Why I think Miller will be traded and why Canuck fans will be somewhat disappointed with the return.

[N4ZZY]

2 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I wouldn't blame him either.  If you're a player now you're looking at all the games in US with full capacity, more reasonable Covid rules.  

 

Meanwhile in Canada you're playing to empty buildings and getting randomly given an extra 10 days to quarantine at the border even when you have no symptoms (Boeser, Dickinson, DiGiuseppe). 

There are reports that there could be an end to the COVID restrictions here in BC. If that’s true, then I don’t think he has much to worry about that. 

 

I think for me, it’s more that I feel like he wants to go back to the US to play. If that’s the case, then there isn’t even a question of what to do with Miller. Trade him. End of story. Done. 

 

[Bure_Pavel]

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

Really? Do you think he’s worth 7.5M based on his performance this season? I mean, even the past few seasons. 

 

If he would take 7M over 5 years, I might be okay with that too. 

 

Would bring him to 29 years old. I can’t imagine if he’s slow now, how much slower he’d be at 29/30 years old. 

 

I think 7.5 is the minimum we have to give him, unless im mistaken and they adjusted the RFA rules recently. I think he would be worth 7.5 million for 5 years of his prime, definitely not a steal or anything though. 

[N4ZZY]

3 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I think 7.5 is the minimum we have to give him, unless im mistaken and they adjusted the RFA rules recently. I think he would be worth 7.5 million for 5 years of his prime, definitely not a steal or anything though. 

I think he could have had a few 30 goal seasons under his belt by now, I’d say he’s definitely worth 7.5M. But he hasn’t cracked 30 goals once in his career. Maybe that’ll happen next season. But we can only have so many 7M contracts. If Boeser who has averaged around 55 ish points per season is worth 7.5M, then what is Horvat worth, who has already put up one 61 point season. 

 

Ideally, I think both Boeser and Horvat are closer worth to 6-6.5M. Players producing at 60-70/75 points to me is worth 7M plus, which makes Petey’s contract this season, hard to swallow. 

 

[Bure_Pavel]

1 minute ago, N4ZZY said:

I think he could have had a few 30 goal seasons under his belt by now, I’d say he’s definitely worth 7.5M. But he hasn’t cracked 30 goals once in his career. Maybe that’ll happen next season. But we can only have so many 7M contracts. If Boeser who has averaged around 55 ish points per season is worth 7.5M, then what is Horvat worth, who has already put up one 61 point season. 

 

Ideally, I think both Boeser and Horvat are closer worth to 6-6.5M. Players producing at 60-70/75 points to me is worth 7M plus, which makes Petey’s contract this season, hard to swallow. 

 

I think It should be Boeser 6 X 6.75 mil and Horvat 8 X 7.25 Million, but dont really have that option with Boeser. If we are paying him 7.5 million, Canucks should have full control over the term of the next contract and limited no trade.   

[N4ZZY]

4 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I think It should be Boeser 6 X 6.75 mil and Horvat 8 X 7.25 Million, but dont really have that option with Boeser. If we are paying him 7.5 million, Canucks should have full control over the term of the next contract and limited no trade.   

I say, if Boeser is being paid 7.5M over longer ish term, then there cannot be a NMC or NTC in his contract. 

 

I think Brock should be given 5/6 years at 6.75M. But I also think Bo should be getting the same dollars, maybe a little more (6.95M x 8 years). 

 

[alt kilgore]

38 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I wouldn't blame him either.  If you're a player now you're looking at all the games in US with full capacity, more reasonable Covid rules.  

 

Meanwhile in Canada you're playing to empty buildings and getting randomly given an extra 10 days to quarantine at the border even when you have no symptoms (Boeser, Dickinson, DiGiuseppe). 

Some of those US States are stoopid with their lax standards at battling the virus.  Governors choosing to cater to their neanderthal Q-Anon base for political reasons over protecting their citizens health.  If it was a choice between a government being too cautious over acting reckless, I'd choose too cautious. Canada, has about half as many deaths per capita as the US from COVID.  Canadians, as a whole, will sacrifice some personal freedoms in order to keep more of us alive. The "Trump" States down there, with the most lax rules on attending events like NHL games, have the greatest death rates. I'm sure happy I live here. Emphasis on "live". 

 

https://local12.com/news/nation-world/study-risk-of-dying-from-covid-50-higher-in-red-states-coronavirus-pandemic-mask-social-distancing-vaccine-pfizer-moderna-johnson-and-johnson-delta-omicron-variant-democrat-republican-cincinnati-ohio

 

Study: Risk of dying from COVID 50% higher in red states

 

Its also the NHL who have their own draconian roadblocks about taking unreliable rapid tests and non symptomatic players sitting out. That's not on any government.

