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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#3481 The Bookie

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:49 PM

How do so many of you have so much time or care so much to write out these novels of posts?

And I really hate that mentality, "NBA is boring, MLB sucks, etc", as if being Canadain you can only like hockey. I've actually really enjoyed the NBA season so far, plus there's the gratest league on Earth, the NFL, and a number of MMA orgs (UFC, Bellator, etc).


It's the craziest thing, back in October all of a sudden found I had a bunch of spare time on my hands! So anyways, what was that you were saying about hating people's opinions?
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#3482 poetica

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:28 PM

I do.

My post was aimed at those who disagreed with Hamrlik's comments the other day - that he was being selfish and was damaging the Union's position.
Yet here we have many players who are playing for other leagues - to me that's the same thing.


How is speaking out in a way that could weaken your union's bargaining position for all of the players the same as playing in another league to mitigate your personal financial and physical losses during the lockout?

My question for Hamrlik and Neuvirth would be the same as I'm sure some of the other players had, namely did you try talking to your union or the players on the bargaining committee about what's going on and your concerns, or did you just complain to the press? They are certainly entitled to their opinions, but publicly offering a dissenting opinion while never trying to actually do anything with it accomplishes nothing other than providing ammunition to be used against the union.

Everyone's got an opinion, it's action that's needed to get the deal done.

Edited by poetica, 27 November 2012 - 02:28 PM.

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Every single one of them.

Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#3483 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:46 PM

I think it's time to extend this thread to part 2. *looks at VC*.
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Credit to -Vintage Canuck-


#3484 J.R.

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:00 PM

I do.

My post was aimed at those who disagreed with Hamrlik's comments the other day - that he was being selfish and was damaging the Union's position.
Yet here we have many players who are playing for other leagues - to me that's the same thing.


Nope. Still thinking you're missing it.
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#3485 Wheels22

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

I was watching the new "Match Game" on TV.. and the sentence was: "Betty wasn't sure it was a good idea marrying a hockey player. At their wedding, instead of throwing rice, his teammates through ______ ."

Most of the people on the panel answered with "pucks".. except for one who answered with "another hockey season over a useless labor dispute."

So good
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#3486 poetica

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:52 PM

NHL lockout: 'Ass mode' costs mediator assigned to dispute

At least one form of "ass mode" has been disengaged in the NHL lockout.

Shortly after announcing Guy Serota as one of the federal mediators assigned to the dispute between the league and NHLPA, mediation service director George Cohen took him off the case. The reason: what Cohen called an "allegedly hacked" Twitter account attached to Serota's name.

“Accordingly, in order to immediately dispel any cloud on the mediation process, and without regard to the merits of the allegations, I have determined to take immediate action, namely to remove Commissioner Serota from this assignment," Cohen wrote.

From that account, which was deleted shortly after Twitter-at-large discovered it, @GuySerota made hundreds of tweets, stretching back months, that focused largely on bizarre, ultimately harmless interactions with celebrities, vulgar jokes and references to "The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson."

One of the Ferguson references came via a photograph of a shirt with the words "ass mode" across the chest. That's the tweet that caught fire—which is understandable, because it's hilarious.

In an email to ESPN's Pierre LeBrun, Serota reinforced his position: His account was hacked. That, again, is highly unlikely, because the goofy tweets started months ago, then were deleted upon Cohen's initial announcement. At first, the account was just renamed, but anyone following it still had access. Then, it was deleted. Finally, it was reactivated as @GuySerota—almost certainly by someone who'd already caught on to how hilarious the whole situation had already become.

Calls to a phone number belonging to Serota, according to public records, were not returned.

Serota, according to a LinkedIn page apparently belonging to him, has worked as a federal mediator for more than 15 years. He's also the chairman of the municipal planning committee for Penndel, Pa., in suburban Philadelphia.

Early indications are that Serota didn't lose his job, which is good—his tweets were good-natured. Just ... weird. If nothing else, he deserves some credit for bringing levity to a work stoppage that has done little beyond alienate fans who love the NHL and annoy the media who cover it.

