Direction of the team

[Canuckfanforlife82]

I really hope that the organization isn’t trying to have a quick turnaround and are hoping these moves help them make the playoffs. I have heard a lot the ownership is still wanting a quick fix. Have they learned nothing previously? It doesn’t work. Time and time again. Aquilini said the standard is Stanley cup. The big problem that I see with this organization is the money that is tied up in players that don’t hold a ton of value and the fact we don’t have enough prospects to bring up or trade. We are sort of stuck in that middle ground you want to try to avoid. It’s tough to say which way they need to go but the depth in the organization is pretty bare in terms of prospects and picks. They need to fix this. Anyways we will see what moves they make or don’t to see what they are thinking. I just don’t like that a lot of people are saying they still want a quick turnaround. It will be interesting to see what happens next. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Canuckfanforlife82

[Ghostsof1915]

Thank you. 

- A lot of players are underachieving, so there's probably not much interest from other teams.

- Half the league is over/at/ or have little cap space. So even if they wanted one of our players they don't have room (at least right now).

- Our prospect pool has been depleted, due to mismanagement, scandals, or other. So the calvary isn't waiting to ride in and help us out.

- We are lacking in draft picks. And don't have the cap space to take on bad contracts to get high end draft picks. 

 

The wild card is the players we have in Europe or in College are able to make the jump to the NHL/AHL next season. And that Benning's drafting 

produces late round gems, as a final unexpected present for our club. 

[Patel Bure]

25 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I really hope that the organization isn’t trying to have a quick turnaround and are hoping these moves help them make the playoffs. I have heard a lot the ownership is still wanting a quick fix. Have they learned nothing previously? It doesn’t work. Time and time again. Aquilini said the standard is Stanley cup. The big problem that I see with this organization is the money that is tied up in players that don’t hold a ton of value and the fact we don’t have enough prospects to bring up or trade. We are sort of stuck in that middle ground you want to try to avoid. It’s tough to say which way they need to go but the depth in the organization is pretty bare in terms of prospects and picks. They need to fix this. Anyways we will see what moves they make or don’t to see what they are thinking. I just don’t like that a lot of people are saying they still want a quick turnaround. It will be interesting to see what happens next. 

I suspect that the Canucks will make a decision with regards to direction at the trade deadline.    

 

The Canucks' performance between now and the trade deadline will influence our decision making going forward imo.

[Canuckfanforlife82]

3 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

I suspect that the Canucks will make a decision with regards to direction at the trade deadline.    

 

The Canucks' performance between now and the trade deadline will influence our decision making going forward imo.

But it doesn’t change the fact that the depth is pretty bare and there are too many holes to fill at one deadline.

[NHL97OneTimer]

They may not make the playoffs, but this team is playoff contender.......at least if not for the terrible start with the coaching.  So tough to see at this point the team being a top draft contender.  It would be a weird twist of events for the new coach to bring in energy and get the boys excited and play better only to have a new GM come in and strip the core.  There's only one direction they can really go from here and that's try to push for a playoff spot with a decision closer to the deadline for players like Brock and Miller.  I can't see FA, JR and BB getting behind another 5 year rebuild plan at this point.  The age of the core is such that they have no choice but to dismantle everything vs make a few changes with hopes they find the right mix.  My guess is they'll work with door #2.

[Canuckfanforlife82]

4 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

They may not make the playoffs, but this team is playoff contender.......at least if not for the terrible start with the coaching.  So tough to see at this point the team being a top draft contender.  It would be a weird twist of events for the new coach to bring in energy and get the boys excited and play better only to have a new GM come in and strip the core.  There's only one direction they can really go from here and that's try to push for a playoff spot with a decision closer to the deadline for players like Brock and Miller.  I can't see FA, JR and BB getting behind another 5 year rebuild plan at this point.  The age of the core is such that they have no choice but to dismantle everything vs make a few changes with hopes they find the right mix.  My guess is they'll work with door #2.

How has making a few changes with hopes they find the right mix ever worked for this organization? I am basing it on the past. It never has. You have to go with what’s been tried and how it has been tried time and time again.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Canuckfanforlife82

[NHL97OneTimer]

4 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

How has making a few changes with hopes they find the right mix ever worked for this organization? I am basing it on the past. It never has. You have to go with what’s been tried and how it has been tried time and time again.

Can't disagree, but over the past 50 years, how successful has it been to strip everything down and draft your way up?  How long will that take?  Do we not have the potential with this core to at least contend?  The time to strip this team down is probably 5-7 years away at this point.  

