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[Report] Canucks to begin extension talks with Edler


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#301 The Big Luongo

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:13 PM

Nope, what I propose is the Canucks trading Edler if he doesn't want to agree to what the Canucks are offering him. Like I said before, I like Edler, just not at 6 mil. I think the Canucks can use that 6 mil and do better whether it through trade or free agency. Edler does alot of things well, defending isn't one of them......For a guy who puts up such high points, why is his +/- so weak? For Six mil, you better be the best all round D on our team, and at this point he isn't. Also giving him 6 Mil would almost make him the highest paid player on the team, is that something the organization is ready to do? You cant give a guy 6 mil and hope he lives up to his potential. If the Canucks package him with Luongo perhaps could yield a huge return and save cap space at the same time, who knows! I think Edler should take 5 at the most if He wants to stay in Vancouver, if not, trade him.



I completely agree.

Edlers plus minus is weak with all those points because he is a liability in his own zone and elite teams can't afford to have guys like that who are also as soft as butter to play high stakes playoff hockey.

It can easily be worked out out that Edler get's traded to a team where he agree's to sign with its happened before. The Canucks can get a huge return if Edler was traded along with Luongo and Raymond and having that great type of a top forward who will be a way more important to the team then Edlers inconsistent play.
Bieksa outscored Edler 5 on 5 his points are not as unreplacable as hensenfan seems to think. I think Connauton deserves a shot to play all season and with the great supporting cast and teaching he will do just fine. From what i have seen this kid has the potential to be the best overall defenseman the canucks have ever had.
If KC had 5on 5 time and PP time with the Sedins i have a good feeling KC would get at least 40 points. KC has more offensive and overall upside then Edler by far its just a matter of time.

Edited by The Big Luongo, 10 October 2012 - 09:16 PM.

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#302 JHansenFan

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:28 PM

"If" KC got that time to play with the Sedin's, and then what? When he wants a contract extension, he suddenly becomes too soft, too weak, too inexperienced, too slow, etc. for us? All I see from you guys is exactly what all bandwagoners do. Oh his contract is up, so he's obviously the worst player in the world, and we should trade him. There are three teams that want Luongo, and it is not an open trade market. Why would Edler want to sign with Florida, when they aren't looking to make the potential splash in the playoffs like the Canucks. Why would Edler want to sign in Toronto... I don't even need to go on here as I am sure this is something we all agree on. Why would Edler want to sign in Chicago... and furthermore how would teams take Luongo's cap hit, Raymond's cap hit, and Edler's proposed 6 million dollars or even 7 on another team. We would have to take back cap dumps perhaps in the like of Mike Komisarek, and more. We wouldn't be getting high valued players in exchange for that package, since most teams have their starters, and aren't just willing to trade with us just because a couple CDC fans think that it would be plausible.

Ask yourself where would a potential destination be that would NEED a starter goalie, had the cap space to sign Edler, not have Luongo nix the deal with his NTC, have Edler want to sign with them, and want a player like Raymond for. You don't understand this isn't NHL 10 where you can package a 1st, 2nd, Ballard, Raymond, Jensen and get any player you want in the league. This has to make sense, and sure it's easy to say these things but where is a realistic location for this to happen. Are we somehow trading with the KHL ?
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#303 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:28 AM

The Sedin's both are getting 6.1 million dollars each year. Since we have no real salary cap number i'd like to propose we use the 70.2 cap number for the point I am about to make. The Sedin's when they resigned in 2009 were given 6.1 million dollars out of a 56.8/56.7 million dollar cap hit. That's nearly 11% of our team, and they very much deserve that. Now the cap hit is 70.2 million dollars, and giving Edler 6 million wouldn't even meet 9% of our total salary. As one of our best defensemen in the offensive zone in most nights, and a good defensemen in our own end I believe he is worth that 8.55% of our cap hit. Why do you think the extra 14 million dollars of the cap hit rising matters? It's because teams are committing more % of their money towards you. If the cap hit was 40 million dollars for each team then committing 6 million would be a massive commitment. The cap hit at this very moment is 70.2 million dollars. I don't understand why canucks fans constantly think that players that we don't want will yield great value from other teams.

Luongo (who i have stopped being a fan of since three years ago) has issues in big games in the playoffs. It's either he shuts the door and lets in nothing, and puts in a goal or he lets in a dozen goals. We have no need for him, as much as MG might want to play it off, but we have Schneider who is our starter. Teams are viewing Luongo (in my opinion) as a good goaltender whose on the decline, and that they have to make massive financial commitments to. Perhaps you are right and if we package him we could get something like Nick Bjustad out of Florida, as well as a proven forward, but with Florida not willing to part with any of those prospects, adding Edler who may or may not have a year left on his contract (depending on how it goes with the lockout ruling) would just be a rather bad move on Florida's part. Edler has the most value to us resigned and as one of contributing core.

