MP Chandra Arya wants to tax Canadians abroad!

[BPA]

49 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

isn't that abusing the social contract with the rest of us living here and paying taxes? 

I don't remember them signing any social contract with Canada. 

 

In any case, they have not broken any laws that I'm aware of.

[JM_]

Just now, BPA said:

I don't remember them signing any social contract with Canada. 

 

In any case, they have not broken any laws that I'm aware of.

so you think its OK for me to pay my taxes so your buddies can have healthcare later, having not paid into it? what am I getting out of it? 

 

[Toews]

11 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Lol what? 

You could argue it is racist but I would consider it more nativist. Even then overemotional and idiotic would probably be a better fit. Just as you nor I are not to blame for Canada's appalling history of human rights violations against the Indigenous peoples of Canada. It is just as illogical to attribute the failings of the Xi/Modi governments on Chinese/Indian immigrants. 

 

This proposed piece of legislation is a total crock of $&!# though. Affects me as I have worked abroad and plan to do so in the future. I can see the concern that some Canadians have that someone who doesn't have to pay taxes in this country can then take advantage of expensive social programs like healthcare. The situation reminds of Melnyk who is a resident of Barbados (for tax purposes) but feels the need to come to Canada to get his organ replaced. There aren't any great solutions to this problem. It is what it is, clearly Arya's solution creates more problems than it solves.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Toews

[BPA]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

so you think its OK for me to pay my taxes so your buddies can have healthcare later, having not paid into it? what am I getting out of it? 

 

Whether I think it's fair or not is irrelevant. 

 

They haven't broken any laws.  It's a loophole that they are taking advantage of.  They are making good coin overseas.  They spend $$ when they come back to visit.

 

What's the % of Canadians doing that?  Probably extremely small.  So it is nothing to be bothered over it.  Plenty of other stuff to worry about.

 

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, Toews said:

It is what it is, clearly Arya's solution creates more problems than it solves.

Maybe, however she has opened up the conversation, perhaps that leads to a proper solution.

As governments begin bailing out companies due to covid, I think every one would freak if JT or Drumpf for that matter, gave federal money to companies not even  registered in their country.

Cruise ships and freighter companies- vast majority registered in Monrovia and places like that. They avoided paying taxes that way, but still want government assistance; my take, go pound sand.

Same deal on a smaller scale, rich people hiding wealth, but still taking everything the homeland provides. Needs to be stopped.

It is good to see this conversation beginning.

[JM_]

Just now, BPA said:

Whether I think it's fair or not is irrelevant. 

 

They haven't broken any laws.  It's a loophole that they are taking advantage of.  They are making good coin overseas.  They spend $$ when they come back to visit.

 

What's the % of Canadians doing that?  Probably extremely small.  So it is nothing to be bothered over it.  Plenty of other stuff to worry about.

 

and thats the problem. Many of the rest of us paying into the system will see them as scammers, similar to how some real estate transactions have been viewed in BC. Whatever you think of them personally, they are taking advantage of the rest of us, legally or otherwise. 

 

6 minutes ago, Toews said:

This proposed piece of legislation is a total crock of $&!# though. Affects me as I have worked abroad and plan to do so in the future. I can see the concern that some Canadians have that someone who doesn't have to pay taxes in this country can then take advantage of expensive social programs like healthcare. The situation reminds of Melnyk who is a resident of Barbados (for tax purposes) but feels the need to come to Canada to get his organ replaced. There aren't any great solutions to this problem. It is what it is, clearly Arya's solution creates more problems than it solves.

 

I have no problem with a requirement that ex-pat's pay some sort of annual healthcare premium so that they are covered when they return OR have the choice to carry their own insurance upon arrival.

 

You could easily make it fair with time limits. Lets say someone wants to go earn out of country and also moves their residence. OK, if you do that for say more than 5 years you are then required to start paying into a health premium to maintain your access to universal coverage. 

 

We don't have to start messing around with income tax, but you shouldn't be able to take a free ride on the rest of us maintaining the system. I don't see this as a political thing at all, just basic fairness. 

[Bure_Pavel]

Its a good idea, America does it and it will help prevent free loading from working aboard then retiring here. Canada will have a tough time coming up with all the tax money to support the pensions of the baby boomers, and the younger generation will be stuck with the bill. Now the Covid bill as well.  

[BPA]

There are a lot of loopholes and things not fair.

 

What about longshoremen can claim EI when they make lots of $$ during the fishing season?

 

What about able bodied people collecting welfare checks?

 

What about criminals getting reduced sentences?

 

What about....

 

Life is unfair.  If Life was fair, then it'll be always sunshine and rainbows. 

 

Don't like the law, then get it changed.

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, BPA said:

Don't like the law, then get it changed

Interestingly enough that is exactly what the MP is suggesting.

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, BPA said:

There are a lot of loopholes and things not fair.

 

What about longshoremen can claim EI when they make lots of $$ during the fishing season?

 

What about able bodied people collecting welfare checks?

 

What about criminals getting reduced sentences?

 

What about....

 

Life is unfair.  If Life was fair, then it'll be always sunshine and rainbows. 

