[Proposal] Bye Bye to Myers, Garland and Boeser

[Ted Lasso]

 

[BigTramFan]

4 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

Looking at our forward depth and cap allocation, SOMEONE has to go!

 

Garland and Hoglander are similar size and play a similar game, but if he can step up again next season, Hoglander is significantly less expensive.

 

I've actually said for about 3 years that I thought we should trade Boeser. Not because I don't think he's a good player, but because RW is an area of relative strength and I viewed him as someone who could be moved for assets who would strengthen other areas.

 

I doubt that Pearson will play next season with what I'm hearing about his hand, but Mikheyev will be back and capable of playing either wing.

 

Add in, Podkolzin, Raty, Karlsson, Klimovich (I think needs another half season in AHL), Bains (been impressive down in AHL), Sasson, McDonough and Kravtsov, all potentially bubble guys to make the team and push for spots. 

 

Unless they are suddenly going to reverse course on Miller and move him before his NMC kicks in, either Boeser, or Garland need to go, I don't think there's another forward that makes sense to move.

 

Just my opinion at least.

Totally agree about Hogs and his potential. I really feel everyone is sleeping on him. Lots of people saying use him as a sweetener to trade someone else. He has only been put down in Abby because of his waiver situation. He will come to camp next season ready to fight for a top 6 spot.

 

 

[BigTramFan]

5 hours ago, nuck-lifer said:

Thinking 2.2M for 3 years or something like that. He's going to be 26 in June so don't expect much more on a show me year.

His minutes indicate a 3rd pairing D can play top 4 when needed. He's not involved with either of the PP units and is #4 or 5 man on the PK so most minutes are 5-5.

Decent puck retriever, not overly physical, OK offensive numbers. 2M range is the most he's worth and he been treated well in Van after sitting in Carolina.

Yeah I don't hate that approach and I don't dislike Bear as a player in isolation.

 

But if you are signing Bear at say $2.2m as a 3rd pairing RD then you aren't going to be able to afford to keep OEL on the bottom pairing too. So you're either buying OEL out (which causes cap trouble in 2 years time) or you aren't signing a guy like Gavrikov, who is the kinda player we need to significantly improve our defense.

 

I really don't want to see a defense line up like this next season:

 

Hughes Hronek

OEL Bear

Brisebois Myers

(Wolanin Burroughs)

 

Apart from the top pairing, it's woeful.

[mll]

Peeke is available but don't really see CBJ all that interested in Garland or Bear.   Feels rather lopsided cap wise.  Peeke is a 2.75M cap hit.  Garland is near 5M + Bear's QO is already 2.2M - ie they are adding for near 5M worth of contracts without really making their team any better.   

 

CBJ really needs to improve their D-corps, as Portzline puts it they now have Werenski and a bunch of bottom pairing Ds after losing Gavrikov - ie not sure they'll want to divert money to an undersized F who is not really a goal scorer either.

 

Kekaleinen seems hopeful they'll get Texier back next season so that would put their top-6 wings full having already Laine, Gaudreau, Marchenko + Johnson has been playing top-6 wing.

 

Kekaleinen does say he wants to add some vets to support their kids' growth + they've been worried about liberties taken on their kids.  I wonder if they might not target a more versatile veteran that can also play C + also some kind of physical / intimidating presence for their bottom-6.  

 

Rutherford just named Bear in his letter to season ticket holders - wouldn't expect him to be available.  Don't think CBJ would want Bear either - too much of what they already have - Ds who have made the NHL but are not solid enough to carry a pairing or help a younger D take the next step.  Would expect them to want a more veteran D as stop gap to buy development time.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by mll

[mll]

I don't really get those trades where there are tag along players when teams are so mindful about cap space.  Would expect Boeser, Garland to have more interest as stand alone unless you are adding a top flight prospect / high draft pick vs players that might not even be lineup regulars on a contender - Dermott or Bear weren't on their previous teams.  Bear and Dermott were also on the block for a long time.  

 

Boeser + Dermott and his 1.75M QO - ie potentially near 8.4M in cap.  