Bieksa- 4.6/64.3 million in cap space (0.0715%)
Hamhuis- 4.5/59.4 million in cap space(0.0758%)
Garrison- 4.5/70.2 million in cap space(0.0641%)
Edler(proposed- 6/70.2 million in cap space(0.0855%)

If you really look at the numbers, and when players signed you can see that the difference in the % of the cap space they take up is pretty close to each other. If Edler takes a hometown discount fantastic.... if he takes 6 million.. that's great too he can easily get just under Ryan Suter money out on FA. I'd really like to see some solid statistics. Your +/- is one, but i'd really like you to take this debate in a more factual way, rather then a ... well i think this and this, and if we package him for this and this and what not.


Thank you for taking the time to crunch the numbers as it it probably took you some time. I was actually going more along the lines of actual salary versus % against the cap. I have had this discussion many times about many players. The +/- is a direct sign of his overall defensive play. That is my only concern with Edler and giving him a long term contract with a large salary. Im of the believe that in order to win the cup, you need a very good to great defence to do so. I dont feel Edler really fits that mould but still holds high enough value on the open market to get something in return. If the Canucks can trade him and still find a way to improve the team, this just might be the way to go. My feelings are he will probably resign for reason's you've already mentioned early on in this topic, development within the organization and so on, I just have my doubts about him.

Now, as far as other players who've come up for free agency on the Canucks, I don't always feel the same. I was an advocate for having Luongo re-signed, although I was surprised at the size of the contract. Bieksa, Lappy, Higgens, and Hansen to name a few, I wanted all back. If Edler is willing to take a bit less, then I'm sure something will get done with him as well.
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#304 JHansenFan

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:35 AM

Thank you for taking the time to crunch the numbers as it it probably took you some time. I was actually going more along the lines of actual salary versus % against the cap. I have had this discussion many times about many players. The +/- is a direct sign of his overall defensive play. That is my only concern with Edler and giving him a long term contract with a large salary. Im of the believe that in order to win the cup, you need a very good to great defence to do so. I dont feel Edler really fits that mould but still holds high enough value on the open market to get something in return. If the Canucks can trade him and still find a way to improve the team, this just might be the way to go. My feelings are he will probably resign for reason's you've already mentioned early on in this topic, development within the organization and so on, I just have my doubts about him.

Now, as far as other players who've come up for free agency on the Canucks, I don't always feel the same. I was an advocate for having Luongo re-signed, although I was surprised at the size of the contract. Bieksa, Lappy, Higgens, and Hansen to name a few, I wanted all back. If Edler is willing to take a bit less, then I'm sure something will get done with him as well.


At least this discussion is a more manageable rate. If Edler can constantly come in and improve season after season, like the Sedin's have done for many years now, there will be absolutely no issue. Now about his lack of emotion playing hockey, it doesn't always make the best players. Myself as a hockey player I rarely get mad, and show emotion unless i am actually physically assaulted. Edler I believe will continue to grow as a young defensemen, and it takes many years for most NHL defensemen to hit their prime. Edler isn't even close to that, and I have noticed he is sometimes inconsistent, but I have noticed that every year he continues to work on that aspect. This prior series with the LAK i can disregard, as the whole team played like well.... garbage? and we were missing our best player. That point has been made many times, and if you add that to the fact that we only scored eight times, and Quick was an absolute demigod on the ice we can safely say the series wasn't Edler's or anyone's individual fault. Developing your own players gives them a loyalty to your team, just like I have a loyalty to some of my older coaches that have coached me as i've played hockey. Edler will be a fantastic player, and he has not hit his dominating factor in terms of the defensive zone, but his offensive stats are second to none. You can say their Sedin padded, but I can also say its the chemistry between them, and his deadly cannon of a shot.
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#305 The Big Luongo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:56 AM

At least this discussion is a more manageable rate. If Edler can constantly come in and improve season after season, like the Sedin's have done for many years now, there will be absolutely no issue. Now about his lack of emotion playing hockey, it doesn't always make the best players. Myself as a hockey player I rarely get mad, and show emotion unless i am actually physically assaulted. Edler I believe will continue to grow as a young defensemen, and it takes many years for most NHL defensemen to hit their prime. Edler isn't even close to that, and I have noticed he is sometimes inconsistent, but I have noticed that every year he continues to work on that aspect. This prior series with the LAK i can disregard, as the whole team played like well.... garbage? and we were missing our best player. That point has been made many times, and if you add that to the fact that we only scored eight times, and Quick was an absolute demigod on the ice we can safely say the series wasn't Edler's or anyone's individual fault. Developing your own players gives them a loyalty to your team, just like I have a loyalty to some of my older coaches that have coached me as i've played hockey. Edler will be a fantastic player, and he has not hit his dominating factor in terms of the defensive zone, but his offensive stats are second to none. You can say their Sedin padded, but I can also say its the chemistry between them, and his deadly cannon of a shot.


