lmm Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 21 minutes ago, qwijibo said: Why would a team picking 1st OA trade it away for one year of Miller? kind of wondering the same thing when looking at the Brock proposals I think unless its a sign and trade, Brock is worth a 3rd Erhoff garnered us a 4th, so maybe a 4th 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, qwijibo said: Why would a team picking 1st OA trade it away for one year of Miller? I would assume that any team trading for Miller (don't think we should trade him), would make it contingent to having an agreement for an extension. Again, trading Miller was not my suggestion, it was the OP asking if trading him would get us into the top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, lmm said: I think unless its a sign and trade, Brock is worth a 3rd Erhoff garnered us a 4th, so maybe a 4th Copp got Wpg quite a bit more than that and he's essentially a pure rental. I think Allvin could do better than a 3rd or 4th for BB. Say what you want about his upcoming contract, but the fact is in any regular length season, Brock is a perennial 20+ goal scorer, that's higher value than a mid round pick imo. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny in Vancouver Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Just curious - in your dream, how many positions from the number 32 spot did Podkolzin get us? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Fanuck said: Copp got Wpg quite a bit more than that and he's essentially a pure rental. I think Allvin could do better than a 3rd or 4th for BB. Say what you want about his upcoming contract, but the fact is in any regular length season, Brock is a perennial 20+ goal scorer, that's higher value than a mid round pick imo. but Rental season is over If Brock was traded last deadline, sure he'd have brought more but because of his QO price Brock is essentially a UFA, (that is unqualified RFA = UFA) the Canucks could afford to wait on Miller because he has a year left not trading Brock was the "miss" of Alvin's first TDL day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, LTC123 said: What IF::: we moved DOWN in the draft? #15 + Miller to (Tampa, NYR, COL) For?? how many times has that actually worked? I always think of this deal when thinking about trading down I guess it worked for NJ, but can you think of any other time it worked out? Side note, man picking goalies is tough, Calgary pick Kidd and his 4.15 GGG over Marty and his 4.01 GG in the first round I guess Lou knew something about something Trevor Kidd GoalieBorn Mar 26 1972 -- Dugald, MAN [50 yrs. ago] Height 6.02 -- Weight 190 [188 cm/86 kg] Drafted by Calgary Flames - round 1 #11 overall 1990 NHL Entry Draft Player trades [notes] 1990-Jun-16 Draft pick rights traded from New Jersey Devils with round 2 pick in the 1990 draft (Vesa Viitakoski) to Calgary Flames for round 1 pick in the 1990 draft (Martin Brodeur), round 2 pick in the 1990 draft (Chris Gotziaman) and round 2 pick in the 1990 draft (David Harlock) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, lmm said: but Rental season is over If Brock was traded last deadline, sure he'd have brought more but because of his QO price Brock is essentially a UFA, (that is unqualified RFA = UFA) the Canucks could afford to wait on Miller because he has a year left not trading Brock was the "miss" of Alvin's first TDL day Worst case scenario, they just qualify him and have his rights for another year (I believe that's how it works). Then under your scenario he'd still bring more in return as a rental at the next deadline (like Copp). If everything everyone says is true, and I've heard this a lot when Allvin was announced as the GM, he (Allvin) is an incredibly smart person who is capable of 'thinking outside the box', that's one of the reasons JR liked him - he likely has several scenarios he can fall back on with regards of what to do with Miller/BB/Garland/Myers/etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Fanuck said: Worst case scenario, they just qualify him and have his rights for another year (I believe that's how it works). Then under your scenario he'd still bring more in return as a rental at the next deadline (like Copp). If everything everyone says is true, and I've heard this a lot when Allvin was announced as the GM, he (Allvin) is an incredibly smart person who is capable of 'thinking outside the box', that's one of the reasons JR liked him - he likely has several scenarios he can fall back on with regards of what to do with Miller/BB/Garland/Myers/etc.... you don't simply qualify. by qualifying you are offering a salary of $7.5million that is real money and cap Boeser is currently capped at $5.875, that is $1.6M less than $7.5 where does that cap money come from? and then there is the small problem of explaining to Miller, Horvat and Pettersson why you pay Brock more than them " Hey boy, we'd reallly like it if you'd give us a nice