R3aL Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 3 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said: I would add Barlow to this list as well because his game contains all the elements that winning teams need. And honestly, the fact that Stevie Y has been poking around at Danielson and Willander should say a lot. Both guys would be suitable picks at 11. I do not buy for a second that we need to trade down just to acquire one of these guys - unless we were dead certain that either player would be available. I have seen mock drafts over the last month or so where Danielson, Barlow and Willander have been pegged for the Blues at 10. I think this trade down stuff has been narrative for the most part. I am not saying it will never happen, but we are more likely to just sit at 11 and make our pick. Remember when we were going to trade back to pick Pettersson? Me too. His skating just concerns me so so much. And I prefer the others. But if we do draft Barlow I will be pulling for him huge. Yea its not looking like a trade back scenario will be happening. I think the only trade possible would be if they could package 11 + + for a pick to acquire Leo Carlsson but thats very very unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 hour ago, HighOnHockey said: I've had some question marks around his overall play creation too, but he did look pretty damn good when he was between Eiserman and Hagens. I have Eiserman ranked 3rd for 2024 and Hagens 1st for 2025 so far, so it's easy for anyone to look good with them, but it did seem like when he didn't have to be counted on to be "the guy" driving play offensively, he did ok keeping up with those two. Rewatching the U18s gold medal game today, and that was one of the game-altering changes USA's coaching made down 2-0 after two. As Craig Button explains it, Hagens and Eiserman had been called up a few weeks prior and played with Moore and had an immediate spark, but USA wanted to get Hagens back to his natural center position so they moved them down to the third and Moore played mostly with Fine, Terrance and Hendrickson through the U18s. But struggling to create offense and with the gold medal on the line they went back to that dynamic 1-2 line punch and it was just too much for Sweden to handle in the third period. Now again, I'm not sure how much credit should go to Moore as he's the veteran on the line but those kids are two of the best prospects in recent years. I couldn't help but lean to it being Eiserman. Whereas I was impressed by Wood much more than Moore with how he played with Macklin if that comparison makes sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 4 hours ago, NuckLuck19 said: Not sure he said he see’s himself as a winger, I’m saying teams will Do you see alot of 5’8” centers in the league? For one, he's not 5'8: https://thehockeywriters.com/2023-nhl-combine-heights-and-weights/ Further, while this current roster has an absolute glut of wingers, if there is NOBODY available at 11 ready to meaningfully impact the roster anytime soon, why be deterred if the BPA is a winger? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 8 hours ago, Angry Goose said: PA drafted JL last year who is definitely more of a high ceiling/offensive talent type of player. If you read through this thread/research what scouts have said, Danielson’s production has as much to do with the team he was on/his commitment to playing the right way. That’s context. Personally I will always take solid play drivers any day of the week. Some scouts have stated there is untapped offensive upside to his game. If the Canucks scouting staff have a good read on him I would be happy adding him to the org. 2 way RH C’s are pretty valuable on a team. But this is also ignoring what the Canuck’s list is and how the draft plays out too. Could be someone rated higher on the Canucks list drops to #11. Its a fascinating draft and I wish the Canucks could snag 2-3 players in the 1st round. I wonder, what the scouting report said for Miller? Traded from Rags to Tampa, 3rd line C... Just before anyone write off anybody with the 2C/3C calling card. Bo also springs to mind as a 3C... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, spook007 said: I wonder, what the scouting report said for Miller? Traded from Rags to Tampa, 3rd line C... Just before anyone write off anybody with the 2C/3C calling card. Bo also springs to mind as a 3C... You’ve just triggered @Alflives 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure961089 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 4 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said: Benson will not be a center. No chance. He'll be a good winger. I don't see these comparisons at all. Benson has skill but his game based on intelligence, he reads the play at an elite level. Those guys were flashy scorers in juniors, they didn't play the 200ft game Benson does. Benson could be a PKer in the NHL. Not saying we need to draft him or you have to want us to take him or anything, I just don't see these comparables. Benson is more substance than flash like those guys (Goldy & Shinkaruk specifically). If Reinbacher, Dvorsky, Willander & Barlow are all gone by 11, I'd really consider it. Move back & take Simashev ideally, or else Yager imo (or maybe Wood), solve a big $$$ issue & add a 2nd which should get us a good player. Its very enticing. Buddy if there all gone when we pick were looking at Leo