The Sedins at the same point in their careers were far better all around then Edler and have pretty much always done a great job of keeping the puck out of their own net with the great cycling they do.
As far as the team struggling against LA of course they were they lost as a team. Quicks great play with 5 shot blocking players in front of him made things brutally difficult for us and especially without D Sedin to help crack that defensive wall for the first 2 games but Edler was the worst by far. All his back breaking mistakes made at crucial times were too much considering the rest going agsinst us.

This basically my whole point against Edler staying is the fact when things are getting hard and tough like they do in the playoffs Edler folds under the pressure and doesn't have what it takes to fight through it. We can't go into the playoffs with this type of soft inconsistent play from a high minute playing blueliner.
I guess you forgot about coach AV calling out Edler in the media during the regular season because his brutal inconsistent play?? I guess you must have forgot about that. There's no way in the world his plus minus would be that low playing most of his minutes 5 on 5 with the Sedins who have had great stats in the past. What avout the CBC guys all over Edlers faulty play in the kings series pointing out all his key mistakes that led to costly backbreaking goals against??

Look i am no bandwaggoner i cheer for all the players and especially the ones i feel help the team more then hurt it overall but with Edler so far from what i have seen he hurts it far too often. I have only ever had a problem with Baron, Ohlund, Luongo and Edler. Once Luongo is traded before what season starts 3 of the 4 will be guys who were traded once the management and coaches figured they had to go and i am hoping they identify Edler needing to go as well he has had ample time in the NHL to improve and he really hasn't at all.

Edited by The Big Luongo, 11 October 2012 - 09:02 AM.

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#306 JHansenFan

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:37 AM

In the LAK series your pointing out Edler who you said is the worst player by far. However in the previous playoffs not this one, Edler was a machine. He wrecked havoc on the Chicago Blackhawks, and played extraordinarily well until the Bruins series. However that's not fair to say since the moment we lost Hamhuis, our entire defence was for some reason much worse. That's the point where the collapse started, and I find it fair to believe if we had Hamhuis our entire group would have had a different fate in those playoffs. When pinching, the concept is even if the puck isn't held in take out the man... Edler showed he could do that all throughout the Chicago series, and one of the biggest moments was when he took out Kane in the first game. In the Sedin's sixth season they were considered soft european players who couldn't get it done in the playoffs as well. Funny you said that the Sedin's were better then Edler at the same point in their career. The basis of your entire argument rests on Edler being soft in the playoffs (which isn't true as he did show he can dominate), but then you said the twins at this point in their career were better then Edler. They were also inconsistent players in the playoffs, and now they have grown and evolved into much better players who showed that they can lead Vancouver into the playoffs. I judged this by using the 6th and 7th years of Henrik's career and Edler's, since Vancouver didn't make the playoffs in the 2006 season(unfortunately). Also regard that defencemen take a much longer time to mature then forwards, as defence is a bigger responsibility. You should know this of course since you claim to know that much about hockey.

AV calling Edler out during the regular season? Well i'm sure he called out everyone, but I don't watch every post game interview, so if you have a bunch of youtube clips of this I would be very glad to acknowledge you got me beat in this regard. Again in the Kings series it was the Canucks team as a whole who played bad, and not just one player. I know you love to scape goat, but when the entire team plays bad, which you acknowledged i don't understand why this is pinned on one player. Also about playing constantly 5 on 5.... Henrik scored 33% of his points on the power play. I didn't use Daniel Sedin because he was injured, but those stats also show that he scored 37% of his points on the power play. If you compare the ratio of Even Strength TOI: PP TOI to their Even Strength PTS: PP PTS there is a little something off about the numbers.

