Conor Garland | #8 | RW/LW

[86Viking]

31 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

I think he will be here on opening night lineup.

 

The lack of trade movement and willingness to pay to get off of his contract makes me feel they will be patient and let things playout.

 

IMO, Garland has so much more to give, last year was disappointing from him, but I think a more defined role under Tocchet will let us see Garland at his best again.

Does it really make sense to give up assets or dump your SECOND best 5 on 5 ppg player...Personally, I give Garland more ice time and try him on the PK. Also, Canucks need to resolve their glut of wingers issue yet this regime has done nothing about it...just adding more wingers to the problem and now being stuck with all these wingers who hold little to no value so utilize them better on the team to get the most out of them...this means NOT playing Di Gusieppe in the top 6 next year! good 4th line option but Garland should get that spot over him every game of the season

[kloubek]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I like Garland as well.  He plays bigger than his size (vs creampuffs that play smaller than they actually are).

I view his abilities similar to how Hughes plays. Hughes' biggest negative is his size as well, but he has managed to usually find ways to use his mobility to keep from getting crushed. If you can avoid a check, that's just as good as (if not better) than absorbing it. No, neither will help much in regards to wearing down an opponent over a playoff series, but hopefully this team gets one or two bigger guys who can carry that role. 

It should also be understood that if these guys were to be 6'2, 220 lbs, Hughes would be a Norris winner, and Garland would be an elite player. We'd also be on the hook for double digit salaries. With Petey already headed there, we do NOT want to turn into another top-heavy Toronto or Edmonton team.

 

 

48 minutes ago, Neutral said:

Does it really make sense to give up assets or dump your SECOND best 5 on 5 ppg player...Personally, I give Garland more ice time and try him on the PK. Also, Canucks need to resolve their glut of wingers issue yet this regime has done nothing about it...just adding more wingers to the problem and now being stuck with all these wingers who hold little to no value so utilize them better on the team to get the most out of them...this means NOT playing Di Gusieppe in the top 6 next year! good 4th line option but Garland should get that spot over him every game of the season

No, it doesn't. That's just poor asset management. (Yes, I know Garland being on this team was Benning's doing, but that's the hand Allvin was dealt.) I realize he didn't have his best year ever, but I do think he's shown enough to indicate he can be (and is) a solid, regular player who brings value. I also agree that we should lose 1 winger, or our depth will end up pushing a top 6 winger to the 3rd line. And while that in itself is actually a good thing, that just doesn't work in a cap world to pay a guy like Garland to play down there and when we still need to bolster our D.

To me, you add sweeteners if it means you end up moving on from a guy who is worth nowhere near his contract. Some may state that Garland is overpaid, but if he is, it isn't by much. Certainly not enough for another team to acquire our 2nd liner for free PLUS sweeteners. Getting the player for free IS the sweetener. If the Canucks do require more cap space, I'd rather move on from Beauvillier, who I believe may have had an outlier year with his new team. I'd rather eliminate the risk of that, and move him for whatever minor return we'd likely get.

Edited June 29, 2023 by kloubek

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

8 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

A direct comparison between our two struggling right wingers yields some serious concerns about Boeser's game.  It has truly dropped off since the bubble season in Canada.

 

There are some who believe Boeser is about to hit his prime years simply because he's 26.  That's old-school thinking that ignores progression and health.  At even strength, players begin to trail off around this age while finish drops off much faster.  Despite Brock's struggles,  he quietly put up points, bolstered by his continued effectiveness on the power play.  This is in direct contrast to criminally underrated Conor Garland, who is far superior 5v5in every way but is ineffective on special teams.  I don't think anybody wants to see Boeser play the same way he did this past year, himself included.  I think the changes this summer are promising, but we really need to temper our expectations for a potential bounce-back year.  I believe he will improve - just not in the dramatic way CDC is hoping.

 

 

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

Why do you think Garland struggles so much on the powerplay? I think he's been this way for a while. Is it worth taking him off the powerplay? A lot of people talk about how great he is in 5v5 situations but never address the issue of his terrible PP play.

