Elias Pettersson Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: The idea that a team is going to scrape the bottom for half a decade, spend to the bottom of the cap and then spring into action just makes me think of the offseason where Loui, Lucic and Okposo all signed huge deals and pooped their pants. Like… aha! Time to strike!…. Awww. You’re also undoubtedly throwing your high draft picks to the wolves year after year - and they’ll be expected to score all the points, seriously endangering them developing as true 2 way threats. It’s just all theory and buzz, very little practical application. Matty Beniers seems to be doing just fine. And Seattle was smart enough to send Wright back to junior to further develop. Seems like Ron Francis has a plan and is sticking to it. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: This is exactly what Seattle did. They didn't spend to the cap, they had millions in cap savings that they carried over into this year and made good use of the cap space they didn't spend to become a quality playoff team in less than two years. the expansion draft is rigged to give immediate success - probably multiplied given the flat cap. But the biggest factor is the opportunity to take a 2nd pairing D man from every team in the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: True, but I don't think Aquilini had a love affair with OEL and told Benning to get the deal done at any cost. That is on Benning. I am sure there were other deals out there that made sense that could have helped us without putting us in cap hell right now. Agreed. But the push from Aquilini to make a trade for older players in hopes to make the playoffs was (IMHAO) the impetuous to the Benning terrible OEL Trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: Matty Beniers seems to be doing just fine. And Seattle was smart enough to send Wright back to junior to further develop. Seems like Ron Francis has a plan and is sticking to it. This is such a bad example - I should hope an expansion team under these conditions would find some success. As it stands they have a long way to even reach what Vegas did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckRookieFan Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, EP Phone Home said: I think we found Aquilini’s CDC account. Yes Frankie just keep spending to the cap and run it back, one of these days we will get in the playoffs and anything can happen. It’ll be great, two weeks of being relevant and getting 2 home games of gate revenue. All worth the 10+++ years of mediocrity. But it’s his team, his direction. That said just wait for the aftermath. Season ticket sales are going to plummet and the value of the club will deteriorate even worse then it has the past decade. Fans here are loyal and have plenty of hockey knowledge. Don’t get confused loyalty with blind stupidity. The gig is up and most fans aren’t buying what this ownership is selling and that’s the bottom line. This isn't about fans tho, why are you positioning your argument about fans? The team is a business its about profits, Aquas decisions are based on 2 things: personal satisfaction/entertainment and second profits. No where does what "fans" want is of any relevance to the business. FYI ticket sales or season ticket sales are no longer the main revenue generator, Aqua like many other screwed GMs have signed extremely lucrative deals with streaming platforms, TV deal, radio, merchandise programs, food sales, TD bank sponsorship, and even more the new digital boards double stack with traditional in arena advertisment, also Canucks have many business backes tickets that couldn't care less about wins or losses like many corporate events the arena serves as a backdrop of business discussions or drunken after dinner showcases for business relations no one even pays attention to the actual outcome sorry to break your bubble. This team this franchise this entire organization severs one purpose to make Aqua delighted and to generate money for him, so to the "freedom" of speech the Canucks allow for fans to voice their displeasure is basically a sharade while they continue on with their own agenda. I am perfectly okay with this as a new fan of hockey and someone who also uses the games to impress dates and family members when they visit - not everyone is obsessed about wins or losses some of us are just happy to have a team in town. Edited January 18, 2023 by CanuckRookieFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Just now, Alflives said: Agreed. But the push from Aquilini to make a trade for older players in hopes to make the playoffs was (IMHAO) the impetuous to the Benning terrible OEL Trade. If Benning was as good at making trades as Pat Quinn he would still be the GM of this team and we would be a playoff team right now, maybe even contending... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: This is such a bad example - I should hope an expansion team under these conditions would find some success. As it stands they have a long way to even reach what Vegas did. Vegas is in cap hell right now. I think Seattle is much better positioned to succeed long term than Vegas. Vegas also doesn't have any young prospects to speak of. They went all in in their first year and now are paying the price for long term success in my opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyu Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: What I meant was they didn't spend to the cap in their first year, so that cap space was still available for this year... Got it. Thanks. I thought there was a way to bank on cap space, which could be used in the subsequent year. Definitely very wise of them to take the patient approach rather than trying to build a winning roster right off the bat, which must not have been easy thing to do with the precedence set by Vegas going to the cup final in their first season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Matty Beniers seems to be doing just fine. And Seattle was smart enough to send Wright back to junior to further develop. Seems like Ron Francis has a plan and is sticking to it. Sounds like Seattle has an owner who allows Francis (The Talking Mule) to do what the GM believes is best. Not so sure our owner would allow this kind of freedom to his GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: The idea that a team is going to scrape the bottom for half a decade, spend to the bottom of the cap and then spring into action just makes me think of the offseason where Loui, Lucic and Okposo all signed huge deals and pooped their pants. Like… aha! Time to strike!