I agree Goldy is as good as gone now, and he should be.  He did look very good with Petterson for a while.  The team is definitely getting heavier which I know a large contingent of the fan base will love Pearson, Horvat, Miller, Virtanen, Beagle, Lievo (if he is still around).   I would've preferred Lee if possible.

 

No, he is not "good as gone". The expectation is that Goldy comes in and plays his ass off to stay on the team. He IS an option for Pettersson which is why he's still around.

 

Eriksson on the other hand...

[WeneedLumme]

2 hours ago, Losing With Pride said:

A Tampa Fan would be over the moon. 

They shed salary to re-sign their RFAs and are guaranteed another first round pick in the next two years. 

 

That or they have another piece of currency they can use to acquire a different piece to take a run at a Stanley cup. 

A Tampa fan might be over the moon. Unless they think a little and realize that their group of small forwards who got bounced in the first round of the playoffs just got even smaller and softer. And given that the first round pick they are receiving is unlikely to be a high pick, there is a decent chance that it will amount to nothing at all.

[CaptainLinden16]

Just now, Dazzle said:

No, he is not "good as gone". The expectation is that Goldy comes in and plays his ass off to stay on the team. He IS an option for Pettersson which is why he's still around.

 

Eriksson on the other hand...

We just traded for Petterson's LW and he isn't playing with Horvat so wave bye bye to Goldy.  There is no room for him in the top 6 and he isn't playing bottom 6.

[Dazzle]

Just now, CaptainLinden16 said:

We just traded for Petterson's LW and he isn't playing with Horvat so wave bye bye to Goldy.  There is no room for him in the top 6 and he isn't playing bottom 6.

Nah, Goldy's an option much like Miller is. The real person who is byebye is Eriksson. If Goldy doesn't produce this season, then yes, he will be shipped out. To me, I am not convinced he is gone - not yet.

[CaptainLinden16]

Just now, oldnews said:

there is one Anders Lee on the market, and one Ferland.

what makes you assume that Lee would land here - or that he's as good a fit as Miller (who is here for 21 million for 4 years, not 50 for 7.)

I much prefer Miller over any other pwf option.  Realistically it looked like the team would probably  have to placehold,  wait it out and draft a linemate for EP - they got out ahead of that in a good way imo.

 

If you're going to spend that money on Lee, why not spend it on Myers?

And what is to stop you from acquiring Ristolainen...."or whateve variables it would take"..... You assume that the 1st had to be involved, but that's not necessarily known.

I'll take the MIller deal - happily - and move on to the many more options they have to fill a spot on the right side. 

It was a more complicated piece of the puzzle to find a winger for EP imo - the right side has a lot of options - I'm not as concerned.

 

Defensemen are always harder to acquire than forwards.  RHD are harder to acquire than LHD.  Offensive defensemen are harder to acquire than the defensive variety.  I don't really see your line of argument here that Miller was this magically unicorn that Jim stole.  He is a very good player at a great cap hit, but I cannot agree that what he brings is more difficult to acquire than a legitimate top 4 RHD with an offensive skill set.

 

[WolfxHaley]

I love how all these posters just assume that this player/ that player would sign here in free agency or this trade/that trade is even on the table. Too much video games for these kids, I understand this is a discussion but you’re crucifying people over theories and hypotheticals that we don’t even know if they even are/were options XD

[CaptainLinden16]

Just now, Dazzle said:

Nah, Goldy's an option much like Miller is. The real person who is byebye is Eriksson. If Goldy doesn't produce this season, then yes, he will be shipped out. To me, I am not convinced he is gone - not yet.

Miller is a LW and Pearson is a LW.  Where is Goldy going to play? Next to Beagle or Sutter?  I doubt Green flips him to RW even then it doesnt really get any easier for him.

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

Defensemen are always harder to acquire than forwards.

that may be a general truth , but it sure as hell isn't a contextual one - and when you further specify a pwf as opposed to just a forward, your point weakens more.

 

Look at the real options in the present and try to tell me a pwf is a more abundant, easier to acquire asset than a RHD and I'll say you're not really looking realistically at the market.

[Dazzle]

Just now, CaptainLinden16 said:

Miller is a LW and Pearson is a LW.  Where is Goldy going to play? Next to Beagle or Sutter?  I doubt Green flips him to RW even then it doesnt really get any easier for him.

Pearson, Miller and Goldy are going to be competing against each other, clearly, for top six spots. It also allows flexibility for the team to switch people around when they're having a bad game. Furthermore, Goldy's on a cheap contract. They need him to produce because they'll need all the cap space possible for Boeser and (later Petterson's) salary increases.

[CaptainLinden16]

Just now, WolfxHaley said:

I love how all these posters just assume that this player/ that player would sign here in free agency or this trade/that trade is even on the table. Too much video games for these kids, I understand this is a discussion but you’re crucifying people over theories and hypotheticals that we don’t even know if they even are/were options XD

thats overly simplistic to say.  You are saying because this event happened it was the only thing possible.  This is the definition of circular logic.  You are right as we don't have any knowledge of what happens in an NHL front office we cant say with any certainty what was possible.

 

What I do know is that Subban went for two 2nd's.  That was possible.  Maybe Barrie, Risto, Pesce was possible...Maybe not...I would've waited.

 

Also questioning the validity of a move like this is the entire reason this message board exists.  I am pretty sure this would be a boring read if it was a giant pat on the back session on here.  