Lastly about Edler not improving? Edler's shot totals have risen dramatically showing that he has more confidence in his game, and his points have been trending upwards. However if you use the point projection from 2010-2011 he would have around 52 points in 82 games where as he only had 49 this year, but I think we can all agree 50 points is Edler's offensive peak. Also if you factor in he won't keep a rate of 0.64 PPG up then I have reason to believe he is yet again trending upwards. I'm sure you've heard many coaches say that it's the defensive game that takes work? I personally believe that is the case with Edler, and you can feel free to quote me on it, but when Edler hits his prime 29-32 he will be a very good two way defensemen.
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#307 Snake Doctor

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:03 PM

I'm not really optimistic we can keep Edler but I would be happy if we do. After the huge money given to Sutter and Webber, I'd be amazed if Gillis spends that kind of money on Edler. Edler's agent will be asking alot and has signings to prove he is worth that kind of money. The Sedin's should stay as the highest paid Canucks. They are the leaders on and off the ice.
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#308 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:21 PM

In the LAK series your pointing out Edler who you said is the worst player by far. However in the previous playoffs not this one, Edler was a machine. He wrecked havoc on the Chicago Blackhawks, and played extraordinarily well until the Bruins series. However that's not fair to say since the moment we lost Hamhuis, our entire defence was for some reason much worse. That's the point where the collapse started, and I find it fair to believe if we had Hamhuis our entire group would have had a different fate in those playoffs. When pinching, the concept is even if the puck isn't held in take out the man... Edler showed he could do that all throughout the Chicago series, and one of the biggest moments was when he took out Kane in the first game. In the Sedin's sixth season they were considered soft european players who couldn't get it done in the playoffs as well. Funny you said that the Sedin's were better then Edler at the same point in their career. The basis of your entire argument rests on Edler being soft in the playoffs (which isn't true as he did show he can dominate), but then you said the twins at this point in their career were better then Edler. They were also inconsistent players in the playoffs, and now they have grown and evolved into much better players who showed that they can lead Vancouver into the playoffs. I judged this by using the 6th and 7th years of Henrik's career and Edler's, since Vancouver didn't make the playoffs in the 2006 season(unfortunately). Also regard that defencemen take a much longer time to mature then forwards, as defence is a bigger responsibility. You should know this of course since you claim to know that much about hockey.

AV calling Edler out during the regular season? Well i'm sure he called out everyone, but I don't watch every post game interview, so if you have a bunch of youtube clips of this I would be very glad to acknowledge you got me beat in this regard. Again in the Kings series it was the Canucks team as a whole who played bad, and not just one player. I know you love to scape goat, but when the entire team plays bad, which you acknowledged i don't understand why this is pinned on one player. Also about playing constantly 5 on 5.... Henrik scored 33% of his points on the power play. I didn't use Daniel Sedin because he was injured, but those stats also show that he scored 37% of his points on the power play. If you compare the ratio of Even Strength TOI: PP TOI to their Even Strength PTS: PP PTS there is a little something off about the numbers.

Lastly about Edler not improving? Edler's shot totals have risen dramatically showing that he has more confidence in his game, and his points have been trending upwards. However if you use the point projection from 2010-2011 he would have around 52 points in 82 games where as he only had 49 this year, but I think we can all agree 50 points is Edler's offensive peak. Also if you factor in he won't keep a rate of 0.64 PPG up then I have reason to believe he is yet again trending upwards. I'm sure you've heard many coaches say that it's the defensive game that takes work? I personally believe that is the case with Edler, and you can feel free to quote me on it, but when Edler hits his prime 29-32 he will be a very good two way defensemen.


I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like edler. Comparing his progression to the Sedins is a difficult one however, because I believe that not only are the Sedins the most skilled players in the league, they are some of the most driven to succeed as well. I look at Edler's character as a player and as an individulal, and am not so sure he can progress the same way. I agree that it does take Defenceman longer to develop, so maybe Edler has another level in his development to achieve. I for one am very happy with what he brings on the offensive side of the ice, but sometimes am left shaking my head at other aspects of his game. Holding the puck in at the blue line, being caught flat footed, and weak to clear the man infront of the net. I will say though, he blocks shots well and is a decent penalty killer, which is why I don't understand why he's weak 5 on 5 alot of the time. Edler is head scratcher type of player in my mind, LOL!!!!

I hope the Canucks can re-sign Edler at decent cap hit. I figure something can be done when the new CBA is figured out. Something that maybe front loads some money but keeps the Cap hit low. My worry is his agent is trying to hit a Home run and we'll lose a budding Norris calibur D, if infact that is what he is. If not, I hope the Canucks can land something of value for him in a trade.
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#309 RonMexico

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:42 PM

Paying 6 mil plus per season for a player with holes in his game and is allegedly developing is a poor idea. There is no such thing as an exponential growth curve for athletes. You don't just keep getting better and better. Edler appears to have tapped out early before his alleged prime. He just won't keep improving by leaps and bounds. Maybe if he moved to another team or another coaching system was implemented, he may improve. Perhaps this coaching staff doesn't even use him effectively but there is slim chance of that. See Edler for what he is, a solid defenseman not worth much more than what he is currently making. The funds could be better spent elsewhere if the cost is too high.
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#310 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:49 PM

Paying 6 mil plus per season for a player with holes in his game and is allegedly developing is a poor idea. There is no such thing as an exponential growth curve for athletes. You don't just keep getting better and better. Edler appears to have tapped out early before his alleged prime. He just won't keep improving by leaps and bounds. Maybe if he moved to another team or another coaching system was implemented, he may improve. Perhaps this coaching staff doesn't even use him effectively but there is slim chance of that. See Edler for what he is, a solid defenseman not worth much more than what he is currently making. The funds could be better spent elsewhere if the cost is too high.