 

Don't like the law, then get it changed.

not sure you want to lump in your friends into that group. Whats wrong with getting them to pay something into the system they plan to depend on? 

[canuckster19]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't think its so much that, as people not paying into the system and then using it once its convenient for them. You'd think conservatives would want to take a look at that.

 

Lets de-poltiicize it for a second. Should someone be allowed to never pay taxes, and then at some point come back and be a drain on our system? 

 

If you're a non-resident you do have to re-establish your residency before getting 'free' healthcare, so there's that at least. In the meantime you pay out of pocket or need insurance coverage unless I'm missing something there. 

 

I see this as more of a social contract problem, than some sort of lefty-righty thing. 

If I came back to Canada when I retired, bought a house, and spending my retirement fund... IN CANADA, why should I have to pay an extra fee? You can easily make the argument there are other expats living in Canada who leave when they retire and they themselves are not reaping the benefits of what they put in, should Canada hand them a cheque on the way out saying, "here's your refund, sorry you aren't staying with us".

Edited May 11, 2020 by canuckster19

[Gurn]

9 minutes ago, canuckster19 said:

who leave when they retire and they themselves are not reaping the benefits of what they put in, should Canada hand them a cheque on the way out saying, "here's your refund, sorry you aren't staying with us".

 

One problem at a time, please.

[Violator]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

isn't that abusing the social contract with the rest of us living here and paying taxes? 

Same type of people that sit on ei in another country.

[canuckster19]

5 minutes ago, Violator said:

Same type of people that sit on ei in another country.

I spend 100s of dollars every year in Canada even if I don't step into the country, are you going to quantify that somehow?

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, canuckster19 said:

If I came back to Canada when I retired, bought a house, and spending my retirement fund... IN CANADA, why should I have to pay an extra fee? You can easily make the argument

 

there are other expats living in Canada who leave when they retire and they themselves are not reaping the benefits of what they put in, should Canada hand them a cheque on the way out saying, "here's your refund, sorry you aren't staying with us".

because you likely won't cover the costs of your care. You've spent your healthiest earning years in another country and gave up your residence status. Now you want to come back and sponge off the rest of us. 

 

Also, you've just made a requirement of " bought a house, and spending my retirement fund" - so you're already recognizing that it shouldn't be a free ride, something needs to be put back in to the system.

 

If those other country ex-pats are here as residents then they are paying taxes and have the benefit of our health system, no cheque needed when they leave. 

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, Violator said:

Same type of people that sit on ei in another country.

I can see people start equating this with things like birth tourism as well, fairly or not. 

 

If ex-pats don't pay something into the system this thing could get very ugly if it starts to become a bigger issue. 

[BPA]

21 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

not sure you want to lump in your friends into that group. Whats wrong with getting them to pay something into the system they plan to depend on? 

Not really friends.  More like acquaintances.   If the law gets changed then so be it.  If not, then OK too.  Like I said, I got enough going on to worry about than a extremely small % of Canadians working abroad with a view to come back in their old age. 

 

Who knows, maybe working abroad for so long, they don't even retire in Canada.  The future is unpredictable that way.

[canuckster19]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

because you likely won't cover the costs of your care. You've spent your healthiest earning years in another country and gave up your residence status. Now you want to come back and sponge off the rest of us. 

 

Also, you've just made a requirement of " bought a house, and spending my retirement fund" - so you're already recognizing that it shouldn't be a free ride, something needs to be put back in to the system.

 

If those other country ex-pats are here as residents then they are paying taxes and have the benefit of our health system, no cheque needed when they leave. 

Yeah, exactly you think there are going to be any ex-pats who come back purely to sponge, and if there are, you think Canada should punish the rest of the expats who don't?

 

I mean I know your worldly views with regards to foreigners, it seems you're applying a double standard here knowing your posting history, this isn't a critique of your opinions, merely me presenting my own.

 

Yeah they don't need a cheque on the way out, you don't think that sort of balances out with people going out and people coming in?

[JM_]

Just now, canuckster19 said:

Yeah, exactly you think there are going to be any ex-pats who come back purely to sponge, and if there are, you think Canada should punish the rest of the expats who don't?

 

I mean I know your worldly views with regards to foreigners, it seems you're applying a double standard here knowing your posting history, this isn't a critique of your opinions, merely me presenting my own.

 

Yeah they don't need a cheque on the way out, you don't think that sort of balances out with people going out and people coming in?

my what now? 

 

Who's being "punished"? If its applied equally to all citizens who choose to become ex-pats then its fair. You want to have Canada as a back up plan, and thats great. But you also shouldn't expect that to be free. 

[canuckster19]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

my what now? 

 

Who's being "punished"? If its applied equally to all citizens who choose to become ex-pats then its fair. You want to have Canada as a back up plan, and thats great. But you also shouldn't expect that to be free. 

So why are foreign expats not being paid on the way out for giving their best years to Canada but not reaping the later in life benefits, I'm sorry I don't get how you think that doesn't balance, that to me is the Canadian taxpayer saying I want to have my cake, eat it too, oh is there some left?

Edited May 11, 2020 by canuckster19