Goaltending Situation Going Forward

[DOOM]

Trading Demko would be a huge mistake; he has way too much upside.  I'm willing to bet he'll be pushing for the starting job at some point this season. 

[erkayloomeh]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Think Marky drives a Zambonie over Demko?  

I wouldn't bet against marky right now. That talent has always been there. Not sure why it took so long to show up but it here and he could maybe even get better. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Really? Goalies are the easiest position to fill? Backup goaltenders, absolutely, but not starting goaltenders. When was the last true #1 goaltender that got traded? 

Markstrom caliber guys?  Well Elliot owns the modern era record for lowest GAA and how many teams has  he played on?   Markstrom started last year ranked lower then many back-ups and pretty much every starter...yes he had a great season Dec on, but so have a hundred or so other goalies the last few decades.   Who has the record for modern day consecutive shutouts?  Remember his name?  Hint part of the ten year PHI revolving door fiasco.  

 

I really don’t think Markstroms done nearly enough to be considered a quality number one, those guys are consistent year in year out like Bishop (wasn’t he traded?).   Talbot...well he was great in NY but not so much in EDM.    Grueber.

 

I gather by your post you consider Markstrom a true number one.  Schneider who some had as a top five goalie at the time, definitely a top ten and very young, got a 9th overall.   No way Markstrom gets that.   Again Lacks sp was .920 during our time with us (what is Markstrom again overall?) and some thought he should get the reigns over a seasoned vet and he got some picks .... I think that’s the best we could expect unless we find a team maybe even Florida, who’s desperate and pays above market value.

 

There are only 62 goalie jobs available in the NHL....there are piles of goalies that if given the chance could do what the back-ups do, and some could even do better then mid-ranged number ones if given the chance.  Binnington case in point and last year Vegas was on their 4th stringer and still winning.   Look what happens year to year.   Look at how many rookie goalies that show so much promise (CLB Guy MasonTO guy Raycroft, PIT guy Murray) and then sink.  That’s why they Quick, Lundqvists, Luongo (not anymore), MAF, Rinne’s, Bobrovskies of the world are so valuable.  I agree those guys don’t often get traded.   

 

This year I’m sure their will be a different group of Vezina finalists...maybe some of the same guys from before and probably a new guy.   

 

Demkos stats aren’t far off Markstoms...sure he’s getting the easier teams though.  For us to get something good for him he needs to do what he did last year for at least one, if not two more years.   Look at Holtby, one day a Vezina goalie, the next year fighting for his job.  He’s got a way better pedigree, similar age, what do you think he’d cost in a trade like Markstrom he’s a UFA up for an new contract soon...and who would you rather have...

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

I wouldn't bet against marky right now. That talent has always been there. Not sure why it took so long to show up but it here and he could maybe even get better. 

Absolutely.   One of the higher touted goalies in recent memory, way more then Demko is/was.   Personally the difference to me is the soft goals he used to let in like clockwork sometime early in the game.  After that he usually locked in and played well.  Like a mental block or something...just taking that one element out of his game it makes him a solid goalie.  Don’t think he’s elite, but he definitely has the tools to be elite.  Wonder what management plans to do with this...a 5 x 4 contract seems reasonable but only if he keeps it up for another year.  Like to see him get more shutouts/steal entire games.  That’s one area that’s very weak still despite his better play.  

[ItTakesAnArmy]

Demko gets traded Sunday or Monday

[Bobby James]

I like Markstrom, but I think it would be good to trade him now. I think his value is the highest it has been and the return could be quite good. We can sign a solid 2nd guy to help Demko and I think while this is a risk it is worth doing for the long term. 

[GhostsOf1994]

Please elaborate and tell me more, for what and who and why?

44 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Demko gets traded Sunday or Monday

 

[MikeyD]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Markstrom caliber guys?  Well Elliot owns the modern era record for lowest GAA and how many teams has  he played on?   Markstrom started last year ranked lower then many back-ups and pretty much every starter...yes he had a great season Dec on, but so have a hundred or so other goalies the last few decades.   Who has the record for modern day consecutive shutouts?  Remember his name?  Hint part of the ten year PHI revolving door fiasco.  