I figure that if his agent is trying to hit a homerun, moving him will happen.
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#311 JHansenFan

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:49 PM

Lets start with saying, I was not the one who compared him to the Sedin's. I was just using facts to prove that even when comparing him to the Sedin's their development is pretty much around the same. There is a term as growth in athletes, and we can see that with Kesler, Sedins, Schneider, Tanev (hopefully), Bieksa, and Edler. I agree you don't just get better every season, and you do tap out that potential, but Edler has not tapped out his defensive potential. All i said was he had tapped out his offensive potential, and was still developing how to work on his game in his own zone. 40+ points is considered a very good season for a defensemen, so you can't really expect Edler to be Karlsson. Every player can work on something, and improve on something year in year out, or else why would the NHL become such a more faster intense league, where collisions happen at much higher speeds then lets say twenty years ago. In no way am i proposing that we sign Edler to a 12 year deal, but the cap hit of 6 million seems very fair, if you look at the percentage of the cap it would spend on him. We technically committed more of our cap space to Hamhuis, then Garrisson since the cap ceiling was a different time when they were both signed. If the cap ceiling was 100 million dollars then a 6 million dollar contract would not seem that much. I will straight up say it and admit it Edler is not Shea Weber. I hope he develops into a player like Lidstrom, or Weber but at this point he is not. Weber gets paid a much higher salary then Edler, and the only reason it looks manageable is because of the way the deal is structured. You can say that Edler uses the Sedin's as much as you want, but the way that i see it just playing with the Sedin's does not make you a superstar. Ask Taylor Pyatt, or Steve Bernier.
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#312 eretz canucks

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:31 PM

What are the alternatives to Edler?
I think we should resign him because if we don't who will run our PP? Who can hold down that 3rd spot on D?
He had a lot of time left in the NHL, players peak 28-32 usually so he has time.
We would need a great return to make up for loss of Edler
With only 1 yr left on the contract what can we get for him? For him and Luongo?
??? Riddle me that? Thoughts?
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#313 RonMexico

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:50 PM

I don't understand why anyone thinks Edler will learn to be a better defensive defensemen than he already is. The guy has been playing hockey, and likely defense, for 20 years. It's not like all of a sudden when one hits a certain age a light goes on and it all comes together. He has played in the league for 5 years. If he hasn't learned the ins and outs of defense, in basically the same system that has been here since he arrived, then he isn't going to.
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#314 JHansenFan

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:04 PM

I don't understand why anyone thinks Edler will learn to be a better defensive defensemen than he already is. The guy has been playing hockey, and likely defense, for 20 years. It's not like all of a sudden when one hits a certain age a light goes on and it all comes together. He has played in the league for 5 years. If he hasn't learned the ins and outs of defense, in basically the same system that has been here since he arrived, then he isn't going to.


I'm not sure if you've ever played hockey for a long period of time, but personally I find every time I play a step up for example bantam to midget and so forth it gets a little harder to play defence. We're talking about the best league in the world, and it's not like just because you played hockey for 8 years then it means you know how to play defence. Now you might not understand, but players do develop. It took the Sedin's 7-8 years to reach the dominant level they are today. Edler may not have a twin brother, but just like the Sedin's and Kesler it takes time to develop skills in the NHL. If you look at Kesler it took him 6-7 years to reach the dominant two way centre he is today, and forward is widely regarded as the easiest position to play in terms of the NHL. Every player takes time to develops and usually hits their prime at the end late stages of their twenties, and that is exactly why I take what you say as a grain of salt. If you want another example you can look at Duncan Keith who had one monster year when the hawks were stacked, but otherwise follows the pattern of learning to become a better defensemen all around. As the old saying goes practice makes perfect, and I never said a light would go on, it would require him to actually work on his game which he does every year.
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#315 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:39 PM

I'm not sure if you've ever played hockey for a long period of time, but personally I find every time I play a step up for example bantam to midget and so forth it gets a little harder to play defence. We're talking about the best league in the world, and it's not like just because you played hockey for 8 years then it means you know how to play defence. Now you might not understand, but players do develop. It took the Sedin's 7-8 years to reach the dominant level they are today. Edler may not have a twin brother, but just like the Sedin's and Kesler it takes time to develop skills in the NHL. If you look at Kesler it took him 6-7 years to reach the dominant two way centre he is today, and forward is widely regarded as the easiest position to play in terms of the NHL. Every player takes time to develops and usually hits their prime at the end late stages of their twenties, and that is exactly why I take what you say as a grain of salt. If you want another example you can look at Duncan Keith who had one monster year when the hawks were stacked, but otherwise follows the pattern of learning to become a better defensemen all around. As the old saying goes practice makes perfect, and I never said a light would go on, it would require him to actually work on his game which he does every year.