Carlson or Will Smith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 7 hours ago, eeeeergh said: Idk how it saves us 44 million+ because: He probably isn't going to be giving us true 3C caliber performance in his first year or two of his ELC. if he does, that would be an insane success, but not something that we should expect. If we want a good 3C that can run our penalty kill, win more than 50% of faceoffs, take hard matchups, thats probably a few years in. So that might be during his bridge deal. I think hometown discounts are largely a myth, from what ive seen, we've basically had to pay market rate for anyone we draft. Maybe a million dollars off on 5m+ deals? Its an opportunity cost thing. There are quality 3Cs in this years UFA pool - Kampf, Kerfoot, Compher. And some reclamation projects too if we want to take a bit of a risk for some extra value (Monohan). Sure we might pay a bit of a premium picking up a guy like that in UFA, but think of it this way - what would we have to give up if we ever wanted to acquire a Brayden Point? Probably equivalent of 4x 1st round assets. Theres decent 3Cs available every single year. If you take a guy that has 1st line star player ceiling, the upside there both in play AND in asset value is so much higher. If Benson pans out, and if hes too small for us, he would fetch us such an absurdly big haul that the 1mil + savings on our 3C from a Danielson pales by comparison. If there's a player thats a bigger risk but has true 1st line potential we'd be stupid to draft a guy with mediocre WHL production numbers because he's a "safe bet" to be a warm body in our lineup one day. Not necessarily disagreeing, but the big question here is IF.... Boom and Bust v 3C floor and 2C potential. 1 is expected to be a player v 1 that may be a player... We need players to join the team on ELCs and not just pay over the odds for UFAs with cap money we don't have... Lekkerimaki is likely a boom/bust player, and although he seemed to find his strides ( really hope he did), he still have ways to go... If we draft another one in that category, we could be left with 4 years with out expected influx from within (although we may get some from the lower drafted players). On top of that, we need players with size. Players, who can actually play, with size seems very costly. Most teams only get these big middle line players through the draft or expensive trades. I hope we get some size with speed this year, as I'm getting tired of being steam rolled year after year. For all the jokes about Sutter, I think his illness had a lot to do with our PK sucking. He was an ok C in the NHL. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 7 hours ago, eeeeergh said: ive been very happy with how GMPA has been managing the roster Sold the absolute pico top on Horvat and got us a top pair RD and a great prospect in Raty. We'll probably even be able to turn Beauvillier into a 3rd round pick at the deadline. Bought low on Bear - got him for next to nothing. A serviceable top-4 RD for us. Got Filip Johansson for free. Got Kuzmenko (40 goal scorer) for free. Got a top-6 forward in Mikheyev in UFA instead of giving up assets for wingers like JB did. Got us picks in exchange for Schenn and Lazar. Picked up our 4c (nils aman) for free. Even turned one of their busts (stillman) into a decent B prospect (Bloom). These guys are very stingy and clearly adept at buying low/selling high. Not to mention - they had the foresight to re-sign the right player (Miller instead of Horvat) despite all of us howling at them for being morons. A+ for GMPA and the hairless compadres. Agree 100% 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 9 minutes ago, spook007 said: Not necessarily disagreeing, but the big question here is IF.... Boom and Bust v 3C floor and 2C potential. 1 is expected to be a player v 1 that may be a player... We need players to join the team on ELCs and not just pay over the odds for UFAs with cap money we don't have... Lekkerimaki is likely a boom/bust player, and although he seemed to find his strides ( really hope he did), he still have ways to go... If we draft another one in that category, we could be left with 4 years with out expected influx from within (although we may get some from the lower drafted players). On top of that, we need players with size. Players, who can actually play, with size seems very costly. Most teams only get these big middle line players through the draft or expensive trades. I hope we get some size with speed this year, as I'm getting tired of being steam rolled year after year. For all the jokes about Sutter, I think his illness had a lot to do with our PK sucking. He was an ok C in the NHL. Rienbacher. game ready esp with bear sidelined I can’t believe the amount of benson support here. I mean if there’s any take away from the playoffs it’s size. Size on the backend. Short of reinbacher willander. But he won’t be available for 2 years ( ncaa) size matters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 5 hours ago, steviewonder20 said: The link has him going 13th to the Sabres. I’m not saying the link is accurate and likely neither are most of the ones published. Personally, a big C or a big D would make me happy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 55 minutes ago, chon derry said: Rienbacher. game ready esp with bear sidelined I can’t believe the amount of benson support here. I mean if there’s any take away from the playoffs it’s size. Size on the backend. Short of reinbacher willander. But he won’t be available for 2 years ( ncaa) size matters. Agree 100%... Even if they smaller guys turns out better, we still need players with speed and size to compete... It not the first year this has been the case. Year after year its the big guy that decides the SC... they may not be the most productive, but they eventually hammer/destroy the guys with lesser Physices. Need a mix of skill/speed/ size and grit... if a player has at least 3 of these intangebles, then you are at the races. All 4 and you're on a winner. The more, the better... Vegas has played like this for years, and it works like a dream. 