 

53 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Iirc he doesn't get much power play time as he is on the second unit, and thus ends up with about 30 seconds of ice time per try?

How does his production fair, as compared to the other folk on unit 2?

 

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

Last time I looked at the data, he's the worst performing regular 2PP forward. It's bizarre, but it seems to consistently be the case.

Part of the reason is that he indeed plays on the second unit alongside lesser quality players like Beauvillier and... Sheldon Dries?  Good god.  It's also probably skewed by them trying to bring the puck up after the first unit gets off.

 

 

 

And yet, he always struggled on the PP, even in Arizona.  It's his playmaking skills that are brutally underrated (especially with his high-danger passes), but I guess they want more of a shooter on the first PP, and Boeser fills that role better.  Garland is a volume shooter, but he does take a lot of them from poor angles.  He just needs to focus on taking quality shots and he can definitely contend for getting a spot back on the 1PP.

[Citizen Erased]

On 7/21/2023 at 9:54 AM, Bob.Loblaw said:

 

 

 

Part of the reason is that he indeed plays on the second unit alongside lesser quality players like Beauvillier and... Sheldon Dries?  Good god.  It's also probably skewed by them trying to bring the puck up after the first unit gets off.

 

 

 

And yet, he always struggled on the PP, even in Arizona.  It's his playmaking skills that are brutally underrated (especially with his high-danger passes), but I guess they want more of a shooter on the first PP, and Boeser fills that role better.  Garland is a volume shooter, but he does take a lot of them from poor angles.  He just needs to focus on taking quality shots and he can definitely contend for getting a spot back on the 1PP.

Do the Canucks even have any decent shooters on the second power play unit? Maybe that’s why Garland takes so many when he is clearly better at play making.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

1 hour ago, Citizen Erased said:

Do the Canucks even have any decent shooters on the second power play unit? Maybe that’s why Garland takes so many when he is clearly better at play making.

What second PP unit?  

[Citizen Erased]

6 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

What second PP unit?  

Exactly. I don’t recall who he’s been out there with on the PP. has Hoglander or Podkolzin been given opportunities?

[Diamonds]

13 minutes ago, Citizen Erased said:

Exactly. I don’t recall who he’s been out there with on the PP. has Hoglander or Podkolzin been given opportunities?

Nope, Podkolzin and Hoglander have barely been given the opportunity. The 2nd unit has mostly been Pearson (2 seasons ago and last season pre injury), Mikheyev (pre injury), Dries, and Beauvillier. Plus of course OEL as the defenseman and Chaisson last year.

[-AJ-]

2 hours ago, Citizen Erased said:

Do the Canucks even have any decent shooters on the second power play unit? Maybe that’s why Garland takes so many when he is clearly better at play making.

Here are the stats of PP time for Vancouver this year. Based on the TOI % numbers, you can estimate that Garland's main linemates were probably guys like Pederson, Pearson, and Kravtsov (for the short time they were here) and Dries and Mikheyev for more of the season. I think Beauvillier might've taken some time on that 2nd PP unit once he arrived.

 

 

Notice the stat PP GF/60, which tells how many PP goals your line scored while you were on the PP. I focused on only Beauvillier through Kravtsov and calculated the weighted average PP GF/60 of all seven of those players was about 7.20 PP GF/60. Garland does rise above the average (on our 2nd PP anyway) at 7.65, but he's not far and away better than all those players, even though I'd contend he might be the most talented. Beauvillier significantly drags the numbers down, as does Mikheyev. On the other had, Dries actually has better results than Garland, though if I recall, he may have had some spot duty on the PP1 as well. Small samples from Kravtsov and Pearson are intriguing, but the size of the sample leads me not to put too much stock into them, even though they have strong results.

 

It's worthy of note that last year (2021-22), Garland was at a shockingly low 2.93 PP GF/60, so this year, although still not great for him, was a huge improvement as far as his PP play.