I agreed with much of what you say here. Im not completly sold on Duncan Keith LOL, I dont really think he's that great.

I always had a feeling that the Sedins had another level in them. I told a friend of mone years ago "if the Sedins became elite level players, the Canucks would win the Stanley cup. Almost happend as we all know. I don't have that same feeling with Edler as I did the Sedin's. I hope I'm wrong and he achieves greatness, it would be pretty awesome.

I noticed you have a quote from your's truely underneath your sig.....Any reason why? Doesn't seem like anything that stupid. Just think we need more grit on the back end.
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#316 JHansenFan

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:52 PM

I agreed with much of what you say here. Im not completly sold on Duncan Keith LOL, I dont really think he's that great.

I always had a feeling that the Sedins had another level in them. I told a friend of mone years ago "if the Sedins became elite level players, the Canucks would win the Stanley cup. Almost happend as we all know. I don't have that same feeling with Edler as I did the Sedin's. I hope I'm wrong and he achieves greatness, it would be pretty awesome.

I noticed you have a quote from your's truely underneath your sig.....Any reason why? Doesn't seem like anything that stupid. Just think we need more grit on the back end.


When we were constantly beat by Chicago, our problem was not being able to move the puck out of our zone. When we lost against Boston it was because we didn't have enough grit, however I am more convinced it was because we lost Hamhuis. Grit is important, but it is never more important then skill. Edler will continue to develop, and when he hits his prime I think that we all will be able to see how dominant he is at his game. He's still considered a young defensemen, and with all young players it takes time to develop all aspects of their game. Coaches have said that they can teach any player to play defence, but teaching them how to score and put up points is impossible. I quoted that, because of how stupid it sounds, that we would sacrifice our puck movers for physicality, when our defensemen our capable of doing both. Seriously your sick of getting a good first pass out of our zone?
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#317 The Big Luongo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:03 PM

In the LAK series your pointing out Edler who you said is the worst player by far. However in the previous playoffs not this one, Edler was a machine. He wrecked havoc on the Chicago Blackhawks, and played extraordinarily well until the Bruins series. However that's not fair to say since the moment we lost Hamhuis, our entire defence was for some reason much worse. That's the point where the collapse started, and I find it fair to believe if we had Hamhuis our entire group would have had a different fate in those playoffs. When pinching, the concept is even if the puck isn't held in take out the man... Edler showed he could do that all throughout the Chicago series, and one of the biggest moments was when he took out Kane in the first game. In the Sedin's sixth season they were considered soft european players who couldn't get it done in the playoffs as well. Funny you said that the Sedin's were better then Edler at the same point in their career. The basis of your entire argument rests on Edler being soft in the playoffs (which isn't true as he did show he can dominate), but then you said the twins at this point in their career were better then Edler. They were also inconsistent players in the playoffs, and now they have grown and evolved into much better players who showed that they can lead Vancouver into the playoffs. I judged this by using the 6th and 7th years of Henrik's career and Edler's, since Vancouver didn't make the playoffs in the 2006 season(unfortunately). Also regard that defencemen take a much longer time to mature then forwards, as defence is a bigger responsibility. You should know this of course since you claim to know that much about hockey.

AV calling Edler out during the regular season? Well i'm sure he called out everyone, but I don't watch every post game interview, so if you have a bunch of youtube clips of this I would be very glad to acknowledge you got me beat in this regard. Again in the Kings series it was the Canucks team as a whole who played bad, and not just one player. I know you love to scape goat, but when the entire team plays bad, which you acknowledged i don't understand why this is pinned on one player. Also about playing constantly 5 on 5.... Henrik scored 33% of his points on the power play. I didn't use Daniel Sedin because he was injured, but those stats also show that he scored 37% of his points on the power play. If you compare the ratio of Even Strength TOI: PP TOI to their Even Strength PTS: PP PTS there is a little something off about the numbers.

