peaches5 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, oldnews said: I might be inclined to tell him we are not trading him if his agent doesn't find a very acceptable option/deal. You're not getting bought out. We're not spending big assets to dump your contract. You will be riding a bus in Utica. Period. If you don't report, your contract will be terminated. Ball is in your court. He's been literally that consistently underperforming relative to his cap that he really needs to consider retirement. That's the honorable thing to do. He's a 15th man ffs. Has that sunken in yet. No one is asking him to do us a 'favour' - realistically, he is not a 'two way' player anymore - he produces next to nothing (13 pts this year). He's a good defensive forward - but he's not a shutdown forward of the ilk of a Beagle, Sutter or Motte - so he's essentially a second tier defensive forward, making 6 million. His best chance to actually play might be to agree to mutual termination and then sign a reasonable placeholder deal elsewhere - if he's so determined not to "quit". The alternative is probably the AHL - and might be in any event. I'm not sure what kind of deal Barry is hoping to find, but it ought to give him a realistic assessment of the extent to which his contract represents negative value. Perhaps after a dose of that reality, he might reconsider. He doesn't even have to quit or retire - he has to make it a realistic possibility that a team would take him on to keep him in the NHL - he can't expect the Canucks to part with excessive assets to make that happen. He must understand he hasn't lived up to his contract. It's to the point now where if he can get a deal from an NHL team it would be better than just collecting $$$. But who knows he might care more about the money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, peaches5 said: He must understand he hasn't lived up to his contract. It's to the point now where if he can get a deal from an NHL team it would be better than just collecting $$$. But who knows he might care more about the money. if he cares more about the money then he'll be comfortable riding buses in the AHL. he might get lucky - if there is no AHL season due to covid, otherwise, prepare to ride for your money. I guess there is another underlying reality here. The Canucks have other ways of creating potential cap space. For example - who do you value more - Pearson or Gaudette? Because it could be viewed as an option between 1) adding Gaudette to a deal to move Eriksson, or 2) moving Pearson instead. What kind of return could Pearson bring? Moving Pearson and assigning Eriksson to the AHL....comparable cap gains. Second -what would be the price of dumping Roussel and Benn? Would they go for a late pick? Would they be claimed on waivers? If you couldn't move them, what would be the cost to? I venture to guess that it would not cost as much as dumping Eriksson, and the near 5 million in cap they represent, combined with assigning LE...again...gain comparable flexibility, although you'd have to replace them with lower cost alternatives to secure cap gain (which I believe they could - so whether it's 4 or 6 million they gain, that's a considerable chunk, and possibly enough flexibility to complete any plans they have for this offseason). Or what if they dumped Roussel, and Benn and replaced one of their RFAs (speculated to be worth 2.5 ish to 3 million to re-sign - with a prospect or inexpensive placeholder? The market will be deflated - not all the UFAs out there hoping for decent contracts are going to get one - too many teams will be strapped and tight for cap - others will be tight with cash - expiring players are likely to take a hit on the bottom line, so I won't be surprised if there are a fair amount of one year, reasonable deals to be made with relatively viable depth players. In which scenario is the cost of creating some cap for Tanev, Toffoli and/or Markstrom the greatest? It could very well be the dumping Eriksson scenario, so what's the team's incentive to pursue that option first and foremost? You hate to play 'hardball' with your own players - or an agent that has for a long time represented franchise friendly players like the Sedins, but you also have to do what is best for the franchise, and that might actually translate into Eriksson in the AHL, whether or not the intent is to persuade LE to agree to mutual termination. If his real option is refuse to 'quit' and ride busses, or terminate, sign a reasonable deal and play an NHL depth role, which would he choose? Edited September 20, 2020 by oldnews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 9 hours ago, peaches5 said: It's 5.6m then 3.6 then 600k for 2 years.. it can work depending on what team you want to ice this year. For a team to acquire him and then buy him out.. the owner only has to pay 2.6m so it then come down to how much does 2.6m get you? 3.6M. He has a 1M bonus in 2021/22 and that amount will be due in full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, mll said: 3.6M. He has a 1M bonus in 2021/22 and that amount will be due in full. Yea, I see capgeek has a separate category for the bonus but okay Marleau was owned 6.5m so a 3rd round pick is what 3.6m should buy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, peaches5 said: Yea, I see capgeek has a separate category for the bonus but okay Marleau was owned 6.5m so a 3rd round pick is what 3.6m should buy! 3.8M. 3M in bonus and 2/3rds of 1.25M. Edited September 20, 2020 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 minute ago, mll said: 3.8M. 3M in bonus and 2/3rds of 1.25M. https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/loui-eriksson $2,666,667 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Just now, peaches5 said: https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/loui-eriksson $2,666,667 The 3.8M was Marleau's buyout cost - his bonus of 3M + 2/3rds of his remaining salary. He had an age 35+ contract so the buyout cap hit with 1 year left was simply 1x his cap hit. The buyout cost is still the same as a regular buyout. CapFriendly on the Carolina page shows Marleau's buyout still on their books for this season. It's a zero cap hit but he is still getting some 416K from Carolina as part of the buyout - he received 3.416M last season for a total of 3.8M. An Eriksson buyout is 3.66M - 1M for his 2021/22 bonus + 2/3rds of the remaining 4M in salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, peaches5 said: https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/loui-eriksson $2,666,667 Oh God. A Nylander buyout would be $3,333,333 x 8 years. Now THAT. is some serious handicap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, mll said: The 3.8M was Marleau's buyout cost - his bonus of 3M + 2/3rds of his remaining salary. He had an age 35+ contract so the buyout cap hit with 1 year left was simply 1x his cap hit. The buyout cost is still the same as a regular buyout. CapFriendly on the Carolina page shows Marleau's buyout still on their books for this season. It's a zero cap hit but he