MP Chandra Arya wants to tax Canadians abroad!

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, BPA said:

Not really friends.  More like acquaintances.   If the law gets changed then so be it.  If not, then OK too.  Like I said, I got enough going on to worry about than a extremely small % of Canadians working abroad with a view to come back in their old age. 

 

Who knows, maybe working abroad for so long, they don't even retire in Canada.  The future is unpredictable that way.

its just about fairness. After 70, the average cost per year is over $10,000 per person. It goes up to $20,000 per year after 80. Thats a lot of money. If ex-pats paid a small sum to maintain coverage during their younger high earning years that would be fairly covered later on. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, canuckster19 said:

So why are foreign expats not being paid on the way out for giving their best years to Canada but not reaping the later in life benefits, I'm sorry I don't get how you think that doesn't balance, that to me is the Canadian taxpayer saying I want to have my cake, eat it too, oh is there some left?

I just explained it to you. They had access to our health system while they were here if they were paying taxes. 

[BPA]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its just about fairness. After 70, the average cost per year is over $10,000 per person. It goes up to $20,000 per year after 80. Thats a lot of money. If ex-pats paid a small sum to maintain coverage during their younger high earning years that would be fairly covered later on. 

Lol.  Life isn't fair.  I told you that already. 

 

 

[24K PureCool]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its just about fairness. After 70, the average cost per year is over $10,000 per person. It goes up to $20,000 per year after 80. Thats a lot of money. If ex-pats paid a small sum to maintain coverage during their younger high earning years that would be fairly covered later on. 

So would I get a refund and interest on those tax money if say I decide to remain out of Canada in retirement? Otherwise it is going to be a tax on Canadian citizenship that would go against my rights. 

 

This is going to create a whole can of worms that I doubt anyone would want to get into. 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, BPA said:

Lol.  Life isn't fair.  I told you that already. 

 

 

OK, well remember that when there's blowback on your acquaintances. 

[canuckster19]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its just about fairness. After 70, the average cost per year is over $10,000 per person. It goes up to $20,000 per year after 80. Thats a lot of money. If ex-pats paid a small sum to maintain coverage during their younger high earning years that would be fairly covered later on. 

 

So Lars Johansson (60) leaves Canada for Sweden about the same time as I (pretend I'm 60) return from Sweden to Canada, you don't think we get to "trade"? We should both have to "pay to play" so to speak? 

 

We both made about the same amount of money in our lifetime, we both lived abroad roughly the same amount.

Edited May 11, 2020 by canuckster19

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

So would I get a refund and interest on those tax money if say I decide to remain out of Canada in retirement? Otherwise it is going to be a tax on Canadian citizenship that would go against my rights. 

 

This is going to create a whole can of worms that I doubt anyone would want to get into. 

why would you get a refund? or be against your rights? you paid your taxes, and had access. If you then make a choice to leave, thats your decision. No one in government made you leave. 

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

This is going to create a whole can of worms that I doubt anyone would want to get into. 

Personally I do hope the government looks into this. 

I applaud the MP for taking a chance, and bringing this up for discussion, hopefully by people that can actually control the outcome.

[Ballisticsports.]

58 minutes ago, canuckster19 said:

If I came back to Canada when I retired, bought a house, and spending my retirement fund... IN CANADA, why should I have to pay an extra fee? You can easily make the argument there are other expats living in Canada who leave when they retire and they themselves are not reaping the benefits of what they put in, should Canada hand them a cheque on the way out saying, "here's your refund, sorry you aren't staying with us".

I would think that would depend on how much you supported being a Canadian before

If you were only borne here and never worked here

I think being a Canadian is not just because you were born here

So you come back to hopefully get a pension, health care?

You believe spending your retirement fund now covers that and makes you Canadian?

Then we my as well call tourists Canadians and give them the same deal ,

 

Seriously getting a refund? Do you get a refund on your car insurance or your house insurance if you don't make a claim?

I pay school taxes and have no children and won't complain of supporting our way of life and society

What about the Proud to be Canadian and support it, instead of entitlement being more important

Edited May 11, 2020 by ba;;isticsports

[JM_]

1 minute ago, canuckster19 said:

 

So Lars Johansson (60) leaves Canada for Sweden about the same time as I (pretend I'm 60) return from Sweden to Canada, you don't think we get to "trade"? We should both have to "pay to play" so to speak?

I'm sure people in Sweden would like Lars to pay his way somehow. Lars made a free choice, as did you. 

 

Paying your fair share into the system you want to use is a pretty basic concept. 

[Down by the River]

52 minutes ago, BPA said:

There are a lot of loopholes and things not fair.

 

What about longshoremen can claim EI when they make lots of $$ during the fishing season?

 

What about able bodied people collecting welfare checks?