Lastly about Edler not improving? Edler's shot totals have risen dramatically showing that he has more confidence in his game, and his points have been trending upwards. However if you use the point projection from 2010-2011 he would have around 52 points in 82 games where as he only had 49 this year, but I think we can all agree 50 points is Edler's offensive peak. Also if you factor in he won't keep a rate of 0.64 PPG up then I have reason to believe he is yet again trending upwards. I'm sure you've heard many coaches say that it's the defensive game that takes work? I personally believe that is the case with Edler, and you can feel free to quote me on it, but when Edler hits his prime 29-32 he will be a very good two way defensemen.


Edler has hardly ever been a machine unless you mean a lost turnover machine. Edler has his good plays there's no doubt about that but the odd hilight goal with the Sedins setting him up, hard hit once in a while and rare hard shot don't make him as good as you make him out to be if he's lost positionally, turning over pucks, a no show in battle and getting caught up ice all the time costing us tons of goals. Again stats man check out that bad plus minus.
He has the stats and the odd hard hit but there should be much more then that at his stage in his career and it's not happening.
Watch the game closer instead of the stat summeries you may notice more that way.

The fact that Edler's stats are Sedin boosted like A Carter's and he has no heart and is not to good defensively would have me agreeing with the guy above and Edler shouldn't be earning much more then he is now besides a maybe a 10% increase.

Edited by The Big Luongo, 11 October 2012 - 10:09 PM.

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#318 JHansenFan

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:20 PM

The fact that Edler's stats are Sedin boosted like A Carter's and he has no heart and is not to good defensively would have me agreeing with the guy above and Edler shouldn't be earning much more then he is now besides a maybe a 10% increase.


We have argued about your first point for over a couple pages now. I think it's clear where we both stand, and I would love to see physical evidence of it rather then... oh if you watch this eventually you'll see this. I agree Edler has his defensive issues, but I also see a marvellous penalty killer, and a very good offensive defensemen.

Lets look at Mark Streit for example. The guy is an offensive defensemen, in every sense of the word. A 10% increase from Edler's 3.5 million dollars would be a 3.85 salary. Streit is a horrendous I believe -27 in terms of +/- in which you like that statistic so much, and your suggesting Edler gets paid lower then him? Streit is 33 and completely tapped out in terms of potential, whereas Edler is a young defensemen who has maxed out his offensive potential, but still has a lot to learn in the defensive end of the ice. I have already proved that most defensemen are around this stage in development, and just like the Sedin's they were not effective at all in the playoffs in the 06-07 season. I don't know where you are getting your comparisons for this, but who are you comparing Edler to? I am also sure that playing plenty of minutes on the Penalty Kill affects his +/-, and that could factor in at his even +/-. A even +/- isn't horrendous, but if you got a statistic where it shows Edler played 85% or something insane like that of his shifts in the offensive zone on the power play with the Sedin's you would have me cleanly beat. Until then all i can see is that Edler is part of a good successful top PP unit, and I don't understand why you would break that up.
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#319 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:05 AM

When we were constantly beat by Chicago, our problem was not being able to move the puck out of our zone. When we lost against Boston it was because we didn't have enough grit, however I am more convinced it was because we lost Hamhuis. Grit is important, but it is never more important then skill. Edler will continue to develop, and when he hits his prime I think that we all will be able to see how dominant he is at his game. He's still considered a young defensemen, and with all young players it takes time to develop all aspects of their game. Coaches have said that they can teach any player to play defence, but teaching them how to score and put up points is impossible. I quoted that, because of how stupid it sounds, that we would sacrifice our puck movers for physicality, when our defensemen our capable of doing both. Seriously your sick of getting a good first pass out of our zone?


You took that quote the wrong way. The Canucks really dont have a blend of both gritty stay at home types as well as the puck movers. I feel that great teams need a mixture to succeed. Look at the playoffs and how the Canucks are fore checked to death and the minimal amount of hits the Canuck D lay out.
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#320 JHansenFan

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:31 AM

You took that quote the wrong way. The Canucks really dont have a blend of both gritty stay at home types as well as the puck movers. I feel that great teams need a mixture to succeed. Look at the playoffs and how the Canucks are fore checked to death and the minimal amount of hits the Canuck D lay out.