3-4 top players and a lot of speedy, big and gritty hard working players that wear you out... I remember Tuch hammering us time and time again during the bubble... Man would I love a couple of players like, Tuch and Mark Stone. It need s to be said here though that they found space for Marchessault in their line up as well, who isn't too big neither, so there are room for them, but they all play with grit we can only dream of atm. On a side note Marchessault just won the Con Smythe trophee... he is 32 years old. Just a remark to all those saying players reach their peak at 28-30... a lot of players play well into their 30s and do it really well, so I'm not too worried about Miller, the only top six player we have that, that plays slightly like the Vegas forward.... Edited June 15, 2023 by spook007 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 hour ago, spook007 said: I wonder, what the scouting report said for Miller? Traded from Rags to Tampa, 3rd line C... Just before anyone write off anybody with the 2C/3C calling card. Bo also springs to mind as a 3C... I don’t know but I remember the player comparison on TV said Mason Raymond hahaha 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, spook007 said: Agree 100%... Even if they smaller guys turns out better, we still need players with speed and size to compete... It not the first year this has been the case. Year after year its the big guy that decides the SC... they may not be the most productive, but they eventually hammer/destroy the guys with lesser Physices. Need a mix of skill/speed/ size and grit... if a player has at least 3 of these intangebles, then you are at the races. All 4 and you're on a winner. The more, the better... Vegas has played like this for years, and it works like a dream. 3-4 top players and a lot of speedy, big and gritty hard working players that wear you out... I remember Tuch hammering us time and time again during the bubble... Man would I love a couple of players like, Tuch and Mark Stone. It need s to be said here though that they found space for Marchessault in their line up as well, who isn't too big neither, so there are room for them, but they all play with grit we can only dream of atm. On a side note Marchessault just won the Con Smythe trophee... he is 32 years old. Just a remark to all those saying players reach their peak at 28-30... a lot of players play well into their 30s and do it really well, so I'm not too worried about Miller, the only top six player we have that, that plays slightly like the Vegas forward.... On another side note guess how big Marchessault is ? 5'9" 183Ibs. https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=106595 Elite Prospects has him at 5'9" 173 https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/32872/jonathan-marchessault Benson is nearly an inch taller according to the draft combine info @Down by the River posted a few posts above this. https://thehockeywriters.com/2023-nhl-combine-heights-and-weights/ It also lists him at 170 Ibs, which is ten Ibs heavier than elite Prospects lists him as. He can easily put on 10- 15 pounds in the next few years. Edit Just noted Marchessault was not drafted. I wonder if that was due to his size. Edited June 15, 2023 by Ilunga 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 54 minutes ago, Devron said: I don’t know but I remember the player comparison on TV said Mason Raymond hahaha lol... how far off the truth was that... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 14 minutes ago, Ilunga said: On another side note guess how big Marchessault is ? 5'9" 183Ibs. https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=106595 Elite Prospects has him at 5'9" 173 https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/32872/jonathan-marchessault Benson is nearly an inch taller according to the draft combine info @Down by the River posted a few posts above this. https://thehockeywriters.com/2023-nhl-combine-heights-and-weights/ It also lists him at 170 Ibs, which is ten Ibs heavier than elite Prospects lists him as. He can easily put on 10- 15 pounds in the next few years. Edit Just noted Marchessault was not drafted. I wonder if that was due to his size. Spot on amigo. Yes I think, I said that too, that there are room for smaller players as well, when I mentioned Marchessault... The issue is not a smaller player, it is if you fill the team with smaller players and the larger players doesn't ply to their size... i could easily see Hogs be the kind of player Jonathan is, as he still have ways to go... What I sometimes find funny is when a player with potential is drafted and everyone agree, he could take time to reach his potential, but after 2-3 years the same people are ready to write him off... I don't dish Benson at all, and I think he could potentially be an exceptional player, but I feel the team needs some size and grit now, as these players also need time to fill out. I always hear, we can get them free agency or they are cheap, but the players in FA cost big $ and the ones that are cheap, are cheap for a reason. If you can list a team of hard working 2nd and 3rd liners, to go with your 2-3 stars, you are almost certainly in the play offs... Vegas and Seattle has shown that recently... PS. I think you hit the nail on the head, when saying why he wasn't drafted... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 10 minutes ago, spook007 said: Spot on amigo. Yes I think, I said that too, that there are room for smaller players as well, when I mentioned Marchessault... The issue is not a smaller player, it is if you fill the team with smaller players and the larger players doesn't ply to their size... i could easily see Hogs be the kind of player Jonathan is, as he still have ways to go... What I sometimes find funny is when a player with potential is drafted and everyone agree, he could take time to reach his potential, but after 2-3 years the same people are ready to write him off... I don't dish Benson at all, and I think he could potentially be an exceptional player, but I feel the team needs some size and grit now, as these players also need time to fill out. I always hear, we can get them free agency or they are cheap, but the players in FA cost big $ and the ones that are cheap, are cheap for a reason. If you can list a team of hard working 2nd and 3rd liners, to go with your 2-3 stars, you are almost certainly in the play offs... Vegas and Seattle has shown that recently... PS. I think you hit the nail on the head, when saying why he wasn't drafted... I believe both teams, especially Seattle illustrated what a team playing a good system/ structure where all the players buy into their roles can achieve. The Kraken have no big stars or big salaries. A good coach not only has to come up with a great game plan, but also motivate his players to buy into it, and get the best out of them. Sure you need some big bodies, it's a physical game that's goes up a notch in the playoffs. As the saying goes a champion team will beat a team of champions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ilunga said: I believe both teams, especially Seattle illustrated what a team playing a good system/ structure where all the players buy into their roles can achieve. The Kraken have no big stars or big salaries. A good coach not only has to come up with a great game plan, but also motivate his players to buy into it, and get the best out of them. Sure you need some big bodies, it's a physical game that's goes up a notch in the playoffs. As the saying goes a champion team will beat a team of champions. Yep agree... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuckLuck19 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 4 hours ago, Down by the River said: For one, he's not 5'8: https://thehockeywriters.com/2023-nhl-combine-heights-and-weights/ Further, while this current roster has an absolute glut of wingers, if there is NOBODY available at 11 ready to meaningfully impact the roster anytime soon, why be deterred if the BPA is a winger? Is 5’9.75 materially different from 5’8”? I don’t think so personally. The point is the same he’s short and small physically. And BPA in my book isn’t about points in junior. It’s about who is best suited for THIS team and it’s needs and who’s game is most likely to translate to the NHL successfully. I don’t think that is Benson for the Canucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Ilunga said: On another side note guess how big Marchessault is ? 5'9" 183Ibs. https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=106595 Elite Prospects has him at 5'9" 173 https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/32872/jonathan-marchessault Benson is nearly an inch taller according to the draft combine info @Down by the River posted a few posts above this. https://thehockeywriters.com/2023-nhl-combine-heights-and-weights/ It also lists him at 170 Ibs, which is ten Ibs heavier than elite Prospects lists him as. He can easily put on 10- 15 pounds in the next few years. Edit Just noted Marchessault was not drafted. I wonder if that was due to his size. The combine has Benson as the same height as Bedard. Plus Benson seems to be going through a growth period too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 hour ago, NuckLuck19 said: Is 5’9.75 materially different from 5’8”? I don’t think so personally. The point is the same he’s short and small physically. And BPA in my book isn’t about points in junior. It’s about who is best suited for THIS team and it’s needs and who’s game is most likely to translate to the NHL successfully. I don’t think that is Benson for the Canucks Benson at 5’10 and 180 will be a better player than a lot of bigger players. He has high character, super hyper compete, elite skill and vision, and he’s (likely) the best 200 foot forward of the skilled guys. We need to draft these types of players. If there is a bigger player at 11OA with the same traits then if we should select him. But if not then we take Benson. Always choose BPA. No Benning picks for “need”. Unless need and BPA coincides. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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