canuck73_3 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, awalk said: I just read a comment from you in another thread about not gate keeping, and yet here you are calling people pathetic for wanting to discuss what many of us think was one of the worst trades in Canucks history? Is that not what a discussion forum is for? An observation is not gate keeping you're reaching. One player can not carry a team that is fact, ergo not gate keeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: An observation is not gate keeping you're reaching. One player can not carry a team that is fact, ergo not gate keeping. No, but suggesting it's pathetic to be discussing it is what I was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, awalk said: No, but suggesting it's pathetic to be discussing it is what I was referring to. I never said it is pathetic to discuss it sorry your comprehension is lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said: I never said it is pathetic to discuss it sorry your comprehension is lacking. I seem to have upset you but there's no need to be rude. This is what I read and am referring to "the micro analyzing here is hilarious to pathetic at times' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: Look at Karlsson in SJ right now playing lights out, the Sharks are still dogshit. One player can only do so much the micro analyzing here is hilarious to pathetic at times. It’s a huge pet peeve how the social media fanbase loves to just pick on one or two guys. Meanwhile, 3/4 of the team is untradable because of how poorly the team has played. We likely get value for: Bo, Hughes, Petey, Kuzmenko and Schenn. Due to contracts / team play I’m not sure anyone else is bringing back a return - maybe some contract for contract stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 6 hours ago, ilduce39 said: Take OEL out and replace him with any defenceman in the league. Is the team magically transformed into a playoff-lock contender? Of course not. The issues in the locker room are way deeper than any one player and need to be addressed before you can really tell how anyone has “declined” or whatever. He’s probably just bummed out that he left Arizona for an even bigger mess. I'd argue there are MANY much more efficient ways to spent the 7.26m this season that would help the team. But that's not even close to being the point. He's an anchor that will weigh this team down for FOUR more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 hours ago, awalk said: I seem to have upset you but there's no need to be rude. This is what I read and am referring to "the micro analyzing here is hilarious to pathetic at times' Yes, it is. But feel free to discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 34 minutes ago, dougieL said: I'd argue there are MANY much more efficient ways to spent the 7.26m this season that would help the team. But that's not even close to being the point. He's an anchor that will weigh this team down for FOUR more years. That wasn’t my comment though - people act like OEL is getting in the way of the team’s success and he isn’t. Over the next four years he’ll get better if the team gets better. He played well last season. This year he’s putting up more points. The entire team can’t defend. It’a dumb to just point the finger at one guy when it’s clearly a team issue. He can’t do it all himself. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: That wasn’t my comment though - people act like OEL is getting in the way of the team’s success and he isn’t. Over the next four years he’ll get better if the team gets better. He played well last season. This year he’s putting up more points. The entire team can’t defend. It’a dumb to just point the finger at one guy when it’s clearly a team issue. He can’t do it all himself. Do you watch the games? OEL is a major roadblock to this team's success. Being paid like a top pairing defenseman but performing like a #4 does that to teams. It's not really rocket science bud. A lot of denial/copium throughout this forum I see. Edited December 21, 2022 by JohnTavares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 26 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: That wasn’t my comment though - people act like OEL is getting in the way of the team’s success and he isn’t. Over the next four years he’ll get better if the team gets better. He played well last season. This year he’s putting up more points. The entire team can’t defend. It’a dumb to just point the finger at one guy when it’s clearly a team issue. He can’t do it all himself. The league will only get faster over the next four years, and I don't see OEL magically picking up a step. His lack of speed has already been quite evident this season. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 15 hours ago, dougieL said: Harman Dayal on the Vancast called this trade a nightmare, and we're not even 2 years into OELs decline. This is going to be the worst trade in franchise history when it's all said and done. Acquiring a cap anchor for 6 years while giving up a 2nd round pick and a top 10 pick. Garland... has been so "meh" this year he's not even worth mentioning. He's probably another cap anchor right now too. Wow this trade is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 minute ago, JohnTavares said: This is going to be the worst trade in franchise history when it's all said and done. Acquiring a cap anchor for 6 years while giving up a 2nd round pick and a top 10 pick. Garland... has been so "meh" this year he's not even worth mentioning. He's probably another cap anchor right now too. Wow this trade is bad. Yeah the fact that we gave up assets to acquire what everyone knew to be an anchor contract was literally one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, dougieL said: The league will only get faster over the next four years, and I don't see OEL magically picking up a step. His lack of speed has already been quite evident this season. It's pretty apparent who watches games and who doesn't. OEL does not have the footspeed anymore to be a legitimate top 4 defenseman. He'll be serviceable as a bottom pairing defenseman vet on a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, dougieL said: Yeah the fact that we gave up assets to acquire what everyone knew to be an anchor contract was literally one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. I remember when I was arguing with someone on HF saying that the Canucks would never pay top assets like a top 10 pick to acquire a contract that would likely be an anchor very soon. I was wrong... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, AnthonyG said: No assets eh?? You mean when JB took over the job there were no assets? cuz from where I’m standing, JT Miller, Boeser, Garland, Demko - all great assets. Far more assets than JB was ever gifted. Besides Hughes and Pettersson I think the list of assets stop there. Pretty sure other teams accumulated more assets than the Canucks since then. I mean LA went from Cup winner, to lottery team to playoff team again during more or less during Bennings tenure Also the three you mentioned Miller, Boeser, and Garland all are depreciating values. Boeser and Garland are basically a cap dump (or will be lucky if they fetch a 2nd round pick) if they get traded elsewhere Edited December 22, 2022 by iinatcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 4 hours ago, Diamonds said: Benning inherited a pretty bare prospect cupboard, but to say he didn't inherit assets is pretty disingenuous. Benning inherited still valuable and on good contracts players in 32 year olds Bieksa and Hamhuis, Jason Garrison, 29/30 year old Ryan Kesler, a still productive Alex Burrows, 28 year old Jannik Hansen, a 0.5ppg Chris Higgins, and of course a young Chris Tanev, still fairly young Edler, and the Sedins among others. All of those players had value to contenders. The only ones that Benning got good value out of were Kesler and a 2nd for Garrison (which he then stupidly flipped for Linden Vey). Really the biggest problem was that rather than actually collecting assets Benning decided that he would be better off trying to get other teams struggling/not quite good enough for their team's prospects instead to "expedite the rebuild". Thank god people here have a brain - it's so refreshing to see that some people on here are still sensible with their takes. Kudos to you. People always act like JB was left with NOTHING and that he had to build from the ground up. Yeah no, MG totally didn't leave this team with Horvat (future #1A/B C), Tanev (future #2/3), Markstrom (future 1G) and a plethora of assets to trade from including: Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, Edler, Hamhuis, Hansen, Higgins, Garrison, Kassian, Lack and even the Sedins. The overall value JB got out of the existing assets on the team was so freakin' bad. Kesler - 1st, Sbisa, Bonino -> 1st became McCann, would have been a good trade if we just kept him. Bonino for Sutter and then signing Sutter to an extension was just pure buffonery. Sbisa will be forever in Canucks history as folklore for being so freakin' bad. Burrows -> Dahlen (lol) Bieksa -> 2nd round pick Edler -> nothing - rode out his prime and never sold at max value Hamhuis - > botched trade deadline...Hamhuis played another 4 years after this Hansen - > Goldobin (lol) Higgins -> nothing Lack -> 3rd round pick Garrison -> 2nd round pick Kassian -> Prust (lol) Sedins -> nothing So out of all the assets on this team, we managed to get a couple mid picks, and some nobody prospects/young players. Truly dreadful asset management. Imagine selling Edler at his prime? We would have gotten multiple firsts/prospects. Imagine trading the Sedins in the last couple years of their deal? We would have gotten multiple firsts/prospects? Imagine selling Higgins and Hamhuis when they should have been sold? We would have gotten multiple picks/prospects. I suspect most EA NHL GMs would have handled this better than Jim Benning. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 32 minutes ago, JohnTavares said: Do you watch the games? OEL is a major roadblock to this team's success. Being paid like a top pairing defenseman but performing like a #4 does that to teams. It's not really rocket science bud. A lot of denial/copium throughout this forum I see. Yep I watch, I just don’t play “spot the mistake” with OEL and feed into the confirmation bias that he’s what’s dragging the team down. He was good last year and his struggling this season coincides with the entire team struggling. It stands to reason he’ll look better if the team improves it’s two way play. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 I think the best way to know the actual value of OEL is to ask yourself. If let's say OEL was part of the Oilers how would you be seeing him a player and the value of his contract. Pretty sure everyone's initial reaction will be being laughing at the Oilers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, iinatcc said: Besides Hughes and Pettersson I think the list of assets stop there. Also the three you mentioned Miller, Boeser, and Garland all are depreciating values. Boeser and Garland are basically a cap dump (or will be lucky if they fetch a 2nd round pick) if they get traded elsewhere Boeser and Garland both have age on their side in a trade. Its not like we are trading guys over the hump in terms of their peak. Boeser is 25, Garland is 26, both still have years of peak athletic performance ahead of them. There is a much better chance they bounce back than skydive off a cliff. Neither are locked in long term and with some retention, can be easily moved to gain picks or a prospect. Demko is a very valuable asset and if we are rebuilding, Silovs is the future. I know there is a ton of hype around him and Clarke really likes him a lot. As for JT Miller, they missed the boat last year, same for Boeser really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Just now, iinatcc said: I think the best way to know the actual value of OEL is to ask yourself. If let's say OEL was part of the Oilers how would you be seeing him a player and the value of his contract. Pretty sure everyone's initial reaction will be being laughing at the Oilers He'd be best defenceman signed at a bargain considering how much of a hellhole Edmonton is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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