D-Money Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 1 hour ago, N7Nucks said: I don't see how adding Beagle and Myers via free agency killed our chances at adding draft picks. And I'd argue that adding those guys is more beneficial than unused cap space. Beagle and Myers allow our defensive liability kids to play in fewer defensive situations. Look at our PK last season with no Beagle. And imagine if we traded Tanev like people wanted, that PK would have been historically bad earlier. And it was historically bad last season. You want our kids getting torched right out the gate for more draft picks? Or would you rather have Beagles, Myers, Edler and Tanev taking that heat? We torch other teams for throwing their kids to the fire and potentially ruining their development. And that's what you wanted our team to do? Do we have the current Horvat if we threw him out there immediately in a top 6 role? How does Hughes, Petey, and Boeser look without the defensive cushion that Miller, Myers, OEL, and Horvat provide? With Beagle and Tanev before them. In hindsight, the traded picks for middling prospects cost us. But at the time all those trades looked decent. Vey for a 2nd looked solid, Baer for a 2nd was a coup until injuries robbed Baer of a career. The risks of trading for those guys is the same as the risk of using those picks and drafting your own bust. For one, we traded a top-10 pick to dump Beagle and others. Secondly, although you don’t want your youth to get overwhelmed, there can be a benefit to having them learn to play those minutes in a season that is lost (which was every year but 2 under Benning). Third, you don’t need to pay a premium to acquire depth players right on July 1st. Wait it out, get some bargains on short term deals, and trade them for picks if the season is not going well. Watch what Anaheim gets for Klingberg next deadline. Much better than throwing over $6M per with term on Sam Gagner and Michael frickin Del Zotto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Devron said: It’s pretty damn good we could be way worse off. Your talking the perfect scenario which isn’t realistic. We could have had a couple more misses in the too draft but had some more depth pieces. We wouldn’t have as good of core. Pretty nice team that JR inherited There are a lot of teams that did it the right way: drafting well, accumulating assets, and avoiding bad contracts. Look at Colorado, who won the cup, while still having young studs coming up in Byram and Newhook. Just watch Detroit and Anaheim - they have nice young pieces, but are doing it slow. When they’re ready to contend, they’ll be deep, young, and have trade chips. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad alice french Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, D-Money said: For one, we traded a top-10 pick to dump Beagle and others. Secondly, although you don’t want your youth to get overwhelmed, there can be a benefit to having them learn to play those minutes in a season that is lost (which was every year but 2 under Benning). Third, you don’t need to pay a premium to acquire depth players right on July 1st. Wait it out, get some bargains on short term deals, and trade them for picks if the season is not going well. Watch what Anaheim gets for Klingberg next deadline. Much better than throwing over $6M per with term on Sam Gagner and Michael frickin Del Zotto. Well done. You're hired. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, D-Money said: For one, we traded a top-10 pick to dump Beagle and others. Secondly, although you don’t want your youth to get overwhelmed, there can be a benefit to having them learn to play those minutes in a season that is lost (which was every year but 2 under Benning). Third, you don’t need to pay a premium to acquire depth players right on July 1st. Wait it out, get some bargains on short term deals, and trade them for picks if the season is not going well. Watch what Anaheim gets for Klingberg next deadline. Much better than throwing over $6M per with term on Sam Gagner and Michael frickin Del Zotto. That money wasn't yours anyway. Lol. And the team wasn't gonna compete regardless. The vets helped those kids develop and I'd say was worth Aquaman's money. Also, we didn't trade a first just to dump Beagle. I dunno if you noticed but we got a minute munching top 4 D-man, that again takes pressure off Hughes and a 20 goal scorer with an edge. So you're gonna have to do better job of spinning a story when I also know the entirety of it. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, D-Money said: There are a lot of teams that did it the right way: drafting well, accumulating assets, and avoiding bad contracts. Look at Colorado, who won the cup, while still having young studs coming up in Byram and Newhook. Just watch Detroit and Anaheim - they have nice young pieces, but are doing it slow. When they’re ready to contend, they’ll be deep, young, and have trade chips. I agree but there also 25 other teams that have not really done that. Do I wish we were one of the few yes I do. But I also look at a team like LA do they have lots of depth cheap contracts sure. But I also see a lot of draft misses. Byfield, Turcotte, Kupari do not look good right now. Will they have the core pieces after Kopitar is gone. I don’t know 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 15 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: There is a good young core in place, significantly more than Benning started off with. Pettersson and Hughes are great players but 2 players don't make a core. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 8 hours ago, D-Money said: There are good young pieces, but we don’t have the depth in our system or cap flexibility to take full advantage of them. Basically, exactly what everyone was screaming from the rooftops when Jim was handing out millions to Beagle, Myers, etc, and not adding multiple picks in previous drafts. Exactly even Thomas Drance said this earlier in Sportsnet. The lack of players in the systems means Canucks have to pay more for players to support the team's young players. Even Edmonton and Calgary has a deeper prospect pool according to him. Which makes things challenging for Vancouver. You need to compete with these teams now but, at the same time, eventually catch up with the depth and prospects these teams have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, iinatcc said: Pettersson and Hughes are great players but 2 players don't make a core. That Demko sure sucks we need an upgrade. Miller, Horvat, Podkolzin, OEL? Useless. edit: last sentence was unnecessary. Edited September 14, 2022 by canuck73_3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: That Demko sure sucks we need an upgrade. Miller, Horvat, Podkolzin, OEL? Useless. Really must suck being so miserable all the time. I'm just arguing your point. Well you said young core. Demko will be 27 before this calendar year. Not exactly young in NHL standards. But ok let's put him in the young core category for argument sakes. Miller will be in his 30's, Horvat isn't too far behind and doesn't even have a extension. OEL isn't at the point in his career where you consider him as part of a core. Podkolzin, it's too early to tell we don't even know what he will be yet. I'm wouldn't pencil him as part of a core til I know he can perform and produce at a high level. Edit ... I think at this point the ones I'd consider being core players are Pettersson, Huges, Miller, Horvat and Demko. But Horvat's future with the Canucks still is uncertain beyond this season. Edited September 14, 2022 by iinatcc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastPast Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 9 hours ago, D-Money said: Third, you don’t need to pay a premium to acquire depth players right on July 1st. Wait it out, get some bargains on short term deals, and trade them for picks if the season is not going well. Watch what Anaheim gets for Klingberg next deadline. Much better than throwing over $6M per with term on Sam Gagner and Michael frickin Del Zotto. Interesting, could you go back and find some players that that would have been appropriate alternatives to, say, Michael Del Zotto at the time? Some of these inexpensive, suitably comparable players that were available to those prudent and patient teams. I assume you should have no problem rattling off a bunch of names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, BlastPast said: Interesting, could you go back and find some players that that would have been appropriate alternatives to, say, Michael Del Zotto at the time? Some of these inexpensive, suitably comparable players that were available to those prudent and patient teams. I assume you should have no problem rattling off a bunch of names. Nate Prosser signed a 2-year deal on August 3rd with a $650K cap hit. But even on July 1st, there were over 30 UFA defensemen signed, and only 7 had a cap hit of $3M+. Would we be that much worse off if we just signed a Matt Hunwick or Brad Hunt? Even if we struck out on AHL fodder, what difference did it really make? Regardless, we actually got a late pick for MDZ, so he wasn’t a total loss. Gagner, on the other hand… Edited September 14, 2022 by D-Money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastPast Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 5 hours ago, D-Money said: Nate Prosser signed a 2-year deal on August 3rd with a $650K cap hit. But even on July 1st, there were over 30 UFA defensemen signed, and only 7 had a cap hit of $3M+. Would we be that much worse off if we just signed a Matt Hunwick or Brad Hunt? Even if we struck out on AHL fodder, what difference did it really make? Regardless, we actually got a late pick for MDZ, so he wasn’t a total loss. Gagner, on the other hand… Note Prosser? He spent the majority of that second year in the minors. I am talking about comparable players, not merely guys who were cheaper. Hunt could have been an option but I imagine he was seen as riskier. What difference does it make? That question is a total demonstration of ignorance. There are some inaccuracies with the rest of your statement too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, BlastPast said: Note Prosser? He spent the majority of that second year in the minors. I am talking about comparable players, not merely guys who were cheaper. Hunt could have been an option but I imagine he was seen as riskier. What difference does it make? That question is a total demonstration of ignorance. There are some inaccuracies with the rest of your statement too. MDZ only played half the season the 2nd year. What’s your point? Inaccuracies? Really? OMG, sorry that I don't have extra hours to research the exact details of free agency 5 years ago. There were numerous public statements and articles over the years questioning Benning's free agency signings. It seemed almost unanimous among respected sources that he was doing things that would harm the team in the long run. And here we are… Edited September 14, 2022 by D-Money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastPast Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 4 hours ago, D-Money said: MDZ only played half the season the 2nd year. What’s your point? Inaccuracies? Really? OMG, sorry that I don't have extra hours to research the exact details of free agency 5 years ago. There were numerous public statements and articles over the years questioning Benning's free agency signings. It seemed almost unanimous among respected sources that he was doing things that would harm the team in the long run. And here we are… He played half the season because he got traded at the midpoint of the season. As for needing 'hours' to develop a more informed opinion, it took me less than a minute to look up the conditions of the 2017 UFA market for defensemen. I'm not talking about every signing as a basket of movements, I'm talking about a given contract as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King of Kings Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) . Edited October 25, 2022 by The King of Kings sorry, please delete this reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King of Kings Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 8/9/2020 at 1:14 PM, -Vintage Canuck- said: I could see this thread being active until J.T. Miller retires, similar to the Burrows? Do We Really Need Him? thread. Maybe it's the time to rename the topic of this thread to Miller? Do We Really Need Him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 9/13/2022 at 10:23 AM, Devron said: It’s pretty damn good we could be way worse off. Your talking the perfect scenario which isn’t realistic. We could have had a couple more misses in the too draft but had some more depth pieces. We wouldn’t have as good of core. Pretty nice team that JR inherited How about the cap situation and the depth issue, he mentioned cause injuries will happen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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