Garland + Bear and his 2.2M QO - ie potentially over 7M in cap.

 

[BigTramFan]

58 minutes ago, mll said:

I don't really get those trades where there are tag along players when teams are so mindful about cap space.  Would expect Boeser, Garland to have more interest as stand alone unless you are adding a top flight prospect / high draft pick vs players that might not even be lineup regulars on a contender - Dermott or Bear weren't on their previous teams.  Bear and Dermott were also on the block for a long time.  

 

Boeser + Dermott and his 1.75M QO - ie potentially near 8.4M in cap.  

Garland + Bear and his 2.2M QO - ie potentially over 7M in cap.

 

PIT will still be in contending mode for at least the next 2-3 seasons while Crosby and Malkin are playing. They have the Zucker (5.5m) and Dumoulin (4.1m) contracts expiring this off season, so taking on ~8.4m in cap in replacement players should not be an issue. Paying a 2nd round pick to replace a top 6 forward and a 3rd pairing LD, that can step into top 4 if required, is not too expensive (assuming they put Rutta into the 2LD spot and Dermott plays 3LD).

 

CBJ will has $18.6m in cap space with 20 players signed. If they get Texier back then they could easily look at running with 3 scoring lines, centered by Texier, Jenner and Rosovic. Their top 9 wingers could be Gaudreau, Laine, Marchenko, Johnson, Robinson and Garland.

 

Assuming Jiricek is on their NHL roster then, they will have 21 players signed with $17.7m in cap space. If they made the proposed trade then they add a further $4.4m and have 22 players signed with $13.3m in cap space still available. That money would be spent on Texier, plus I expect them to focus on signing a top 4 LD to pair with Boqvist, someone like Graves would be ideal.

 

Moving out 3 years of Peeke for Bear who would be on a 1-year contract provides the roster space they need as Jiricek and Ceulemans develop into NHL players. Bear is a convenient stop gap at RD. Granted they could find someone cheaper on a 1-year deal.

 

If CBJ are not interested in either Garland or Bear, then moving them elsewhere and trading a 3rd round pick for Peeke would be an alternative option.

[hammertime]

8 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Yes I think you could get Holl for half the AAV of Peeke, but then you may as well just stick with Juulsen or Poolman (if he's healthy). As they are all bottom pairing guys.

 

Peeke is a potential top 4 player. Also Holl is 31 whereas Peeke is 25, so I am targeting a player that can partner Hughes for the next 8 years.

 

In my opinion Mayfield will cost more than $2.75m to sign as a UFA. Also he's 30, so you wouldn't want to sign him for more than 3 years.

That's all well and good but you have to give to get. This notion that Garland for Peeke is just not remotely close.

[mll]

6 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

PIT will still be in contending mode for at least the next 2-3 seasons while Crosby and Malkin are playing. They have the Zucker (5.5m) and Dumoulin (4.1m) contracts expiring this off season, so taking on ~8.4m in cap in replacement players should not be an issue. Paying a 2nd round pick to replace a top 6 forward and a 3rd pairing LD, that can step into top 4 if required, is not too expensive (assuming they put Rutta into the 2LD spot and Dermott plays 3LD).

 

CBJ will has $18.6m in cap space with 20 players signed. If they get Texier back then they could easily look at running with 3 scoring lines, centered by Texier, Jenner and Rosovic. Their top 9 wingers could be Gaudreau, Laine, Marchenko, Johnson, Robinson and Garland.

 

Assuming Jiricek is on their NHL roster then, they will have 21 players signed with $17.7m in cap space. If they made the proposed trade then they add a further $4.4m and have 22 players signed with $13.3m in cap space still available. That money would be spent on Texier, plus I expect them to focus on signing a top 4 LD to pair with Boqvist, someone like Graves would be ideal.

 

Moving out 3 years of Peeke for Bear who would be on a 1-year contract provides the roster space they need as Jiricek and Ceulemans develop into NHL players. Bear is a convenient stop gap at RD. Granted they could find someone cheaper on a 1-year deal.