So, basically, "ass mode."


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#3487 Shift-4

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:56 PM

:lol:

well if it works for Jeff O'Neill..............
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#3488 poetica

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:00 PM

NHL lockout: Brad Richards thinks owners' tactics are 'a crock'—and he's not alone

NEW YORK—Brad Richards is the new face of a menswear line designed to be worn untucked. The New York Rangers center would very much like to get back to wearing a different untucked shirt, but he's less than optimistic that the arrival of federal mediators to NHL lockout negotiations will get him back in a hockey jersey anytime soon.

"I still don't think, if (the NHL owners') last quote is 'great offer, but you need to make another and we're not budging,' I don't know what a mediator is going to be able to do," Richards said on Tuesday at the press event to announce UNTUCKit shirts, his new endorsement.
Brad Richards is spending the NHL lockout productively, including by organizing a charity game, but that doesn't mean he wants it to end any less. (AP Photo)

"A mediator's not an arbitrator. There has to be a negotiation. There hasn't been. Them saying they came from 43 percent (in the league's initial offer) up to 50 is the biggest crock I've ever heard. We were never at 43 percent. No one's ever played at 43 percent. If you go on any benchmark of what negotiation should be, we were at 57 (percent of hockey-related revenue) and we agreed to go down.

"I still don't know what they think negotiation is, and none of us really do."

That is the crux of the problem in resolving the labor dispute: the players do not feel like the owners are really negotiating because they believe the NHL's goal has been a 50-50 split of revenues all along, while the league points to the distance between its initial offer and its last one, and claims it can go no further. Last Wednesday, the players put a proposal on the table that left the sides only $182 million apart on the core economic issue, and the league rejected it two hours later.

The NHLPA went into that session hopeful that its offer would lead to a deal. The fact that the NHL came back with an outright rejection, rather than an attempt to negotiate, sent a clear message.

"We made that offer because there were a lot of players that pushed to make some kind of offer that would show them we want to negotiate," Richards said. "We thought that it would happen. When it doesn't, it really brings into question what is this all about? Do you want a negotiation? If it's take it or leave it, it's not going to work that way. It might have united the players even more toward that stance that we just want to see some kind of give on something. There's nothing, and they even went backward on some issues."

On Saturday, Richards was in Atlantic City to take part in Operation Hat Trick, a benefit game for victims of Hurricane Sandy that he helped organize. While there, he found agreement on that viewpoint with his fellow players, including Vezina Trophy-winning teammate Henrik Lundqvist and All-Star wingers James Neal and Scott Hartnell.

"Everybody I talk to, the pulse is we're very together," Richards said. "We're all asking real questions because we want to know where it's going. We're scared for the game. That's the biggest thing. Where's the game going to be if this keeps going? ... Right now, it's take it or leave it, and it's a deal that makes no sense for the future of the league."

Not all 700-plus union members agree, of course, as was most prominently displayed in veteran defenseman Roman Hamrlik's comments calling for a vote and a swift resolution. While Richards believes the NHLPA should not buckle, he did voice his respect for Hamrlik's right to speak his mind.

One question that cannot be answered, though, is how many of the NHL's 30 owners are in favor of continuing the lockout. If there is dissent among ownership ranks, it has been silenced by the threat of million-dollar fines from the league, and knowledge that Sixth Avenue has a long memory and the power to withhold signature events such as the Winter Classic, All-Star Games, and drafts.

"I'd encourage everybody that cares for the NHL and the game of hockey to speak up," Richards said. "That's what we need. Players are allowed to talk to Don (Fehr) on any issue and we can talk publicly whenever we want. We need a little push from the other side, too, if they really care about hockey, because it's going down the wrong road."

While the NHL and NHLPA careen toward doom together, the union does still have the option of decertification, but it does not sound like that is something that will happen quickly.