Well I would suggest you explain what you mean with what you say. However if the defence group can move the puck out, they won't get forechecked. The Canucks have a strong group of players who can move the puck out, and funny thing is if you get forechecked chances are your not going to be making hits, but your taking hits. This is the bottom line. If we have an effective puck moving group, then the puck will get out without a problem. You don't need to grind the puck up along the boards, but you can simply move it up. Edler/Bieksa/Hamhuis/Tanev/Ballard can all do that. Garrison hopefully can, but that is why we need to retain Edler. If you really want to compare pay cheques. Compare Ballard with Edler, and what "The Big Luongo" proposed of paying Edler 3.85million dollars. Seriously guys Edler deserves a lot more.
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#321 RonMexico

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:52 AM

What team can afford to pay a 2nd pairing defenseman more than the guys in front of him and the team's elite forwards? He is allegedly still developing a defensive game that has been preached to him for 5 years by the same coaching staff and still can't fully figure it out. It's poor money management to retain him for more than he is worth to the team. If his perceived value around the league is the same as jhansenfan believes, we should have no problem moving him anyways. Oh wait, he is worth a 6-7 mil per year extension but not worth a 2nd line forward in a trade.

Edited by RonMexico, 12 October 2012 - 11:58 AM.

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#322 canucks_dynasty

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:37 AM

I think Edler is probably asking for 5.5-6M on a long contract but MG isn't about to offer that much. My guess is that Edler will be traded.

To whom...who knows...a team that wants D men like Philly and Detroit.

Meh...

To PHI: Edler for B. Schenn + L. Schenn
To DET: Edler for Smith + Jurco + 1st
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#323 JHansenFan

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:06 PM

Edler is not worth the Schenn brothers, and Detroit loves Smith. The point is that Edler is a UFA if the lockout burns up a year of his contract. Lets put it in another sense, since you don't understand the value of Edler at this moment. Would you trade Ryan Kesler +Nicklas Jensen + 2nd for Tobias Enstrom if he didn't have a contract, and had never played for your team? Edler is worth 6 million dollars, just because he has that developed offensive game, and his defensive game though lacking is not horrendous like someone like Mark Streit. You are blowing Edler's defensive game as terrible, but he plays the PK. How bad can he be on defence if he plays PK minutes on the President's trophy winning team. He plays all situations. That is why he's worth 6 million dollars.
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#324 canucks_dynasty

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:26 PM

For Enstrom? THE TOBIAS ENSTROM??? DEAL!!!!!!!
:lol:

I like Edler...but I don't think he's gonna fit in under the Canucks structured salary.
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#325 L'Orange

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:35 PM

Actually it's

After season's end (if there is one) in July.

To Nashville: Edler (after signing him for $5 M), Booth or Raymond, Ballard, :lol: and 2 first round draft picks 2013

To Van: Shea Weber. Never got his NMC or NTC signed. Poile elected not to. Canucks would welcome the contract and would sign both clauses.


:bigblush: This seems to be the requisite face for every Weber to Vancouver thread. Therefore I include it.

Edited by Canuck-a-nuck, 12 October 2012 - 01:38 PM.

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#326 RonMexico

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:27 PM

You know, you can make deals that involve subjects that need to be removed, such as player needs to agree to an extension with the new team, before the deal can be processed. However, the only option you seem to have is to sign him to a bloated deal that he will likely never live up to. In the process you render him essentially untradeable since he will be overpaid. This team doesn't need another albatross contract like Luongo's.
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#327 RonMexico

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:36 PM

Well in an unfortunate turn of events, Edler has a bulging disc in his back. Now he won't be worth anything in a trade and certainly won't be worth a long term, high paying extension. 26 years old and more back problems. Even when he is available to play, he's one awkward hit, given or taken, away from being out again.

Edited by RonMexico, 12 October 2012 - 05:37 PM.

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#328 JHansenFan

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:24 PM

Well in an unfortunate turn of events, Edler has a bulging disc in his back. Now he won't be worth anything in a trade and certainly won't be worth a long term, high paying extension. 26 years old and more back problems. Even when he is available to play, he's one awkward hit, given or taken, away from being out again.


Well fortunately the majority of my arguments were made before this news was made open to the public. Unless you can claim that you know someone in Canucks management directly, and they gave you this information before hand... then you can't say that Edler's injury prone. When there are clauses in deals, they usually take down the value if teams have to negotiate with the player before the deal even goes through. You can recover from injuries, or else Daniel Sedin is worthless since he has a broken foot, Kesler should be traded for a 3rd round pick. We should have given up a first round pick to get rid of Salo, and Hamhuis should be waived, since you know he was injured in the Boston vs Vancouver final.
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#329 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:32 PM

Well in an unfortunate turn of events, Edler has a bulging disc in his back. Now he won't be worth anything in a trade and certainly won't be worth a long term, high paying extension. 26 years old and more back problems. Even when he is available to play, he's one awkward hit, given or taken, away from being out again.


Where did you here this?
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#330 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:36 PM

Well, If Edler is seriously hurt, I'm sure he wouldn't be kicking field goals after the Lions game on Saturday night. It's proabbly a minor thing hopefully. I dont like the sound of buldging disc though.
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