aGENT Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, bishopshodan said: So Miller will ? In all likelihood? Yes. It's what one should bet/plan on as GM. It is the normal, most likely scenario. You don't plan based on outliers. Just now, bishopshodan said: Your team would never have 30= yr olds then, despite them showing no signs of slowing down. I'm fine with 30 year olds. Particularly on short term deals to minimize risk of guys 34+. If Rutherford could convince Pavelski to sign here next year on a $4x1 deal, I'd applaud it. Or say a longer term, 6 year deal signed for a player that's 27 and expiring at 33 +/- (for the right player). Especially if it works with our contention window. I'm not fine committing $8m+ for 6-8 years of guys who will already be in their 30's and will be declining smack dab in the middle of our window, saddling what should be a cup competing team, with an anchor contract. Just now, bishopshodan said: When did I say it was argued otherwise? I was adding fodder to my reasoning for retaining a top 6 centre, were going to have to pay market value for a couple of them at some point. Very important positions. You said 'most' when referring to 4 in the top ten..... so thet would mean you though 3 of them were 'generational' I said most were elite/generational. Either/or. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Trading Boeser fits your criteria perfectly . You’d rather keep Boeser over Miller for 1or 2m extra? Moving one does not preclude moving the other. This isn't Boeser vs Miller. This isn't (solely, or even primarily) about cap. EVERYTHING this management does, should be about maximizing our depth and competitiveness 2-7 years from now, for this core's window. IMO, cashing in on Miller is a no-brainer in that regard. If management also feels we're better off with different pieces than Boeser (whether due to his skating, upcoming contract demands, or otherwise), than they should move him for pieces they think will help us win, in that window. If they think we can win with Boeser, can extend him for terms that make sense etc, they should do that. He's the right age to contribute during that window. The other issues are a separate discussion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 20 minutes ago, aGENT said: That's when the vast majority of NHL'er decline. The opposite are outliers. Who's argued otherwise? I said elite as well. We shouldn't be rebuilding anything with them right in their peak/prime. THAT is what we should be putting all of our focus in to building around. Not starting to tear it down. If I have to explain the purpose of emojis... There are no guarantees in sports. We could trade Miller for pieces that all bomb. Conversely, we could move off Boeser (who becomes a HOF'er in his prime, on another team) to afford MIller's $9m deal, only to watch him degrade to Player Name 2.0 in to his 30's (at 150% the cap hit, yay!). So. Miller IS an outlier, walks like a duck , talks like a duck, must be . This is about acquiring 2 key pieces to this team,. To pursue Stanley cup in the next 3 seasons. Why are we so in love with draft picks? thought we just did a rebuild? Boeser could be a bomb next year, lucky to get it close to back on track this year. are we expecting someone else to just show up with the same tenacity JT has? .. and the argument about wanting or not wanting to be here,. That applies for any one we try to obtain . a bird in the hand, Miller.. is 3 in the bush,. and those are all fictional tweety birds. Miller is not LE , Sutter, or anyone else like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, aGENT said: I said most were elite/generational. Either/or. My bad. You did. I was moving too fast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, aGENT said: Moving one does not preclude moving the other. This isn't Boeser vs Miller. This isn't (solely, or even primarily) about cap. EVERYTHING this management does, should be about maximizing our depth and competitiveness 2-7 years from now, for this core's window. IMO, cashing in on Miller is a no-brainer in that regard. If management also feels we're better off with different pieces than Boeser (whether due to his skating, upcoming contract demands, or otherwise), than they should move him for pieces they think will help us win, in that window. If they think we can win with Boeser, can extend him for terms that make sense etc, they should do that. He's the right age to contribute during that window. The other issues are a separate discussion. this you move Miller and you can bring in a future top pairing d, a good young cman and a high pick you move Boeser you bring in a solid 4-5 dman in the 24-26 range for right now and the future. All of a sudden the holes in the lineup don't look so daunting, and youve given yourself cap flexibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, stawns said: I would move them both at tbis deadline. Rebuild . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, stawns said: this you move Miller and you can bring in a future top pairing d, a good young cman and a high pick you move Boeser you bring in a solid 4-5 dman in the 24-26 range for right now and the future. All of a sudden the holes in the lineup don't look so daunting, and youve given yourself cap flexibility On paper. You've wanted Miller gone from square one so I'm not surprised you're trying to sell it. But this idea we'll hit a pot of gold is a dream. And he's the kind of player that puts a team on his back and can get you there. He's grit and grumble. Sure, a little moody, but that gives him an edge at times too. This team needs that kind of player....he isn't easy to play against. So he cares so much that he slams doors and drops f bombs at times, he'll also drive the net and put the puck in when we need it most. Because he wants to win. Exactly what kind of player you want in the playoffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Rebuild . how is it a rebuild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, -DLC- said: On paper. You've wanted Miller gone from square one so I'm not surprised you're trying to sell it. But this idea we'll hit a pot of gold is a dream. why is it a dream? If JT is as valuable