[Proposal] VAN - CHI

[MattWN.]

1 minute ago, BPA said:

That’s with Pearson and Poolman included.  There will be a little wiggle room once they are put on LTIR.

 

But yeah, Canucks still need to create cap space and no teams will be doing them any favours.

Still have to be compliant before you can put guys on LTIR.

[BPA]

1 minute ago, MattWN. said:

Still have to be compliant before you can put guys on LTIR.

They can probably paper down some guys like Podz and Dries.

[mll]

7 minutes ago, BPA said:

They can probably paper down some guys like Podz and Dries.

Podkolzin is a 1.775M recall cap hit in LTIR.  In LTIR the bonus cushion is removed so the bonus has to be accounted for in a recall.  But Vancouver can use the above approach and avoid demoting Podkolzin.  

 

14 minutes ago, MattWN. said:

Still have to be compliant before you can put guys on LTIR.

There are 2 different approaches.  This would be the under the cap approach where 1st be cap compliant and then apply LTIR to access that cap space and then complete the roster.  The other approach is to already go above the cap with the LTIR contracts and it's by applying LTIR that they get back to being compliant.  

 

 

[Jester13]

3 hours ago, mll said:

Last year it cost a 2nd round pick to dump Dickinson on Chicago.  Garland could well be more expensive to move.  

 

It's really Vancouver that has to find a way to entice Chicago to make a cap clearing deal with them.  The Canucks are cap strapped and Chicago holds all the cards.  They are just so many teams that are looking to clear cap space and they can make a deal with any team or go to free agency to build their roster.  It's likely going to be expensive to clear cap and deals might end up being pretty lopsided in disfavour of teams looking to clear cap.

 

Garland is a 50pt 3rd-line player whose points mostly come 5v5. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Boeser had 29 goals in 62 games as a rookie.  People like to say he's not a 30 goal scorer, but anyone who understands math knows that if he had played the full 82 games he would have pushed for 40 goals in his very first season.  Same with his 2nd season.  26 goals in 69 games.  Easily a 30-35 goal season if he isn't injured.  Same with 2021, 23 goals in 56 games.

 

Boeser's biggest problem has been staying healthy which has caused him to regress and lose his speed and shot.  Don't know how he will fare next season, but if he were ever to get back to where he was as a rookie, he could become a 40 goal scorer playing with Bedard...

Listen I've been on the Boeser hype train since it started, and I'll defend his rookie season as a 30 goal season for sure. The fact is, he's been deployed favorably his entire career and has done nothing with it, even though he's played with elite talent. Bedard isn't a magician, and McDavid wasn't either for his first couple of years. RNH for example, only blew up this year and that's 8 years after McDavid joined the league. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Listen I've been on the Boeser hype train since it started, and I'll defend his rookie season as a 30 goal season for sure. The fact is, he's been deployed favorably his entire career and has done nothing with it, even though he's played with elite talent. Bedard isn't a magician, and McDavid wasn't either for his first couple of years. RNH for example, only blew up this year and that's 8 years after McDavid joined the league. 

Bedard to Boeser will be as good as Horvat to Baertschi. Book it….  

[mll]

6 hours ago, Jester13 said:

Garland is a 50pt 3rd-line player whose points mostly come 5v5. 

He also makes 5M for another 3 years.  Vancouver doesn't have any leverage.  Every team knows that they want to adjust their team and can see that they have absolutely no cap space - opportunity for those teams to make a lopsided deal.

 

Teams with cap space are going to have their choice of players.  Chicago still in a rebuild and really don't have to make a deal with Vancouver.   Vegas had to pay to move Pacioretty and there was quite a bit of interest there.  Not sure there will be all that much interest for an undersized winger who is not proven in the post-season to show that his smaller stature won't be a limitation.

 

Not sure teams are going to value the production either.  Putting up points in a perceived loose system is not the same as playing the right way where there is accent on defence.  Garbage time production is also not the same as in the heart of the season as pointed out by Benning but others have also made similar comment including Trotz just recently.  

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by mll

[HorvatToBaertschi]

10 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Bedard to Boeser will be as good as Horvat to Baertschi. Book it….  