[Canuckfanforlife82]

2 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Can't disagree, but over the past 50 years, how successful has it been to strip everything down and draft your way up?  How long will that take?  Do we not have the potential with this core to at least contend?  The time to strip this team down is probably 5-7 years away at this point.  

That’s what I am saying we are sort of stuck in that gross middle ground that is hard to get out of.

[DefCon1]

11 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

They may not make the playoffs, but this team is playoff contender.......at least if not for the terrible start with the coaching.  So tough to see at this point the team being a top draft contender.  It would be a weird twist of events for the new coach to bring in energy and get the boys excited and play better only to have a new GM come in and strip the core.  There's only one direction they can really go from here and that's try to push for a playoff spot with a decision closer to the deadline for players like Brock and Miller.  I can't see FA, JR and BB getting behind another 5 year rebuild plan at this point.  The age of the core is such that they have no choice but to dismantle everything vs make a few changes with hopes they find the right mix.  My guess is they'll work with door #2.

Yeah I dont get people here screaming for a rebuild. If we want a rebuild and want to do it the "right way" then they should trade Horvat, Miller, Petersson, Boeser, Hughes and Demko and get all the picks and blue chip prospect they can. But people need to remember that Benning will not be the one at the draft, and he was great in drafting. It will be a new GM and who knows what kind of drafting we will have. Last thing we need is to be another Buffalo Sabres team which keeps drafting high, developing and then trading those players again to draft more...rinse and repeat. While we have this group of young players, Hoglander and Podkolzin on ELC and Rathbone in the wing, we need to trade for better support players and make a run for it. Another rebuild would just lead to another rebuild unless you trade everyone and start from scratch with 10 1st round picks.

[DefCon1]

8 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Can't disagree, but over the past 50 years, how successful has it been to strip everything down and draft your way up?  How long will that take?  Do we not have the potential with this core to at least contend?  The time to strip this team down is probably 5-7 years away at this point.  

Rutherford can build around few core players just like what he did in Pittsburgh. He got them Kessel, Hagelin, Bonino etc. to make them a cup contender. We need to identify the core that can get us to the cup and build around them. Because no one will be waiting for another 7 years of rebuild. 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

2 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

Yeah I dont get people here screaming for a rebuild. If we want a rebuild and want to do it the "right way" then they should trade Horvat, Miller, Petersson, Boeser, Hughes and Demko and get all the picks and blue chip prospect they can. But people need to remember that Benning will not be the one at the draft, and he was great in drafting. It will be a new GM and who knows what kind of drafting we will have. Last thing we need is to be another Buffalo Sabres team which keeps drafting high, developing and then trading those players again to draft more...rinse and repeat. While we have this group of young players, Hoglander and Podkolzin on ELC and Rathbone in the wing, we need to trade for better support players and make a run for it. Another rebuild would just lead to another rebuild unless you trade everyone and start from scratch with 10 1st round picks.

I am not saying I want a rebuild but I am looking at things realistically and I am finding it hard to figure outs what they can use to improve their roster in terms of trades. Not many picks, not many prospects and our players have underperformed which always decreases their value. I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around how they can do it with what they have.

[Wilbur]

Direction of the team?  As mentioned, the Canucks have a solid start to a core but too many overvalued players are clogging up cap space to improve on the core.  This is from years of not selling high on any assets. 

 

This.  Has.  To.  Change.

 

There are looming decisions on Boeser, Miller, and Horvat.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not rushing to get rid of them.  However, if they can't be resigned at a reasonable price, we need to sell high.

[Canuckfanforlife82]

2 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Direction of the team?  As mentioned, the Canucks have a solid start to a core but too many overvalued players are clogging up cap space to improve on the core.  This is from years of not selling high on any assets. 

 

This.  Has.  To.  Change.

 

There are looming decisions on Boeser, Miller, and Horvat.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not rushing to get rid of them.  However, if they can't be resigned at a reasonable price, we need to sell high.

I agree. Sometimes I feel we hang onto players  too long because of their potential and waiting for it to all come together.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Canuckfanforlife82

[DefCon1]

Just now, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I am not saying I want a rebuild but I am looking at things realistically and I am finding it hard to figure outs what they can use to improve their roster in terms of trades. Not many picks, not many prospects and our players have underperformed which always decreases their value. I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around how they can do it with what they have.