 

If CBJ are not interested in either Garland or Bear, then moving them elsewhere and trading a 3rd round pick for Peeke would be an alternative option.

As you point out Pittsburgh has some cap space so don't really see why they would spend on lesser players vs paying a bit more to get someone better than Dermott.  They only have so few years left and can't really waste time on experiments.  Dermott hasn't managed to establish himself in Toronto and hasn't played all that much in Vancouver given injuries - would expect them to target a more established D.

 

CBJ could have traded for Bear out of Carolina given how long he was available.  He seems too much of what they already have vs an established veteran that can really help their young kids take the next step.  

 

They probably need 1 or even 2 other top-4 Ds past Werenski.  Loading up on 3rd pairing Ds is not going to really help develop their younger players.  Last year they tried to trade for McDonagh but he wouldn't waive.

 

 

[Sell.the.team]

not sure why so many are quick to bail on Boeser.  I for one do not think he's a lost cause - although, I suspect there is a good chance he leaves as a UFA given how this team and city has treated him the last few years.

[BigTramFan]

52 minutes ago, Sell.the.team said:

not sure why so many are quick to bail on Boeser.  I for one do not think he's a lost cause - although, I suspect there is a good chance he leaves as a UFA given how this team and city has treated him the last few years.

It's not bailing on Boeser (or Garland). But we do need to reduce our cap hit in time for paying EP40 and Hronek. We also have a need to improve our defense and backup goalie if we wish to make the playoffs and perform well.

 

We have a lot of depth at wing, so trading Boeser is more about reducing cap from an area of strength.

 

I'd say Boeser and Garland are behind Kuz, Beau and Mik on our depth chart, so moving out their cap when we have a bunch of young talent ready to replace them seems like a smart move. 

[Sell.the.team]

3 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

It's not bailing on Boeser (or Garland). But we do need to reduce our cap hit in time for paying EP40 and Hronek. We also have a need to improve our defense and backup goalie if we wish to make the playoffs and perform well.

 

We have a lot of depth at wing, so trading Boeser is more about reducing cap from an area of strength.

 

I'd say Boeser and Garland are behind Kuz, Beau and Mik on our depth chart, so moving out their cap when we have a bunch of young talent ready to replace them seems like a smart move. 

Fair enough, I personally think Boeser and Garland both have higher upside than Mik and Beau but I think we are stuck with Mik.

 

While I like Garland, there is no point in paying $5M to a 4th liner.

[canuck73_3]

17 hours ago, Alflives said:

The buyout is the sure way to handle OEL. It’s iffy for him to come back and play even in a bottom pairing role. If he does that’s great. But if he ends up in the press box then we are stuck. 

No it isn't and him ending up in the press box is delusional, when healthy he is a legit top 4 dman and the numbers backed that up last season.

[canuck73_3]

dbl post

Edited March 30, 2023 by canuck73_3

[BigTramFan]

2 hours ago, Sell.the.team said:

Fair enough, I personally think Boeser and Garland both have higher upside than Mik and Beau but I think we are stuck with Mik.

 

While I like Garland, there is no point in paying $5M to a 4th liner.

Rather than upside, I think which 2 wingers they keep out of Boeser, Garland, Beau and Mik is going to be based on their chemistry with EP and Miller.

 

EP-Kuz is a lock for our first line. Both Beau and Mik have both shown good chemistry with EP-Kuz, so either one is fine.

 

DiGuiseppe-Miller-Boeser has performed a lot better than Miller-Horvat-Garland. May not be a fair comparison because this was with different coaches and the team performing very differently. But I still think Boeser has the advantage over Garland for that 2nd line.

 

If we kept Beau on the top line and moved Mik to the 2nd line with Miller, we don't really know whether they have good chem. But Mik has excellent speed which would be very useful on Miller's wing.