 

I really don’t think Markstroms done nearly enough to be considered a quality number one, those guys are consistent year in year out like Bishop (wasn’t he traded?).   Talbot...well he was great in NY but not so much in EDM.    Grueber.

 

I gather by your post you consider Markstrom a true number one.  Schneider who some had as a top five goalie at the time, definitely a top ten and very young, got a 9th overall.   No way Markstrom gets that.   Again Lacks sp was .920 during our time with us (what is Markstrom again overall?) and some thought he should get the reigns over a seasoned vet and he got some picks .... I think that’s the best we could expect unless we find a team maybe even Florida, who’s desperate and pays above market value.

 

There are only 62 goalie jobs available in the NHL....there are piles of goalies that if given the chance could do what the back-ups do, and some could even do better then mid-ranged number ones if given the chance.  Binnington case in point and last year Vegas was on their 4th stringer and still winning.   Look what happens year to year.   Look at how many rookie goalies that show so much promise (CLB Guy MasonTO guy Raycroft, PIT guy Murray) and then sink.  That’s why they Quick, Lundqvists, Luongo (not anymore), MAF, Rinne’s, Bobrovskies of the world are so valuable.  I agree those guys don’t often get traded.   

 

This year I’m sure their will be a different group of Vezina finalists...maybe some of the same guys from before and probably a new guy.   

 

Demkos stats aren’t far off Markstoms...sure he’s getting the easier teams though.  For us to get something good for him he needs to do what he did last year for at least one, if not two more years.   Look at Holtby, one day a Vezina goalie, the next year fighting for his job.  He’s got a way better pedigree, similar age, what do you think he’d cost in a trade like Markstrom he’s a UFA up for an new contract soon...and who would you rather have...

I don't agree that Markstrom is a #1 quite yet, but if he plays the way he did last year this upcoming year then we would have a legitimate debate for him being a #1 goaltender. Cam Talbot was a backup in NY when he was traded and only got games because Henrik was injured, Bishop lost his job to Vasilevskiy but you could argue he was a #1 if it weren't for injury problems nagging him, Elliott maybe fits into that category but he never lived up to having the playoff mentality that he needed, but in large I agree with your post. Markstrom definitely is not a #1 goalie until he proves himself this season. If he does though, he'll likely net a 1st. Probably not a top 10 pick, but likely a top 20 is possible. 

At the end of the day, it's not as easy to get a goalie to bail your team out consistently in this league. Edmonton's been trying to since Talbot fell off, Ottawa, Calgary, Buffalo, the Isles up until last year, Arizona, Florida, Carolina, Dallas (up until last year), Colorado, Philly (up until Hart came into the picture recently) and other teams have largely been searching for a #1 for years. Not just a one here or there, for years they've been looking for a consistent backbone. In Vancouver, we've been super fortunate to have goalies fill those #1 spots in the past 15 years. We've had Lu, Schneider, Miller and Markstrom step up to the plate. Markstrom can definitely be a one-off like you've said and accurately point out. But if he proves not to be, then you either want to hold onto that or you better get good value in your trade because it likely takes years to get a #1 onto your team. Before Markstrom produced and after Miller we had what, 2-3 years of poor goaltending? Sometimes that can make the difference within your window of opportunity. 

But definitely a well thought out post on your end. I definitely agree with a lot of your logic for sure. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

I don't agree that Markstrom is a #1 quite yet, but if he plays the way he did last year this upcoming year then we would have a legitimate debate for him being a #1 goaltender. Cam Talbot was a backup in NY when he was traded and only got games because Henrik was injured, Bishop lost his job to Vasilevskiy but you could argue he was a #1 if it weren't for injury problems nagging him, Elliott maybe fits into that category but he never lived up to having the playoff mentality that he needed, but in large I agree with your post. Markstrom definitely is not a #1 goalie until he proves himself this season. If he does though, he'll likely net a 1st. Probably not a top 10 pick, but likely a top 20 is possible. 

