Boudreau Canucks Last Year vs. This Year: Explaining the Difference

[Kevin Biestra]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Or maybe OEL just isn't as good as folks want him to be.   Deep questions, deep thoughts.   He's not that expensive but he's also not cheap, that applies to both, but at least one is a RHD, and worst case, like Edler and his 6 million dollar extension, won't be here after next season at that price anyways.   OEL?  Well......darn.  

 

The Canucks are more famous for stuff like the goalie graveyard, but they are developing quite the history of walking from good defensemen to pursue something else and then regretting it (or at least the fans are left to).  Willie Mitchell, Edler, Tanev, Jocelyn Guevremont etc.  Harold left as a free agent around 1985 and there was no reason we couldn't have used him (though we actually had decent D depth around then).  None of these guys got us a Garth Butcher package though.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Kevin Biestra

[JamesB]

1 hour ago, UnkNuk said:

Given the amount of criticism that Miller has come in for from some in this forum, this is an interesting stat.

Yes, it is interesting. Miller had a bad start but since moving to the wing on Horvat's line he has been very good.

 

He is not good on the PK but he is very good on the PP.

 

Overall, he is in the top 4 on the team by measures like xGAR (expected goals above replacement).

 

But it is not like a lot of guys on the team are playing really well. Petey is,  and Kuz is good with Petey. And Horvat looks like he might have a career years. But things drop off fast after that. Even Hughes has had a disappointing start (not bad, but not as good as expected).

 

Miller's current performance is good for his current cap hit but not good enough to justify his new contract with an 8 million cap hit.  So that contract still makes me nervous.

[Gurn]

Goals above replacement is a good stat for Miller.

How does he do in, goals allowed above replacement?

does it look like his plus minus?

 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

Given the amount of criticism that Miller has come in for from some in this forum, this is an interesting stat.

The criticism is more at the extension than the player. There may be a bit for his defensive lapses/throwing pucks up the middle etc (and maybe the fact that he looked pretty suspect at C), but he's still a good player (at W) and still roughly 1PPG, even during this $#!+ show to start the season. The guy's a talented, 1PPG+ power forward, flaws or not.

 

We just should have moved him for cap space and assets to build around the young core instead of signing to a retirement deal that is all but guaranteed to be of poor value for at least half of. This team wasn't good enough to double down on the status quo.

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

The criticism is more at the extension than the player. There may be a bit for his defensive lapses/throwing pucks up the middle etc (and maybe the fact that he looked pretty suspect at C), but he's still a good player (at W) and still roughly 1PPG, even during this $#!+ show to start the season. The guy's a talented, 1PPG+ power forward, flaws or not.

 

We just should have moved him for cap space and assets to build around the young core instead of signing to a retirement deal that is all but guaranteed to be of poor value for at least half of. This team wasn't good enough to double down on the status quo.

 

Try convincing our owner of this fact though.  (IMHAO) That’s where this whole “try to win now” direction to management comes from. 

We have a great owner, but he needs to accept that properly rebuilding (like suggested to him by both Gillis and then Linden) needs to be done.  Maybe we can build around Petey, Hughes, and Demko, but I’m not too sure if the timing will work.  For sure though we need to tank for a couple years and hope to draft elite players who will contribute very fast.  Then we can do a Colorado.  

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Or maybe OEL just isn't as good as folks want him to be.   Deep questions, deep thoughts.   He's not that expensive but he's also not cheap, that applies to both, but at least one is a RHD, and worst case, like Edler and his 6 million dollar extension, won't be here after next season at that price anyways.   OEL?  Well......darn.  

Yeah, it’s definitely a possibility and a reason for concern.

 

Clearly OEL will never be the player he was in his prime. He’s declined significantly since those years. On the positive side, at his very peak, one could make the argument that he was one of the most valuable players in the entire league. He’s a long way from that now, but last season he still exceeded my expectations (especially compared to how he had been trending). I’d hoped his positive play would carry into this year, and maybe even for one or two more seasons, but right now it’s hard to say whether he’s in the middle of a minor slump, or we're watching the appearance of his second stage of age related decline.
 