is still getting some 416K from Carolina as part of the buyout - he received 3.416M last season for a total of 3.8M. An Eriksson buyout is 3.66M - 1M for his 2021/22 bonus + 2/3rds of the remaining 4M in salary. oh okay I see what you're saying now. Yea makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 If a team has cap space and needs a penalty killer I really believe we could tade him for a 7th and not have to attach someone like Virtanen for a cap dump. He is a lot more tradeable than most think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Brock Botanen said: If a team has cap space and needs a penalty killer I really believe we could tade him for a 7th and not have to attach someone like Virtanen for a cap dump. He is a lot more tradeable than most think I think that's extremely, overly optimistic - and would have transpired already were that the case. He may be useful to teams that are financially challenged, maybe even moreso/particularly with the covid developments - however, at the same time, there is also a proportionate league-wide need to move cap...which means that the minority of teams seeking these kinds of contracts, their interest is probably mitigated by the various gains they can make by letting the demand/need to move cap increase their leverage. I think it's a wiser move to go into a negotiation far more aggressively than acting like his contract does not represent significant negative value to a team like ours - as if he might be claimed off waivers, but we'll throw in a marginal 7th as a sweetener - I think you're isolating factors in an evaluation like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundernuts Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 https://www.traderumours.com/Loui-Eriksson-hoping-to-be-traded-by-the-Canucks-24988 Not sure if it's been mentioned here yet. According to TSN insider Pierre LeBrun, Loui Eriksson’s agent JP Barry has the green light from the Vancouver Canucks to call other teams directly and try to find his client a new home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, thundernuts said: https://www.traderumours.com/Loui-Eriksson-hoping-to-be-traded-by-the-Canucks-24988 Not sure if it's been mentioned here yet. According to TSN insider Pierre LeBrun, Loui Eriksson’s agent JP Barry has the green light from the Vancouver Canucks to call other teams directly and try to find his client a new home. Interesting, but I wonder if this website/blog is just basing this claim on the same LeBrun source I posted in the OP? He doesn't quite say there's a green light, but maybe there's been an update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundernuts Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Teemu Selänne said: Interesting, but I wonder if this website/blog is just basing this claim on the same LeBrun source I posted in the OP? He doesn't quite say there's a green light, but maybe there's been an update Could be, I couldn't find it anywhere else, and I'm not sure how reliable this website is. I wouldn't be surprised if permission was given though. It isn't uncommon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, thundernuts said: Could be, I couldn't find it anywhere else, and I'm not sure how reliable this website is. I wouldn't be surprised if permission was given though. It isn't uncommon. Yea, it wouldn't surprise me either, it would be for the best IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundernuts Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 46 minutes ago, Teemu Selänne said: Yea, it wouldn't surprise me either, it would be for the best IMO. Perhaps this will lead to a mutual termination of the contract. Not too sure how the rules on tampering would apply in a case like this. If there are teams that are interested, but not at his current cap hit, maybe this is a way to gauge that. Terminate the current contract, then sign anywhere he is able, potentially for similar real dollars (2.5 million per season) - likely less. In the end, it will depend what his true desire is. To play in the NHL for whatever he is able to get, or to get the 5 million he is owed. If there is no interest from other teams, then the choice is simple - get the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, thundernuts said: Perhaps this will lead to a mutual termination of the contract. Not too sure how the rules on tampering would apply in a case like this. If there are teams that are interested, but not at his current cap hit, maybe this is a way to gauge that. Terminate the current contract, then sign anywhere he is able, potentially for similar real dollars (2.5 million per season) - likely less. In the end, it will depend what his true desire is. To play in the NHL for whatever he is able to get, or to get the 5 million he is owed. If there is no interest from other teams, then the choice is simple - get the money. It's to arrange a trade of his current contract - not mutual termination and signing elsewhere. That would be considered cap circumvention. Canucks could have fines counting against the salary cap and even lose draft picks. Edited September 22, 2020 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, thundernuts said: Perhaps this will lead to a mutual termination of the contract. Not too sure how the rules on tampering would apply in a case like this. If there are teams that are interested, but not at his current cap hit, maybe this is a way to gauge that. Terminate the current contract, then sign anywhere he is able, potentially for similar real dollars (2.5 million per season) - likely less. In the end, it will depend what his true desire is. To play in the NHL for whatever he is able to get, or to get the 5 million he is owed. If there is no interest from other teams, then the choice is simple - get the money. Yep for sure. Barry also reps a few other players whose contracts aren't a fit with their current team, incl. Karl Alzner, Olli Matta, Victor Rask, Alex Kerfoot. Barry obviously has a lot of connections around the league so maybe he will manage a favour or something as well. And I agree, it's a good way to gauge interest. Hopefully he finds something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, mll said: It's to arrange a trade of his current contract - not mutual termination and signing elsewhere. That's would be considered cap circumvention. Canucks could have fines counting against the salary cap and even lose draft picks. I don’t see how that would be cap circumvention or tampering. We are able to give permission for his agent to talk to teams. Does it say somewhere that they couldn’t talk about “well if you were a free agent, we would be interested....” Edited September 22, 2020 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayinblack Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Worst case scenario (if we can't trade LE this off season).... AHL for 20/21, get him to waive his NTC (if it still applies), and send Seattle a sweetener to take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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