…. Awww. You’re also undoubtedly throwing your high draft picks to the wolves year after year - and they’ll be expected to score all the points, seriously endangering them developing as true 2 way threats. It’s just all theory and buzz, very little practical application. We are already seeing the practical application of the Canucks strategy play itself out right now and the team is to use your words 'scraping the bottom of the barrel' so no need for hypotheticals. There is also no need for a single moment when you decide to "spring into action" and blow all of your cap on UFAs, the logic is to spend your cap opportunistically. This applies to real life as well, when you are investing your money its smart to build up your cash reserves and wait for the market to correct itself rather than blowing it all in a couple of trades. The amount that the players were paying into escrow was going up each year, the rumblings were there, players were already complaining about it. A GM with foresight would see that the cap going up every year was unsustainable, just like the stock exchange doesn't go up every year. The pandemic just precipitated the eventual collapse. Even without it there would have been a moment of correction, a moment when the bubble would break and the PA would stop using the escalator like clockwork. Had the Canucks as an organization shown some actual restraint, they could have taken advantage of the cap crunch rather than the ones being taken advantage of. Edited January 18, 2023 by Toews 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: If Benning was as good at making trades as Pat Quinn he would still be the GM of this team and we would be a playoff team right now, maybe even contending... for sure Quinn was great. But maybe Keenan and Burke make our most important trades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 9 minutes ago, Toews said: If you think that the OEL trade was 'incredible value' then I am not even argue that because I think we are on completely different planets. Even if I were to accept your premise imagine if they did not have to dump those "guys everyone wanted gone", we could have gotten Arizona to give us their high draft pick instead of giving up our own. Top 2-3 dman on any team in the league 40+ points Team captain All star 7th in Norris voting in 2014 Do you think those guys come up all the time? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Is there any reality where JR actually beliefs the craperolla about not rebuilding but retooling by trading for NHL players, who struggled during their ELCs, is how to build a winner? IMHAO that’s him following his owner’s direction. He’s protecting the owner. No way JR believes that’s how to build a winner around our current core. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Top 2-3 dman on any team in the league 40+ points Team captain All star 7th in Norris voting in 2014 Do you think those guys come up all the time? Fine for 2014. But Benning traded for the 2021 version. 7 years older! What was Garland like in 2014, when he was 12? Edited January 18, 2023 by Alflives 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) . Edited January 18, 2023 by Alflives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, Toews said: We are already seeing the practical application of the Canucks strategy play itself out right now and the team is to use your words 'scraping the bottom of the barrel' so no need for hypotheticals. There is also no need for a single moment when you decide to "spring into action" and blow all of your cap on UFAs, the logic is to spend your cap opportunistically. This applies to real life as well, when you are investing your money its smart to build up your cash reserves and wait for the market to correct itself rather than blowing it all in a couple of trades. The amount that the players were paying into escrow was going up each year, the rumblings were there, players were already complaining about it. A GM with foresight would see that the cap going up every year was unsustainable, just like the stock exchange doesn't go up every year. The pandemic just precipitated the eventual collapse. Even without it there would have been a moment of correction, a moment when the bubble would break and the PA would stop using the escalator like clockwork. Had the Canucks as an organization shown some actual restraint, they could have taken advantage of the cap crunch rather than the ones being taken advantage of. I don’t agree with the financial / athletic parallel but even still, they could have literally done all of that if Rutherford would have traded Miller instead of re-signing him (and Boeser.). Even with moving for OEL and Garland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Western Red Posted January 18, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, stawns said: Top 2-3 dman on any team in the league 40+ points Team captain All star 7th in Norris voting in 2014 Do you think those guys come up all the time? I was following you, But 7th in Norris 9 years ago is a far cry from present. We're f**ked. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 1 minute ago, ilduce39 said: I don’t agree with the financial / athletic parallel but even still, they could have literally done all of that if Rutherford would have traded Miller instead of re-signing him (and Boeser.). Even with moving for OEL and Garland. Maybe trading Miller was not allowed by the owner? And the owner insisted Miller was extended too? Remember this is the owner who recently hired Boudreau before he hired a GM and who travelled to Vegas to talk to Tocchet about being our next coach. He’s not exactly a hands off, keep his snout out of hockey ops kind of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post J-23 Posted January 18, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, stawns said: Top 2-3 dman on any team in the league 40+ points Team captain All star 7th in Norris voting in 2014 Do you think those guys come up all the time? No way you just said 7th for Norris in 2014 lol. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Vegas is in cap hell right now. I think Seattle is much better positioned to succeed long term than Vegas. Vegas also doesn't have any young prospects to speak of. They went all in in their first year and now are paying the price for long term success in my opinion. Vegas could have had a few cups already with the right bounces as well - eventually you have to go for it and I don’t think anyone would say they weren’t contenders. A tight cap situation is par for the course for the sustained success they’ve had. Seattle has had half a good season. We’ll see if they stay restrained now that they’re on top of the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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