If it wasn't for the injuries.....

[Jester13]

8 hours ago, mll said:

He also makes 5M for another 3 years.  Vancouver doesn't have any leverage.  Every team knows that they want to adjust their team and can see that they have absolutely no cap space - opportunity for those teams to make a lopsided deal.

 

Teams with cap space are going to have their choice of players.  Chicago still in a rebuild and really don't have to make a deal with Vancouver.   Vegas had to pay to move Pacioretty and there was quite a bit of interest there.  Not sure there will be all that much interest for an undersized winger who is not proven in the post-season to show that his smaller stature won't be a limitation.

 

Not sure teams are going to value the production either.  Putting up points in a perceived loose system is not the same as playing the right way where there is accent on defence.  Garbage time production is also not the same as in the heart of the season as pointed out by Benning but others have also made similar comment including Trotz just recently.  

 

Fair enough, but my comment about Garland was implying that it won't cost as much as the poster thinks it will to move him. Teams aren't that interested this time of year to make a deal like this, but the time will come. I don't think we'll have to add at all to move Garland. We likely won't get a 2nd for him, but I don't see Garland as negative value as some think.

[Seannnp]

22 hours ago, BPA said:

That’s with Pearson and Poolman included.  There will be a little wiggle room once they are put on LTIR.

 

But yeah, Canucks still need to create cap space and no teams will be doing them any favours.

Pearson and Poolman on LTIR. Im confident Myers gets moved at end of September as well. Garland and Beauvillier will both me moved at the deadline next season. Next year we may be chasing the playoffs but its going to be another year tinkering and experimenting where we try to assemble the roster we want to compete for the foreseeable future.

 

Only thing we should be doing in the offseason is looking for a partner for Hughes or Hronek (i prefer to Sign Graves or Gavrikov and draft ASP/Reinbacher) and shedding salary from the current roster. 

 

In 2024-2025

 

Kuzmenko Pettersson Hoglander 

Mikhayev Miller Boeser 

Karlsson Raty Podkolzin

???? Aman Joshua 

 

Hughes Reinbacher/ASP

Gavrikov/Graves Hronek

Petterson Kudraytsev

Burroughs 

[Phil_314]

On 5/11/2023 at 12:54 PM, MattWN. said:

Why would they pay to acquire those guys, when they can pick them up for free on waivers, or be paid to take from cash strapped teams. 

We're 1.6 million dollars over the cap already, nobody is coming to take contracts back without us sending assets with them.

Exactly my reason for proposing the OP; if the bottom feeders don't value Beauvillier or Garland they could easily demand the 1st going their way just to dump their salary (several years ago, Marc Staal in his last season cost his team a high pick to dump, and with Garland and Beau you're talking about more than 1 season, and in a less valuable position on the wing).  

Boeser's actually got upside and we've got no leverage (or cap space) to demand any good return, hence why in the OP we take a minor hit to still land a very good prospect at #19, meet a position of need (RHD) and still be compliant.  If the big RHD prospect Reinbacher was still available then yeah I'd suggest holding onto the pick, but if it's all wingers or guys management doesn't want at #11 I'd rather they move back and make a move like this. 

[MattWN.]

20 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Exactly my reason for proposing the OP; if the bottom feeders don't value Beauvillier or Garland they could easily demand the 1st going their way just to dump their salary (several years ago, Marc Staal in his last season cost his team a high pick to dump, and with Garland and Beau you're talking about more than 1 season, and in a less valuable position on the wing).  

Boeser's actually got upside and we've got no leverage (or cap space) to demand any good return, hence why in the OP we take a minor hit to still land a very good prospect at #19, meet a position of need (RHD) and still be compliant.  If the big RHD prospect Reinbacher was still available then yeah I'd suggest holding onto the pick, but if it's all wingers or guys management doesn't want at #11 I'd rather they move back and make a move like this. 

I'd still rather retain at the deadline with Boes, and pick 11th.

I wan't to stop the haemorrhaging and put an end to mortgaging the future. 

If we move down and miss out on a stud, the fanbase will burn Rogers arena to the f**king ground. 

If we were full of prospects coming down the pipeline, fine. But we're bottom of the league.