 

I am open to having my mind changed.  

[Dazzle]

Just now, CaptainLinden16 said:

thats overly simplistic to say.  You are saying because this event happened it was the only thing possible.  This is the definition of circular logic.  You are right as we don't have any knowledge of what happens in an NHL front office we cant say with any certainty what was possible.

 

What I do know is that Subban went for two 2nd's.  That was possible.  Maybe Barrie, Risto, Pesce was possible...Maybe not...I would've waited.

 

Also questioning the validity of a move like this is the entire reason this message board exists.  I am pretty sure this would be a boring read if it was a giant pat on the back session on here.  

 

I am open to having my mind changed.  

Subban's 30 years old, just sayin'.

 

If we threw two 2nds, you can BET people will be all over the Canucks for throwing away assets.

 

People have been whining about throwing away a conditional 1st (lottery protected) for a proven top six forward at 26 years old at 5.25 Mill.

[theo5789]

7 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

Miller is a LW and Pearson is a LW.  Where is Goldy going to play? Next to Beagle or Sutter?  I doubt Green flips him to RW even then it doesnt really get any easier for him.

If Goldy could fit on a line with Bo and Pearson, it would be interesting. A couple of north-south guys creating space (and retrieving pucks) for a more creative guy with a decent shot in Goldobin. Pearson and Horvat are good enough defensively to mitigate Goldy's weakness here. Hopefully those guys' drive ignites Goldy. Worst case is he will be a placeholder for when Podkolzin is ready and keep him around long enough to intrigue Tryamkin to return.

Edited June 23, 2019 by theo5789

[Dazzle]

29 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

It is bad because that 1st they gave up was Bowen Byram. I understand they got a 1st back, but that pick had the chance of being Hughes...think the NHL did a solid making sure that didnt happen like they do by making sure Vancouver falls back every time

Hindsight is also 20/20. They had no way of knowing that they'd do worse THAT year versus Tkachuk. If they gave up the first year (Tkachuk) and did better the 2nd year, people would whine about how they 'should've waited'. You know how it goes.

[CaptainLinden16]

Just now, oldnews said:

that may be a general truth , but it sure as hell isn't a contextual one - and when you further specify a pwf as opposed to just a forward, your point weakens more.

 

Look at the real options in the present and try to tell me a pwf is a more abundant, easier to acquire asset than a RHD and I'll say you're not really looking realistically at the market.

Lee and Ferland are available free agents with comparable ability.  They only cost cash.  Hell what would Chris Krieder cost?  Maybe not much more and I wouldve rather had him than Miller.  

 

Its not just about the position or style on its own.  Its TEAM NEED too.  To this team the RHD is even more valuable than it would be from a general standpoint.  

 

Baertschi, Leivo, Granlund, Goldobin, Pearson isn't awful.  Pearson played well with Horvat and Baertschi if healthy is a solid top 6 guy.  To me Pearson and Baertschi is more effective in their roles than Tanev and Stecher.  To me Tanev and Stecher's roles are substantially more important.

[CaptainLinden16]

Just now, Dazzle said:

Subban's 30 years old, just sayin'.

 

If we threw two 2nds, you can BET people will be all over the Canucks for throwing away assets.

 

People have been whining about throwing away a conditional 1st (lottery protected) for a proven top six forward at 26 years old at 5.25 Mill.

You are right on all fronts, but thats what I wouldve wanted and preferred.  I know that is meaningless, but that is what we are essentially arguing.  What in your opinion is the best fit.  

 

I mean hell you could've done both trades.  I would've been happy as can be in that case.

[Dazzle]

Just now, CaptainLinden16 said:

Lee and Ferland are available free agents with comparable ability.  They only cost cash.  Hell what would Chris Krieder cost?  Maybe not much more and I wouldve rather had him than Miller.  

 

Its not just about the position or style on its own.  Its TEAM NEED too.  To this team the RHD is even more valuable than it would be from a general standpoint.  

 

Baertschi, Leivo, Granlund, Goldobin, Pearson isn't awful.  Pearson played well with Horvat and Baertschi if healthy is a solid top 6 guy.  To me Pearson and Baertschi is more effective in their roles than Tanev and Stecher.  To me Tanev and Stecher's roles are substantially more important.

So we are keeping the same top nine players that generally didn't do very good (with exception to Pearson picking it up near the end of the year)?

 

You make assumptions that we'd land the above players. What if we do? What if we don't? There's too many variables that can't really be judged at this point in time. Baertschi is also recovering from a concussion last season. There is no guarantee he will perform like he has in the past. If he gets injured again, we do not have the depth (as proven last season) to keep up with the horses of the NHL.

 

People are going to be whining regardless.

[CaptainLinden16]

Just now, Dazzle said:

So we are keeping the same top nine players that generally didn't do very good (with exception to Pearson picking it up near the end of the year)?

 

You make assumptions that we'd land the above players. What if we do? What if we don't? There's too many variables that can't really be judged at this point in time. Baertschi is also recovering from a concussion last season. There is no guarantee he will perform like he has in the past. If he gets injured again, we do not have the depth (as proven last season) to keep up with the horses of the NHL.

 

People are going to be whining regardless.

its true someone is unhappy at all times.  It might as well be me.  Hahahaha

 

You loose no flexibility in keeping the pick until after free agency.  Why the rush in making the decision now?  You simply reduce your ability to make a trade in the future.