Hopefully his current underperformance is temporary. In a recent interview, OEL admitted he’s been nowhere close to good enough this year, and knows he needs to get a lot better. He seems to think he can do it, which is always a good thing (although most pros have this kind of confidence—few would make it this far without a high level of self-belief). And he also stated there are no injury issues, which is good (if indeed true). Hopefully it’s just a bad start, and maybe some mental stuff and him just needing to rebuild his confidence and get the “feel” back. 
 

But his play this season has worried me. He’s looked disengaged and sluggish at times. Gets caught out of position or flat-footed. Not particularly active or effective on pressuring opponents or working for stops and puck recoveries. Puckmoving ability also seems lacking. He often seems to outright avoid the puck, deferring to his partner whenever possible. And when he does try to make plays, his timing seems off and his skills just don’t seem to be there for him right now. Lots of bad passes and bad reads.

Also, he’s been a drain on special teams (and not particularly good at 5v5 either, TBH). I don’t think they can necessarily afford to replace him on the PK (or have better options), but, unless he turns things around soon, I really think he needs to come off the power play for a while (especially if the team can find a way to get Rathbone into the lineup).
 

I’m assuming Bruce is trusting in a veteran to play through his issues and banking on it eventually coming together. But OEL certainly hasn’t been earning his roles and opportunities this year, if judged solely by the results. It’s reputation and perception that’s carrying him right now, rightly or wrongly (and for the most part, the sample isn’t large enough yet to stop giving a veteran player of OEL’s profile the benefit of the doubt, but the clock is ticking). Hopefully, he gets things back on track, and proves he’s still a high value player for this team and one who’s deserving of the icetime and usage he’s getting (as well as his role and position on the depth chart and within the salary structure).

[MaxVerstappen33]

^ The Sedins were part of the reason we got OEL. O doubt OEL will mail it in when he knows they vouched for him. 

 

2 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

The Canucks are more famous for stuff like the goalie graveyard, but they are developing quite the history of walking from good defensemen to pursue something else and then regretting it (or at least the fans are left to).  Willie Mitchell, Edler, Tanev, Jocelyn Guevremont etc.  Harold left as a free agent around 1985 and there was no reason we couldn't have used him (though we actually had decent D depth around then).  None of these guys got us a Garth Butcher package though.

 

 

Beiksa too. He wanted to play his whole career at the Canucks

Edited November 5, 2022 by MaxVerstappen33

[Wanless]

3 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

And then watch him score 30 goals in 70 games in Chicago ?

 

F , that.

Cant hold on to players for fear of what they will do for another team

 

you trade players to teams who believe they will flourish for a good return

[MaxVerstappen33]

8 minutes ago, Wanless said:

Cant hold on to players for fear of what they will do for another team

 

you trade players to teams who believe they will flourish for a good return

Yes. You can. Live or die with your own prospects. Letting players you didn't draft walk is something different. (Like say Erhoff or Miller) But when you get rid of a player that you drafted and developed, it is a wound that never heals. Cam Neely hangs over this franchise to this day. Nobody ever forgets it. 

 

Get rid of Garland or someone like that to clear the books. 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by MaxVerstappen33

[Wanless]

1 hour ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Yes. You can. Live or die with your own prospects. Letting players you didn't draft walk is something different. (Like say Erhoff or Miller) But when you get rid of a player that you drafted and developed, it is a wound that never heals. Cam Neely hangs over this franchise to this day. Nobody ever forgets it. 

 

Get rid of Garland or someone like that to clear the books. 

 

 

Ok

[ToTellTheTruth]

Age, older players very rarely get faster.

Dependence on one player, Demko.

Playing so they can be traded

Injuries catching up

A bad room. Been talked about for years.

 

If anyone is watching Demko he isn't moving the same side to side or the splits and his posture is a little different too. I read his hips operations could be causing him trouble that was an opinion.

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

Bruce changed up a winning lineup last time. Now he's not changing up a losing lineup. Strange