 

But do I think the federal gov rules can be confusing sometimes? Yes. But even though I'm beyond frustrated with the idiocy of things like Boeser having to isolate 10 days in the States, and then have to isolate again in Canada....I have to remind myself that its just hockey.  And I support the ideal of treating all residents here the same with no privileged treatment for celebrities.

 

That does not mean that Miller is as patient.  And I will agree on that point. He may have had enough. But I blame the pandemic more than anything. The source of the virus, if its because of poor standards in Asian meat markets or whatever it is. Once the pandemic is real.....its just stooopid to not listen to health experts.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Some of those US States are stoopid with their lax standards at battling the virus.  Governors choosing to cater to their neanderthal Q-Anon base for political reasons over protecting their citizens health.  If it was a choice between a government being too cautious over acting reckless, I'd choose too cautious. Canada, has about half as many deaths per capita as the US from COVID.  Canadians, as a whole, will sacrifice some personal freedoms in order to keep more of us alive. The "Trump" States down there, with the most lax rules on attending events like NHL games, have the greatest death rates. I'm sure happy I live here. Emphasis on "live". 

 

https://local12.com/news/nation-world/study-risk-of-dying-from-covid-50-higher-in-red-states-coronavirus-pandemic-mask-social-distancing-vaccine-pfizer-moderna-johnson-and-johnson-delta-omicron-variant-democrat-republican-cincinnati-ohio

 

Study: Risk of dying from COVID 50% higher in red states

 

Its also the NHL who have their own draconian roadblocks about taking unreliable rapid tests and non symptomatic players sitting out. That's not on any government.

 

But do I think the federal gov rules can be confusing sometimes? Yes. But even though I'm beyond frustrated with the idiocy of things like Boeser having to isolate 10 days in the States, and then have to isolate again in Canada....I have to remind myself that its just hockey.  And I support the ideal of treating all residents here the same with no privileged treatment for celebrities.

 

That does not mean that Miller is as patient.  And I will agree on that point. He may have had enough. But I blame the pandemic more than anything. The source of the virus, if its because of poor standards in Asian meat markets or whatever it is. Once the pandemic is real.....its just stooopid to not listen to health experts.

I'm staying away from the nitty gritty details on this subject as I don't want to derail this thread.  

 

I'm just saying that most of the hockey players aren't in the same boat as you with their views on this.  They're looking at people like me and you who work in offices or in the field and don't have to test for Covid every day, or really ever if you don't have any symptoms.  

All the players are biting their lips on this subject because of all the backlash that people who question the policies get online.  

 

I think that the last two years of Covid have made Canadian cities less desirable for free agents unfortunately. 

[Baggins]

On 2/1/2022 at 2:06 PM, Bure_Pavel said:

Then we lose Horvat and/or Boeser instead due to cap issues.

Trading a lesser player, and their cap hit, to retain a suprior player is a bad thing? 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I think 7.5 is the minimum we have to give him, unless im mistaken and they adjusted the RFA rules recently. I think he would be worth 7.5 million for 5 years of his prime, definitely not a steal or anything though. 

We don't have to pay Boeser $7.5m at all.

[Bure_Pavel]

1 minute ago, Baggins said:

Trading a lesser player, and their cap hit, to retain a suprior player is a bad thing? 

Depends on how much the greater player wants and if he fits in the teams timeline to compete. Can we afford to give miller 8 years if we arent competitive for another 2-3 years? What happens if he Loui's us, and his game drops off at 31 years old?

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

its just stooopid to not listen to health experts.

stupid and reckless. 

 

[N4ZZY]

38 minutes ago, aGENT said:

We don't have to pay Boeser $7.5m at all.

how's that? Isn't that his QO? 

 

[N4ZZY]

38 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Depends on how much the greater player wants and if he fits in the teams timeline to compete. Can we afford to give miller 8 years if we arent competitive for another 2-3 years? What happens if he Loui's us, and his game drops off at 31 years old?

It's just a never ending perpetual state of bad contracts. Hockey gods must hate us. First Loui, then Myers, and then OEL. It's like we are cursed. If JT is next, we're &^@#ed. 

 

Rumors are that he's looking at 7M over 5/6 years. that's pretty reasonable isn't it? Or is that the narrative that his agents want to throw out there to make him even more attractive as a UFA? 