friendly discount, cuz, you know we kind of spent heavy on the Brockstar" It will be interesting to see how the management get out of this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, lmm said: you don't simply qualify. by qualifying you are offering a salary of $7.5million that is real money and cap Boeser is currently capped at $5.875, that is $1.6M less than $7.5 where does that cap money come from? and then there is the small problem of explaining to Miller, Horvat and Pettersson why you pay Brock more than them " Hey boy, we'd reallly like it if you'd give us a nice friendly discount, cuz, you know we kind of spent heavy on the Brockstar" It will be interesting to see how the management get out of this one Allvin can qualify Boeser if he wants to retain his rights, that'll give him time to work out the cap-implications. I see Miller and at least one of either BB or Garland traded (maybe even a D-man, Pool/Myers) this off-season or before the next TDL so there's potential to create the elusive 'cap-flexibility' Allvin and JR have been referring to so often. Additionally, it's clear with the example of the Hamonic trade that there are other options to create cap-flexibility if/when necessary - in that situation Allvin essentially halved the cap hit from Hamonic and replaced it with a comparatively competent player. I don't see having to explain to Miller or anyone else why he takes a 'friendly discount' as I don't see Miller (or BB at that QO cost anyway) here long-term anyway. I agree it will be interesting to see what Allvin does, but I think he has a lot more options than people think he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 hours ago, lmm said: I guess that explains why you are a mod I used to dream about girls now I dream about women Save some for the rest of us, my dude. Also do you provide lessons on how to be cool & radical? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, kanucks25 said: Save some for the rest of us, my dude. Also do you provide lessons on how to be cool & radical? there are millions of beautiful women in this world and I am extremely happy with one of them live long enough to not take yourself seriously 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Fanuck said: Allvin can qualify Boeser if he wants to retain his rights, that'll give him time to work out the cap-implications. I see Miller and at least one of either BB or Garland traded (maybe even a D-man, Pool/Myers) this off-season or before the next TDL so there's potential to create the elusive 'cap-flexibility' Allvin and JR have been referring to so often. Additionally, it's clear with the example of the Hamonic trade that there are other options to create cap-flexibility if/when necessary - in that situation Allvin essentially halved the cap hit from Hamonic and replaced it with a comparatively competent player. I don't see having to explain to Miller or anyone else why he takes a 'friendly discount' as I don't see Miller (or BB at that QO cost anyway) here long-term anyway. I agree it will be interesting to see what Allvin does, but I think he has a lot more options than people think he does. Maybe MLL can chime in on this, but as I understand it once the offer is there, Brock can just sign it then he is the highest paid forward on the team but not the best forward sure Alvin can try and maybe actually barter Brock down, but he gives up a lot of leverage If Brock is signed at $7.5 and I am Horvat's agent, I am looking at $10 It is basic trickle up economics the one great hope with the new management team is that the salary structure makes more sense than it did when Loui E was the highest paid player on the team the Hamonic deal was a good one, but many in the Vancouver-Ottawa and greater hockey world did not understand it I wouldn't count on that happening again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 I wonder if Boeser's agent and Allvin have been talking. Could be that management says "We can offer Brock $6.75 over X years, and if he declines, then we'll need to re-sign and move him due to cap constraints". It would be up to Brock whether he continues to play in VAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, lmm said: you don't simply qualify. by qualifying you are offering a salary of $7.5million that is real money and cap Boeser is currently capped at $5.875, that is $1.6M less than $7.5 where does that cap money come from? and then there is the small problem of explaining to Miller, Horvat and Pettersson why you pay Brock more than them " Hey boy, we'd reallly like it if you'd give us a nice friendly discount, cuz, you know we kind of spent heavy on the Brockstar" It will be interesting to see how the management get out of this one Imm I am having a little problem with your thinking here.................... Boeser stats are not............I repeat not in any area of 7.00 or higher................no where near Yes, his qualifying offer is 7.5 million, but that is high for his production, if it was, he would be worth it ( go figure) And you miss the fact that with Covid the cap has been relatively flat, but at the time of his last contract that was not the case. In fact, there was a large TV deal on the table, and Cap was expected to move up at a rate of at least 4 million per That did not happen and the players, the agents, and the GM's are all aware of that Boeser's next contract will again be a 3 year deal (IMHO) and it will be in the 6.2350 to 6.5 million range, max. His point totals do not warrant anymore than that, whether he signs here or somewhere else............ Compare his production and impact to Pettersson's and Hughes, and it is not even close You also rule out a sign and trade, or a sign and trade with retention............ If we go with the assumption that our new GM and President are smart, they would never trade him for what you suggest Edited April 14, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 5 hours ago, lmm said: I guess that explains why you are a mod I used to dream about girls now I dream about women No more boy meets girl...boy loses girl. More like man tries to understand what the hell went wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Imm I am having a little problem with your thinking here.................... Boeser stats are not............I repeat not in any area of 7.00 or higher................no where near Yes, his qualifying offer is 7.5 million, but that is high for his production, if it was, he would be worth it ( go figure) And you miss the fact that with Covid the cap has been relatively flat, but at the time of his last contract that was not the case. In fact, there was a large TV deal on the table, and Cap was expected to move up at a rate of at least 4 million per That did not happen and the players, the agents, and the GM's are all aware of that Boeser's next contract will again be a 3 year deal (IMHO) and it will be in the 6.2350 to 6.5 million range, max. His point totals do not warrant anymore than that, whether he signs here or somewhere else............ Compare his production and impact to Pettersson's and Hughes, and it is not even close You also rule out a sign and trade, or a sign and trade with retention............ If we go with the assumption that our new GM and President are smart, they would never trade him for what you suggest I'll say you are having trouble understanding me because we are saying almost the exact same thing except for the bolded I think that is just you making stuff up He is not worth $6.5 imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 11 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: No more boy meets girl...boy loses girl. More like man tries to understand what the hell went wrong! I am beyond that now thankfully 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Just now, lmm said: I'll say you are having trouble understanding me because we are saying almost the exact same thing except for the bolded I think that is just you making stuff up He is not worth $6.5 imo Maybe I am misunderstanding you, then Because I thought you said his value was a 3 or 4th round pick Which I feel is rediculous. As I feel he can be signed and traded for much more 6.25 for a player who plays 1/2 PP unit and 1/2 line is usually worth close to the 6.25/6.50 area, and I think Brock will get a raise, but I think he will be given another show me contract They will not let him just walk........no way Maybe I go you wrong, and if I do, I apologize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 17 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: No more boy meets girl...boy loses girl. More like man tries to understand what the hell went wrong! that was awesome I remember it from back in the day but enjoyed that like it was my first time truth is though it reminded me of my kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Maybe I am misunderstanding you, then Because I thought you said his value was a 3 or 4th round pick Which I feel is rediculous. As I feel he can be signed and traded for much more 6.25 for a player who plays 1/2 PP unit and 1/2 line is usually worth close to the 6.25/6.50 area, and I think Brock will get a raise, but I think he will be given another show me contract They will not let him just walk........no way Maybe I go you wrong, and if I do, I apologize I said in an earlier post that the only way I see getting more for Brock is a sign and trade but I don't see a 19 goal scorer being worth what you are suggesting and with his high QO, he holds the cards He could, ( as Ibach has suggested for months, or maybe it was Awalk) take less But he can also choose to walk and there is nothing short of offering him $7.5 the Canucks can do about it so how do you say "They will not just let him walk... no way" what have you got to back that up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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