as you think he is, then why wouldn't he? A team like the Rangers would pay a lot to bring in an American, who can put up a ppg, play pp, play pk and get two shots at a Cup while he's on a sweetheart deal and they have the cap space and assets to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, aGENT said: Moving one does not preclude moving the other. This isn't Boeser vs Miller. This isn't (solely, or even primarily) about cap. EVERYTHING this management does, should be about maximizing our depth and competitiveness 2-7 years from now, for this core's window. IMO, cashing in on Miller is a no-brainer in that regard. If management also feels we're better off with different pieces than Boeser (whether due to his skating, upcoming contract demands, or otherwise), than they should move him for pieces they think will help us win, in that window. If they think we can win with Boeser, can extend him for terms that make sense etc, they should do that. He's the right age to contribute during that window. The other issues are a separate discussion. Cash in Miller for what though.. ? Thats where this turns to fantasy,. Keeping Miller is not Fantasy. Talk of getting picks and prospects or unknown stereotypes without names ,. That’s thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, SilentSam said: So. Miller IS an outlier, There is literally no way to know that he will be an outlier in the sense we're taking about here (age/decline). Planning for him to be one, an abnormal outlier, is bad planning. 2 minutes ago, SilentSam said: This is about acquiring 2 key pieces to this team,. To pursue Stanley cup in the next 3 seasons. Why are we so in love with draft picks? thought we just did a rebuild? Who's talking about draft picks? We're looking at young player, top end and near ready prospect, and either another prospect or maybe a pick as a peripheral piece as any starting point of a deal. Pieces that will help us in that 2-7 year window. Nobody is suggesting moving anybody for just picks or picks being the primary return. 2 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Boeser could be a bomb next year, lucky to get it close to back on track this year. So could Miller. Sports are fun. 2 minutes ago, SilentSam said: are we expecting someone else to just show up with the same tenacity JT has? Be nice. But nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 minute ago, stawns said: why is it a dream? If JT is as valuable as you think he is, then why wouldn't he? A team like the Rangers would pay a lot to bring in an American, who can put up a ppg, play pp, play pk and get two shots at a Cup while he's on a sweetheart deal and they have the cap space and assets to do it "Assets" aren't proven. Name names. JT is. I think the name of the game is to KEEP players who are that valuable. I don't know, seems that's the goal? Rather than feeling we have to continue chasing the "perfect" team...we have one that, if Petey and Brock get rolling, can look pretty damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, SilentSam said: Cash in Miller for what though.. ? Thats where this turns to fantasy,. Keeping Miller is not Fantasy. Talk of getting picks and prospects or unknown stereotypes without names ,. That’s thin air. think about what the duschesne deal did for the Avs.........it got them past the road block and set them up for a decade........that's what we're talking about here 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 30 minutes ago, aGENT said: What if we're not trading him (at least solely) because he has trade value (he does)? What if we're moving him because Rutherford knows he wants to go to a contender/doesn't want to stay here/won't stay here for $ or tem that works for the Canucks/doesn't fit the core's contention window of 2-7 +/- years from now? The what if-ing is getting woozy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, -DLC- said: "Assets" aren't proven. Name names. JT is. Schneider Chytll 1st round pick done and done, both teams get what they want and need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, -DLC- said: On paper. You've wanted Miller gone from square one so I'm not surprised you're trying to sell it. But this idea we'll hit a pot of gold is a dream. And he's the kind of player that puts a team on his back and can get you there. He's grit and grumble. Sure, a little moody, but that gives him an edge at times too. This team needs that kind of player....he isn't easy to play against. So he cares so much that he slams doors and drops f bombs at times, he'll also drive the net and put the puck in when we need it most. Because he wants to win. Exactly what kind of player you want in the playoffs. Moody = Tenacious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 minute ago, SilentSam said: The what if-ing is getting woozy. but Miller wanting to stay in Van on a reduced deal isn't? C'mon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 minute ago, stawns said: think about what the duschesne deal did for the Avs.........it got them past the road block and set them up for a decade........that's what we're talking about here That was our Dump into Arizona , we got Garland and OEL. Trading Miller is like giving away Shane Doan.. there aren’t many like him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, stawns said: but Miller wanting to stay in Van on a reduced deal isn't? C'mon. Fine , illl change my stance on the reduced deal.. he is worth more than What Boeser is paid right now, and easily as much as the 8-9 that some will say EP40 should get. Trading Miller is going from reality into Fantasy.. you and others and me, have no idea what we would get back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, -DLC- said: "Assets" aren't proven. Name names. JT is. I think the name of the game is to KEEP players who are that valuable. I don't know, seems that's the goal? Rather than feeling we have to continue chasing the "perfect" team...we have one that, if Petey and Brock get rolling, can look pretty damn good. Fla Lundell Kierstad 1st round pick Nash tomasino Afanasyev 1st round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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