"Everybody knows it's been discussed," Richards said. "There's so many details that, as players, we've got to learn about, and that takes time. The one thing our leadership has done is, we're informed every step of the way, and we know everything before anything is done. Just because it's a popular word right now, it doesn't mean we're absolutely doing it. We want to make sure everybody knows what it entails -- the risks, the pros and cons, all that stuff. It's not just 'let's do this, and everything's gonna be great.' There's a lot more details."

For now, nothing is great, but Richards does not want to make plans to play overseas "until someone tells me there's no NHL this year." He said that he will re-evaluate his options at the turn of the year.

The clock is ticking on that, and the season as a whole.

Note: Emphasis is mine.
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Go, Canucks, Go!
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Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#3489 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:39 PM

How do so many of you have so much time or care so much to write out these novels of posts?

And I really hate that mentality, "NBA is boring, MLB sucks, etc", as if being Canadain you can only like hockey. I've actually really enjoyed the NBA season so far, plus there's the gratest league on Earth, the NFL, and a number of MMA orgs (UFC, Bellator, etc).


I don't think as canadian you are just restricted to Hockey, you can watch whatever you like. I just find alot of other sports fail to entertain me like Hockey does.

I went to a bunch of Grizzlies games and really enjoyed it, but I don't get why people say basketball is so boring. I can understand if you don't like it, but basketball clearly has the most plays and the highest excitement value per play (dunks, tough shots, breakouts, crazy passes, one on one situations, etc.) compared to other sports. Hockey has lots of speed but there aren't always big hits, saves, scoring chances, breakaways, etc. as the puck can get stuck in corners or have lots of play in the neutral zone where there is little to no chance of a goal being scored.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely prefer hockey and don't even really like to watch basketball on TV all that much, but basketball is made for more exciting environment.


Yeah if we had the Grizzlies that would be different, I would actually like to go attend games and see it all live for myself.

You make a great on Basketball bringing the most plays and action and things, but to me the reason it isn't as entertaining as hockey (Or even Football which I don't mind watching) is that while there are alot of dunks and baskets and things, there not all as important as a touchdown or interception in football, or a goal or big save in Hockey, you know what I mean? Just because it happens so often, it makes it less important to me as a casual fan (unless I have an association with that team), so it just takes away from the entertainment of those plays.

Man... dissecting the entertainment value of other sports really makes me miss canucks hockey :(

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 27 November 2012 - 04:40 PM.

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#3490 Heretic

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:40 PM

Nope. Still thinking you're missing it.


Nope. You're either thinking wrong or not thinking at all.

What solidarity are you referring to? I'm referring to the one insomuch as it applies to unions.

Showing your solidarity in a union means you stick with that union through thick and thin.
In other words, when on strike or locked out - you participate in union activities.
You don't stab your brothers in the back and leave them while you go work somewhere else - like the competition.
The union is only as strong as it's members - if people leave and work elsewhere - it means they are no longer showing their solidarity for the union and their brothers.

Do you get it now?

Have you ever been in a union?
Have you ever help formed one?
Have you ever been on strike?
Have you ever been locked out?

I can answer yes to all of the above. So not only do I know what it means to be solidarity in a union, I also know what it feels like to have people supporting you and attacking you.

Edited by Heretic, 27 November 2012 - 06:09 PM.

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#3491 poetica

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:44 PM

The NHL's rising share: When is enough enough?

"Millionaires against billionaires."

You've likely heard the expression countless times during the NHL lockout, and it's part of the perception problem that happens for a league when it engages in prolonged, season-altering spats over a $2- or $3-billion-dollar-a-year pie.

From the fan base, it incites anger, frustration and, more than all, apathy.

Let's go back though, for a closer look at why we're here. As we all know, coming out of the 2004-05 lockout, the general consensus was that the league had won.

The union was crushed, its leadership ousted, players had caved on the (then very low) salary cap and salaries were about to take a huge nosedive.

They did. As it turned out, however, many of those changes were temporary.

But the reason for that wasn't necessarily the players "winning." The main reason was league revenues, to the surprise of most, exploded, with the Canadian dollar providing roughly 12.5 per cent of that growth and the rest coming from rising ticket prices, sponsorships, TV deals and demand for NHL hockey.