[Citizen Erased]

1 hour ago, Diamonds said:

Nope, Podkolzin and Hoglander have barely been given the opportunity. The 2nd unit has mostly been Pearson (2 seasons ago and last season pre injury), Mikheyev (pre injury), Dries, and Beauvillier. Plus of course OEL as the defenseman and Chaisson last year.

I don’t understand. They need more offence from them, but they aren’t being given any PP time, especially how the second unit in place already struggled? Where is the logic in that?

[Citizen Erased]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

Here are the stats of PP time for Vancouver this year. Based on the TOI % numbers, you can estimate that Garland's main linemates were probably guys like Pederson, Pearson, and Kravtsov (for the short time they were here) and Dries and Mikheyev for more of the season. I think Beauvillier might've taken some time on that 2nd PP unit once he arrived.

 

 

Notice the stat PP GF/60, which tells how many PP goals your line scored while you were on the PP. I focused on only Beauvillier through Kravtsov and calculated the weighted average PP GF/60 of all seven of those players was about 7.20 PP GF/60. Garland does rise above the average (on our 2nd PP anyway) at 7.65, but he's not far and away better than all those players, even though I'd contend he might be the most talented. Beauvillier significantly drags the numbers down, as does Mikheyev. On the other had, Dries actually has better results than Garland, though if I recall, he may have had some spot duty on the PP1 as well. Small samples from Kravtsov and Pearson are intriguing, but the size of the sample leads me not to put too much stock into them, even though they have strong results.

 

It's worthy of note that last year (2021-22), Garland was at a shockingly low 2.93 PP GF/60, so this year, although still not great for him, was a huge improvement as far as his PP play.

Interesting stats. Still, I’d like to see what Garland can do on the PP with more skilled players.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

Here are the stats of PP time for Vancouver this year. Based on the TOI % numbers, you can estimate that Garland's main linemates were probably guys like Pederson, Pearson, and Kravtsov (for the short time they were here) and Dries and Mikheyev for more of the season. I think Beauvillier might've taken some time on that 2nd PP unit once he arrived.

 

 

Notice the stat PP GF/60, which tells how many PP goals your line scored while you were on the PP. I focused on only Beauvillier through Kravtsov and calculated the weighted average PP GF/60 of all seven of those players was about 7.20 PP GF/60. Garland does rise above the average (on our 2nd PP anyway) at 7.65, but he's not far and away better than all those players, even though I'd contend he might be the most talented. Beauvillier significantly drags the numbers down, as does Mikheyev. On the other had, Dries actually has better results than Garland, though if I recall, he may have had some spot duty on the PP1 as well. Small samples from Kravtsov and Pearson are intriguing, but the size of the sample leads me not to put too much stock into them, even though they have strong results.

 

It's worthy of note that last year (2021-22), Garland was at a shockingly low 2.93 PP GF/60, so this year, although still not great for him, was a huge improvement as far as his PP play.

Here are some specific linemate stats from natural stat trick.  That site is wonders.

 

 

[-AJ-]

11 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Here are some specific linemate stats from natural stat trick.  That site is wonders.

 

 

I use it from time to time as well, though I find NHL.com is a lot more easy to organize and filter the information. Still, Natural Stat Trick has info that NHL.com doesn't so they complement each other nicely.

[hammertime]

On 7/22/2023 at 5:16 PM, -AJ- said:

I use it from time to time as well, though I find NHL.com is a lot more easy to organize and filter the information. Still, Natural Stat Trick has info that NHL.com doesn't so they complement each other nicely.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/garlaco01.html

https://moneypuck.com/player.htm?p=8478856

 

Like you said Garland played with a sack of hammers on the PP2 when he did get the opportunity. It's not like he was out there with Miller Pete Kuzz Huggy. I don't understand why you're negatively profiling this player based on 1.5 min per game at all? 