 

What about criminals getting reduced sentences?

 

What about....

 

Life is unfair.  If Life was fair, then it'll be always sunshine and rainbows. 

 

Don't like the law, then get it changed.

It is like you're being purposefully obtuse. 

 

I don't get your point about pointing out that lots of loopholes exist. Does that mean that people aren't allowed to fix one problem because there are lots of other ones? You start somewhere. 

[Down by the River]

13 minutes ago, BPA said:

Lol.  Life isn't fair.  I told you that already. 

 

 

So you're saying that when life isn't fair you should just lay down and take it? That sounds pretty cowardly and defeatist to me. 

[canuckster19]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm sure people in Sweden would like Lars to pay his way somehow. Lars made a free choice, as did you. 

 

Paying your fair share into the system you want to use is a pretty basic concept. 

Yeah and getting your fair share out of the system is a basic concept as well, why me and Lars can't hypothetically trade our pieces of cake according to you makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, canuckster19 said:

Yeah and getting your fair share out of the system is a basic concept as well, why me and Lars can't hypothetically trade our pieces of cake according to you makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

Thats because there's no way for Lars to access the Canadian system when he moves home to Sweden. You want me to pay for Lars freely made choice, thats what makes no sense. Lars made a choice to go work in another country, Lars made the choice to go home to Sweden. Lars didn't ask my permission. 

[Gurn]

7 minutes ago, canuckster19 said:

Yeah and getting your fair share out of the system is a basic concept as well, why me and Lars can't hypothetically trade our pieces of cake according to you makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

Are you and Lars a true swap, in income and health concerns? Or are you just a one person for one person trade, without considering the other variables?

[JM_]

Just now, gurn said:

Are you and Lars a true swap, in income and health concerns? Or are you just a one person for one person trade, without considering the other variables?

Also while Lars was here, he did have access to the system. If Lars needed a new heart, e.g., Lars would have got one. 

[canuckster19]

8 minutes ago, gurn said:

Are you and Lars a true swap, in income and health concerns? Or are you just a one person for one person trade, without considering the other variables?

My hypothetical was that our tax income and net benefit were the same, maybe he got a heart transplant and I got a dozen small things, doesn't matter.

 

My point is, if you look on the whole, of expats coming in and going out, in any western country, you'll probably see a negligible difference from country to country, why people should have to pay on something that isn't actually affecting the bottom line makes zero sense to me.

 

And if it somehow is affecting the bottom line, then they need to go after the people who are abusing the system.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by canuckster19

[JM_]

1 minute ago, canuckster19 said:

My hypothetical was that our tax income and net benefit were the same, maybe he got a heart transplant and I got a dozen small things, doesn't matter.

 

My point is, if you look on the whole, of expats coming in and going out, in any western country, you'll probably see a negligible difference from country to country, why people should have to pay on something that isn't actually affecting the bottom line makes zero sense to me.

 

And if it somehow is affecting the bottom line, then they need to go after the people who are abusing the system.

 

 

but you need a mechanism of some sort to do that. It would be far more cost effective for ex-pats to simply pay a small fee to maintain their health access. And it can be a choice btw, if you don't want to pay it fine, but then you need to cover your own insurance if you ever decide to come back.

 

If Canada is your 'plan B' then really I have zero sympathy for Lars, as I suspect a lot of other taxpayers would feel, regardless of political stripe. 

[canuckster19]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

but you need a mechanism of some sort to do that. It would be far more cost effective for ex-pats to simply pay a small fee to maintain their health access. And it can be a choice btw, if you don't want to pay it fine, but then you need to cover your own insurance if you ever decide to come back.

 

If Canada is your 'plan B' then really I have zero sympathy for Lars, as I suspect a lot of other taxpayers would feel, regardless of political stripe. 

You literally said a few posts ago the system should be fair though, how is that fair?

[24K PureCool]

35 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

why would you get a refund? or be against your rights? you paid your taxes, and had access. If you then make a choice to leave, thats your decision. No one in government made you leave. 

 

8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

but you need a mechanism of some sort to do that. It would be far more cost effective for ex-pats to simply pay a small fee to maintain their health access. And it can be a choice btw, if you don't want to pay it fine, but then you need to cover your own insurance if you ever decide to come back.

 

If Canada is your 'plan B' then really I have zero sympathy for Lars, as I suspect a lot of other taxpayers would feel, regardless of political stripe. 

For an expat this system would essentially force me to pay for an insurance that he/she may never want to use but still has to pay to keep Canadian citizenship that he/she cannot renounce if it is the only citizenship he/she has.

 

As a previous poster mentioned, it may be more prudent to charge premium or extra premium to expats when re-establishing residency than playing around with income tax which is already convoluted as it is when dealing with foreign income. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by 24K PureCool