 

[Bure_Pavel]

7 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

It's just a never ending perpetual state of bad contracts. Hockey gods must hate us. First Loui, then Myers, and then OEL. It's like we are cursed. If JT is next, we're &^@#ed. 

 

Rumors are that he's looking at 7M over 5/6 years. that's pretty reasonable isn't it? Or is that the narrative that his agents want to throw out there to make him even more attractive as a UFA? 

 

If that's all he is looking for then I would sign him on the spot, I would be very surprised if that rumor is true though. 

[aGENT]

13 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

how's that? Isn't that his QO? 

 

A qualifying offer is just a qualifying offer. We can extend him on whatever terms he, his agent and management agree to, which could be something like $6.5m or $6.75m x6. Or we can also take him to arbitration and end up at closer to $6.4m x 1. 

 

We don't have this $7.5 gun pointed at our head that everyone seems to think we do.

[Baggins]

1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Depends on how much the greater player wants and if he fits in the teams timeline to compete. Can we afford to give miller 8 years if we arent competitive for another 2-3 years? What happens if he Loui's us, and his game drops off at 31 years old?

The same could be said of Horvat and Boeser. For both their next contract will run well into their 30's and those contracts both come within your 2 to 3 year timeline. What happens if either or both of them Louie us? You're playing one side of a two sided 'what if' coin. My arguement in favor of Miller is, typically goal scoring declines quicker with age than playmaking does. Miller is not only more physical than the other two he's head and shoulders above them as a playmaker. Plus he has the versatility of playing all three forward positions. No matter how you slice it we will have players signed well into their 30's before we are actually contenders. Unless you want to go more towards full rebuild and move them all for futures and waste more years of Demko, Hughes, and Pettersson. I get Horvat and Boeser are popular here because we drafted them. I don't care whether we draft, trade for, or sign a player. I care about having the best team possible regardless of the source.

 

Speaking of 'what if's'. Horvat has already said he's tired of losing. What if he doesn't want to wait till his 30's to see a light at the end of the tunnel? What if he choses the free agent market instead of resigning to wait longer and hope? Although Boeser will be RFA will he want to wait till he's pushing 30's or would he, as speculated with Miller, prefer to be playing back home in the US and ask to be traded? What if's are a slippery slope.

[appleboy]

Trading one top player to clear enough cap space to give two of our other top players more money makes our club better, how?

 

Doesn't that just make us weaker?  

 

With more more money tied up in less players.    LOL

[Bure_Pavel]

53 minutes ago, Baggins said:

The same could be said of Horvat and Boeser. For both their next contract will run well into their 30's and those contracts both come within your 2 to 3 year timeline. What happens if either or both of them Louie us? You're playing one side of a two sided 'what if' coin. My arguement in favor of Miller is, typically goal scoring declines quicker with age than playmaking does. Miller is not only more physical than the other two he's head and shoulders above them as a playmaker. Plus he has the versatility of playing all three forward positions. No matter how you slice it we will have players signed well into their 30's before we are actually contenders. Unless you want to go more towards full rebuild and move them all for futures and waste more years of Demko, Hughes, and Pettersson. I get Horvat and Boeser are popular here because we drafted them. I don't care whether we draft, trade for, or sign a player. I care about having the best team possible regardless of the source.

 

Speaking of 'what if's'. Horvat has already said he's tired of losing. What if he doesn't want to wait till his 30's to see a light at the end of the tunnel? What if he choses the free agent market instead of resigning to wait longer and hope? Although Boeser will be RFA will he want to wait till he's pushing 30's or would he, as speculated with Miller, prefer to be playing back home in the US and ask to be traded? What if's are a slippery slope.

Horvat is 2 years younger than Miller and our Captain, Boeser is 4 years younger and contract is up after this year. Giving Bo 8 years is the equivalent of giving Miller 6 years age wise. 

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

We don't have to pay Boeser $7.5m at all.

We don't. But he could simply wait for his QO and accept it. Then leave it to management/agent to set the term on that $7.5m salary offer. If he's not re-signed before the QO is needed to retain his rights that is the risk. It brings up the question: how honorable do you believe him to be when it comes to his contract? I'm honestly not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing that he's not having a very good season.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how all of this plays out through to summer 2023.

 

[Bure_Pavel]

44 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Trading one top player to clear enough cap space to give two of our other top players more money makes our club better, how?

 

Doesn't that just make us weaker?  

 

With more more money tied up in less players.    LOL

2>1. Would rather lose Miller than Horvat and Boeser