[hammertime]

On 7/22/2023 at 5:16 PM, -AJ- said:

I use it from time to time as well, though I find NHL.com is a lot more easy to organize and filter the information. Still, Natural Stat Trick has info that NHL.com doesn't so they complement each other nicely.

https://moneypuck.com/lines.htm

 

Heres a fun one. Look at every combination of lines where Garland replaces Brock the statistics clearly show an overall improvement in the line as a whole. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by hammertime

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Infomercial2000]

Honeymoon takes place where Garland gets traded too. 

[Citizen Erased]

On 8/11/2023 at 6:55 PM, Infomercial2000 said:

Honeymoon takes place where Garland gets traded too. 

It’s highly unlikely he will be traded. 

[higgyfan]

An interesting article on Conor that speaks of his outstanding determination and character.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/longform/inside-conor-garlands-fearless-and-endearing-approach-to-the-game/

 

Here are some relevant excerpts from the link...

 

“He’s by far the most competitive player that I’ve ever coached. He just had ‘compete’ ingrained in his DNA.”

-Darren Rumble (coach Moncton Wildcats).

 

“You just saw guys gravitate to him, you know?” says Rick Tocchet, the Coyotes’ head coach at the time. “[Clayton] Keller, [Jakob] Chychrun, Phil Kessel, they were together constantly. And he was kind of the ringleader there.”

Rick Tocchet

 

“I mean, he scored a goal in Edmonton where there was a slapshot that went off his face into the net — and he scored another goal that game,” says Tocchet. “You know, he had cuts all over his face, and he’s interviewing with Hockey Night in Canada. I think that kind of took off, like, ‘Hey man, this guy’s not afraid.’”

Rick Tocchet

 

Tocchet remembers one particular conversation with the winger when he saw those gears turning. “We were at centre ice at the start of the year, and I said to him, ‘You’re not an 18-minute player in my eyes,’” the coach recalls of the moment, back when Garland was averaging around 14 minutes a night. “He looked me in the eyes, and he challenged me — he goes, ‘Well, make me an 18-minute player. Coach me into an 18-minute player.’” So Tocchet hit him with some hard truths. “I said, ‘You’re going to hear some stuff that you might not like. You’ve got to be more structured, you’ve got to play better defensive hockey. I love the fact that you’re an instinctual player, but you’ve also got to be a system guy, too, when you need to be.’ That was one thing that he took to heart. He worked on his game, watched video, worked on that hard in practice.

“The one thing he does is the next day, he shows up and he’s raring to go again. Even if he had a bad night or he didn’t agree with a coach or he didn’t like his game, the next day, he punches the clock again.”

By the end of his final year in Arizona, Garland’s average ice time sat at 17:55.

 

“[It’s] obviously a pressure cooker there[Van], but I think he embraces that. He wants that,” says Tocchet. “He wants to be on the ice, 2–2 game with six minutes left and the pressure on him to make something happen. … I think he wants to meet it head on. ‘Get me out there. Let me have the puck in these situations — if I don’t produce, it’s on me.’ I think that’s his attitude, and I think that’s the attitude that you have to have when you go into those markets.”

Tocchet

 

“Conor’s earned everything he’s got,” Donato says. “At every level, he produced. And even though he was producing, he would never get the respect. … Now in pro, he’s still producing and doing those things, and there’s still people that doubt him. But I think that’s what drives Conor.”

Ryan Donato

 

Whether you doubt him or believe, know that Conor Garland will come back, time and time again. He’ll keep pushing and clawing and battling, as he always has — it’s just the way he’s wired, says Tocchet. It’s that, above all else, that stands out to the coach when he thinks back on their time together in Arizona. That fire. “A lot of times I remember, the last couple years, he was in the middle of things, in a scrum. They’re punching him in the head, he’s sticking in there, he’s yelling at them — and then he’s right back the next shift, right in that same area again,” Tocchet says. “It’s tough to go back in that area again, with those big defencemen — who wants to get hit in the face again, right? But I think it shows the other team, man, this guy’s not going away, you know?

“He’s not going to go away.”

Tocchet

*****************************************************************************************************************************

Grit, determination, driven, high energy, pest, leadership, fearless= CHARACTER

We haven't seen his best yet.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Garland showing off his "muffin" shot.