And the way the last collective bargaining agreement was written, when revenues went up, everyone won.

Consider this: While the average player salary jumped from $1.8-million to about $2.4-million (about 33 per cent) between 2003 and 2012, the owners' share went up from $500-million (as per the league's own Levitt Report) to $1.42-billion in those nine years (185 per cent).

That was the correction the league was looking for, even if it came with players getting a whole lot more than expected.

Posted Image

The above graph contains some estimates where specific data isn't available, but for the most part, that's a very accurate representation of how the owner and player shares have grown over time (and project to in the future).

For future seasons, I've used the owners' latest proposal as a basis and projected revenue loss this season (12 per cent) and minimal growth over the next four years after the lockout (2.5 per cent in 2013-14 followed by 5 per cent a season).

You can also see what the players have proposed will happen with their share (in orange), which is absurdly similar to what ownership has on the table.

Now, the two shares will meet for the first time in Year 3 or 4 of these proposals, putting them at 50-50 presumably until the next CBA comes into effect.

And, once again, if revenues rise rapidly, both sides will make out very well here.

This isn't meant to be an indictment of either side's position here, but merely a presentation of what this fight is over and to ask the question of whether or not this new correction will fix things for good.

What's indisputable is that the owners have enjoyed a far, far greater share of revenues than in the Dead Puck Era, and player salary growth has been relatively moderated (compared to 2004 and earlier) in light of how quickly the business has grown.

I think the vast majority of hockey fans and pundits would agree that that correction during the last lockout was likely needed, as player salaries very much were taking over the game.

Now? That argument is much less definite. The proposal the players have on the table would most likely flatten their share for four years until the owners' caught up to it, from which point they would be identical going forward.

So, yes, the perception may be that the players side won handily the last time when it appeared the owners got their way. That's fair enough, especially considering some of the mammoth contracts out there.

But the concerns you hear now coming out of the NHLPA are over what that red line looks like.

It's tilting up and up.

Is this where it stops? Or will another correction be needed again in six or seven years?

For the sake of the fans and the league, let's hope they get it right this time. At some point, enough is enough.

Note: Bold emphasis is mine.
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Go, Canucks, Go!
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Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(

#3492 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:47 PM

I also no what it feels like to have people supporting you and attacking you.


Yeah me too.

But I do think people can still show some solidarity even if they go play somewhere else temporarily, aslong as they're are actively participating in PA discussion, proposals, news, talks, exc.

They aren't showing as much solidarity as people who stay here and attend every meeting and are with the PA non-stop but then again these are important years of alot of players career's that they will never get back.

So I understand both sides of it.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 27 November 2012 - 05:48 PM.

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#3493 Heretic

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:09 PM

Yeah me too.

But I do think people can still show some solidarity even if they go play somewhere else temporarily, aslong as they're are actively participating in PA discussion, proposals, news, talks, exc.

They aren't showing as much solidarity as people who stay here and attend every meeting and are with the PA non-stop but then again these are important years of alot of players career's that they will never get back.

So I understand both sides of it.


I can agree with that.

Sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do.

Likewise, I can understand the frustration guys like Hamrlik have as well.
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#3494 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:17 PM

I can agree with that.

Sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do.

Likewise, I can understand the frustration guys like Hamrlik have as well.


Yeah me too.

I mean if there's a guy playing in Russia that has little to no contact with the PA, and just figures out what is going on through the Media, then he should get involved right away I agree with you 100% in that sense, but aslong as people have significant contact I'm fine with them making the most of there prime season's.

I understand his frustration also, and I don't blame him. I think we are all frustrated.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 27 November 2012 - 06:18 PM.

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#3495 gizmo2337

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:47 PM

I don't see how a reasonable independent mediator can't be helpful, unless one or both of the parties aren't cooperative. It seems to me if both sides cooperate to allow the mediation to complete properly, it should be a reasonable deal (though not necessarily preventing a future lockout).