 

This makes me think the following are the 2 most likely options long term:

 

Option A:

Keep Beauvillier and Mikheyev

 

Kuz-EP-Beau

Mik-Miller-young winger

 

Option B:

Keep Mikheyev and Boeser

 

Kuz-EP-Mik

young winger - Miller - Boeser

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think we only really need to move 2 of those 3 big contracts. Peeke would be a home run but not sure how likely that deal would be, but if CBJ want one of Boeser or Garland, take it and run. Garland + Bear makes sense for us and kind of for Columbus. Maybe they'd want a 3rd round pick instead of Bear? I'd even do Garland + 3rd + 4th for Peeke.

 

 I wonder if we revisit Boeser for Marcus Pettersson, maybe we give them Rathbone too? If Boeser is too pricey, give them Beauvillier + Rathbone. Would be a great top 4 steady defenceman on the left. Signing Graves or Gavrikov would be nice but I worry we'll be out-priced, and Pettersson is on a very tasty 4Mish contract.

 

Of course get rid of Myers and use up one of our many mid round picks.

 

We'd need a 3C though, I wonder if we can get Boyd from the Arizona trade or just sign one of the many out there - Kampf, Sundqvist or Suter. My money's on the big young Swede Sundqvist.

 

Mikheyev - Petey - Kuzmenko

Boeser - Miller - Podkolzin

Hoglander - Sundqvist - PDG

Joshua - Aman - Studnicka

 

Pettersson - Hronek

Hughes - Peeke

OEL - Burroughs

 

 

[Alflives]

Add OEL to those three and it’s a successful summer for us. 24 million in cap clears. The Benning stain removed.

[MattWN.]

Peeke is a 25 year old, 6'4 RHD, who is locked into a bargain bin contract for the next 3 years. If they're aim is to move him, it won't be for overpaid scrap wingers like Garland, a guy Vancouver couldn't give away at the deadline. The difference in value between those two players is staggering. 

 

Boeser is another player with negative value, you aren't sniffing a 2nd round pick without retaining money. If Pitts wanted Boeser, they would have had him for peanuts a month ago. 

 

The rights to guys like Dermott and Bear also have very little value, if any. Bear was just moved for a 5th rounder, that's what value teams see in him around the league. He won't be moving the dial in any trade to shed cap space.

[BigTramFan]

2 hours ago, MattWN. said:

Peeke is a 25 year old, 6'4 RHD, who is locked into a bargain bin contract for the next 3 years. If they're aim is to move him, it won't be for overpaid scrap wingers like Garland, a guy Vancouver couldn't give away at the deadline. The difference in value between those two players is staggering. 

 

Boeser is another player with negative value, you aren't sniffing a 2nd round pick without retaining money. If Pitts wanted Boeser, they would have had him for peanuts a month ago. 

 

The rights to guys like Dermott and Bear also have very little value, if any. Bear was just moved for a 5th rounder, that's what value teams see in him around the league. He won't be moving the dial in any trade to shed cap space.

Peeke at -32 this season, Bear at +9

 

Where is your proof that VAN was trying to trade Garland at the TDL?

Edited April 1, 2023 by BigTramFan

[MattWN.]

1 minute ago, BigTramFan said:

Peeke at -32 this season, Bear at +9

 

Where is your proof that VAN was trying to trade Garland at the TDL?

He's playing on the worst team in the league and =/- is a misleading stat to begin with.

Look at any defence for forward trade in the past 10 years and see which way the value sways. 

Add in the contracts, age, size, and the fact Peeke shoots right.. 

You're out to f**king lunch if you think that trade makes any sense for Columbus.

 

Where is your proof they weren't shopping him? What a stupid argument. 

 

 

You know who else is bottom of the plus minus category?

Jordan Kyrou, Drake Batherson, Johnny Gaudreau, Alex Debrincat, Tomas Hertl, Trevor Zegras, and Timo Meier.

They're probably all shit too.

 

[BigTramFan]

16 minutes ago, MattWN. said:

Where is your proof they weren't shopping him? What a stupid argument. 

Stupid argument? I think you're just trolling. You have no proof that VAN were trying to trade Garland, and apparently you are saying they were trying to move him for nothing and couldn't manage it.