At the end of the day, it's not as easy to get a goalie to bail your team out consistently in this league. Edmonton's been trying to since Talbot fell off, Ottawa, Calgary, Buffalo, the Isles up until last year, Arizona, Florida, Carolina, Dallas (up until last year), Colorado, Philly (up until Hart came into the picture recently) and other teams have largely been searching for a #1 for years. Not just a one here or there, for years they've been looking for a consistent backbone. In Vancouver, we've been super fortunate to have goalies fill those #1 spots in the past 15 years. We've had Lu, Schneider, Miller and Markstrom step up to the plate. Markstrom can definitely be a one-off like you've said and accurately point out. But if he proves not to be, then you either want to hold onto that or you better get good value in your trade because it likely takes years to get a #1 onto your team. Before Markstrom produced and after Miller we had what, 2-3 years of poor goaltending? Sometimes that can make the difference within your window of opportunity. 

But definitely a well thought out post on your end. I definitely agree with a lot of your logic for sure. 

Thanks I think we see things pretty much the same way.  It would be great for our team if Markstrom locks the door the first few months and we trade him later at the TDL for a first...Demko would also have to be lights out for Benning to consider this though, especially if we are in the playoffs.   I think maybe the following year he will get traded unless they want him around to avoid losing someone else in the expansion draft, either way it’s a win win for us, unless or course Seattle takes someone else anyways...so trading him might be the safest course.  

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, higgyfan said:

If Lind /Jadjovich (or anyone else) are playing well enough to replace Gaud, JT, Russel or Beagle, they would get protection and the players they are replacing (who may already be traded within the next 2 seasons) would be traded or left unprotected.  I don't have +++ faith in Gadj making the jump at that point, but I guess Lind migh have a shot.  I don't see any of the prospects that would be ED eligible by that time ever becoming a Karlsson or Theodore though.

 

Not sure about Juolevi, but if he does and he is playing like we think he can; he'd be protected for sure. If Tryamkin plays in 20/21 season he would be eligible for the ED.

 

It's hard to speculate as the ED is 2 seasons away and there will likely be some changes by then.  The Canucks look to be setting themselves up to make sure they don't lose a player that is important to the future of the team.

 

Agreed especially on the two years away thing.  Fans might be sleeping a little on Lind, he took some time to adjust to the change of pace, it’s a bit step going from juniors to playing in one of the best leagues in the world below the NHL.  He was also not 100% physically.  If things go right it wouldn’t surprise me if he takes a big step this year.  The thing about losing a Beagle or Rousell is they will both be close to the end of their careers by then, and really as placeholders anyways.  If Lind looks close by then or has already played some games it will make it tough for management.   OJ would really have to bomb to not get protected.   Tryamkin comes back we have to protect him too...which leaves one more defenseman...

[higgyfan]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Agreed especially on the two years away thing.  Fans might be sleeping a little on Lind, he took some time to adjust to the change of pace, it’s a bit step going from juniors to playing in one of the best leagues in the world below the NHL.  He was also not 100% physically.  If things go right it wouldn’t surprise me if he takes a big step this year.  The thing about losing a Beagle or Rousell is they will both be close to the end of their careers by then, and really as placeholders anyways.  If Lind looks close by then or has already played some games it will make it tough for management.   OJ would really have to bomb to not get protected.   Tryamkin comes back we have to protect him too...which leaves one more defenseman...

Only shows how much better the team is getting...I mean for Vegas it was Sbiza and Gaunce.  The great thing, is that if Lind can surpass and of the unprotected guys, it leaves JB in the position to make trades, because all of those guys are decent assets.  Although Beagle and Roussel are placeholders, they are also the kind of guys you want in  playoff situations, which is where the teams heading...right?  Good thigmg Seattle can only pick one player.

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Only shows how much better the team is getting...I mean for Vegas it was Sbiza and Gaunce.  The great thing, is that if Lind can surpass and of the unprotected guys, it leaves JB in the position to make trades, because all of those guys are decent assets.  Although Beagle and Roussel are placeholders, they are also the kind of guys you want in  playoff situations, which is where the teams heading...right?  Good thigmg Seattle can only pick one player.

Those guys are also easy to trade as rentals if they are healthy and still have gas in the tank..not that we’d do that if we are in the hunt this year, but the following one is a different story, especially if we need a few extra bucks in cap space going into the off season...