First of all, let see what this team actually has under Bruce. The team was under Green and Baumgartner for 5 years, and those guys are not qualified to even coach a high school hockey team nevermind an NHL team. There are some players that are underperforming and some that are excelling. Under Green everyone was underperforming. I see great improvements in Myers and Poolman, even Dickenson after one week under Boudreau. If we go on a 15 game win streak, would you still say the same thing? The team might need just a couple of additions and subtractions instead of a complete overhaul. We need to evaluate players under Bruce not evaluate past performances under Green. Thats how we lost Nate Schmidt and now he is playing on a top pairing D in winnipeg and has 15 assists up to this point.

[Patel Bure]

32 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

But it doesn’t change the fact that the depth is pretty bare and there are too many holes to fill at one deadline.

Is depth really bare though?  I mean, we just took out a pretty decent Jets team without OEL and Hamonic.   

 

Agreed with our depth isn't equivalent to that of an elite team, but we seem to be holding our end as well.  

 

Petey and Brock have been better lately but we've also been playing without the *real* Petey and Brock throughout most of this year. 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

1 minute ago, DefCon1 said:

First of all, let see what this team actually has under Bruce. The team was under Green and Baumgartner for 5 years, and those guys are not qualified to even coach a high school hockey team nevermind an NHL team. There are some players that are underperforming and some that are excelling. Under Green everyone was underperforming. I see great improvements in Myers and Poolman, even Dickenson after one week under Boudreau. If we go on a 15 game win streak, would you still say the same thing? The team might need just a couple of additions and subtractions instead of a complete overhaul. We need to evaluate players under Bruce not evaluate past performances under Green. Thats how we lost Nate Schmidt and now he is playing on a top pairing D in winnipeg and has 15 assists up to this point.

Yes but what I am asking is what do we have to give to improve our roster?

Edited December 11, 2021 by Canuckfanforlife82

[DefCon1]

6 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Direction of the team?  As mentioned, the Canucks have a solid start to a core but too many overvalued players are clogging up cap space to improve on the core.  This is from years of not selling high on any assets. 

 

This.  Has.  To.  Change.

 

There are looming decisions on Boeser, Miller, and Horvat.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not rushing to get rid of them.  However, if they can't be resigned at a reasonable price, we need to sell high.

I agree that if JR cant retain miller or horvat or boeser, he should definitely trade them for the best he can get. I think he is not afraid to make those type of moves and he has done it before.

[Ballisticsports.]

15 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

Yeah I dont get people here screaming for a rebuild. If we want a rebuild and want to do it the "right way" then they should trade Horvat, Miller, Petersson, Boeser, Hughes and Demko and get all the picks and blue chip prospect they can. But people need to remember that Benning will not be the one at the draft, and he was great in drafting. It will be a new GM and who knows what kind of drafting we will have. Last thing we need is to be another Buffalo Sabres team which keeps drafting high, developing and then trading those players again to draft more...rinse and repeat. While we have this group of young players, Hoglander and Podkolzin on ELC and Rathbone in the wing, we need to trade for better support players and make a run for it. Another rebuild would just lead to another rebuild unless you trade everyone and start from scratch with 10 1st round picks.

This speculative argument seems to be made that he was OUR scout

He was our GM

All the top GM's state the draft is the scouts show, that is theirs to showcase their work they put in and done by them by committee 

 

 

He had a scout team

Even WITHOUT a CDC member using hindsight or the scouting staff in place, With the high picks we had, most could have drafted a good core

We had real high picks in strong drafts

After those high picks, scouts were released by JB (why, makes no sense)

Hopefully we never have to go through high picks again (unless we trade for the in the future)

[DefCon1]

2 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Yes but what I am asking is what do we have to give to improve our roster?

Let see what we need to improve on first and that will become obvious when trade deadline rolls around. I want to see how the team doea under Bruce til trade deadline and then make a decision. Right now its hard to evaluate the needs of this team after being coached by an incompetent coach for many years.

[DefCon1]

2 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

This speculative argument seems to be made that he was OUR scout

He was our GM

All the top GM's state the draft is the scouts show, that is theirs to showcase their work they put in and done by them by committee 

 

 

He had a scout team

Even WITHOUT a CDC member using hindsight or the scouting staff in place, With the high picks we had, most could have drafted a good core

We had real high picks in strong drafts

After those high picks, scouts were released by JB (why, makes no sense)

Hopefully we never have to go through high picks again (unless we trade for the in the future)

Yeah but wouldnt the GM have the final say in this? Or the scouts give a list of what they think is the best players and the GM choosing from that list unless there is a consensus.