I don't think the NHL will be cooperative. The mediator isn't going to be brining offers to the table, or siding one way or the other. The *only* reason the NHL is attending this mediation is to appear to try and say "hey, we tried". If decertification should happen "refusing mediation" would look bad in court I'd think. In fact, this is a sign that the NHL is suddenly taking decertification more seriously as a possible outcome. I expect 3-5 days of mediation followed by a fail.
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#3496 Mauii

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:32 PM

Can anyone explain how a lockout can be allowed as per the NFL ruling when there is no CBA or a union. I understand their ruling was based on the notion that federal courts cannot interfere with labour disputes but doesn't labour law also make reference to lockouts in a union/employer/CBA scenario. Hence, where there is no union or CBA to negotiate with, how can the league meet the legal requirements to hold a lockout.

Edited by Mauii, 27 November 2012 - 09:38 PM.

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#3497 SamJamIam

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:54 PM

Can anyone explain how a lockout can be allowed as per the NFL ruling when there is no CBA or a union. I understand their ruling was based on the notion that federal courts cannot interfere with labour disputes but doesn't labour law also make reference to lockouts in a union/employer/CBA scenario. Hence, where there is no union or CBA to negotiate with, how can the league meet the legal requirements to hold a lockout.


No CBA doesn't mean no union. If there is no agreement, that doesn't mean the parties that need to come to an agreement cease to exist.
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#3498 goalie13

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:07 AM

No CBA doesn't mean no union. If there is no agreement, that doesn't mean the parties that need to come to an agreement cease to exist.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Mauii meant if there was no union, like in the case of decertifying.

The way I basically understand it from what I have read and listened to, is you can't have things like a draft, restricted free agency or a salary cap without a union and subsequent CBA. Technically, those kinds of things are anti-competitive measures, but as long as you have a union of employees agreeing to work under those rules, it's legal to operate that way.

Where the courts get involved is you can't just decertify on a whim. You have to apply to the courts for that right. As well, there's also the anti-trust laws, which I can't even pretend to understand.
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#3499 D-Money

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:54 AM

I do.

My post was aimed at those who disagreed with Hamrlik's comments the other day - that he was being selfish and was damaging the Union's position.  
Yet here we have many players who are playing for other leagues - to me that's the same thing.


Well...it's not.

Just because they are doing another job while being locked out of their old one, doesn't mean they don't fully support those appointed to negotiated in their behalf.

I'm in a union. If we went on strike, I don't think I'd picket. But I certainly wouldn't cross the picket line, or publicly criticize my union officials. I would just go do some work on the side in a non-related industry, and wait/hope for the union that took my dues for years to go earn them.
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#3500 Heretic

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:58 AM

Well...it's not.

Just because they are doing another job while being locked out of their old one, doesn't mean they don't fully support those appointed to negotiated in their behalf.

I'm in a union. If we went on strike, I don't think I'd picket. But I certainly wouldn't cross the picket line, or publicly criticize my union officials. I would just go do some work on the side in a non-related industry, and wait/hope for the union that took my dues for years to go earn them.


So playing hockey elsewhere is non related to playing hockey in the NHL?
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#3501 Heretic

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:58 AM


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#3502 D-Money

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:00 AM

I can agree with that.

Sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do.

Likewise, I can understand the frustration guys like Hamrlik have as well.


You can understand the frustration of someone who has made over 25 million in the last 5 years - barely earning half of that - and just wanting to squeeze out the last 3.5 million of his hideously inflated contract?

But yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do... Those garages don't fill with Bentley's by themselves!
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#3503 Heretic

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:04 AM

You can understand the frustration of someone who has made over 25 million in the last 5 years - barely earning half of that - and just wanting to squeeze out the last 3.5 million of his hideously inflated contract?

But yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do... Those garages don't fill with Bentley's by themselves!


As Crosby said, he's got the right to say whatever he wants.

This is the misconception people have about unions.
They think unions are there to protect the individual.
They're not.
They're not there to protect everyone neither.
They are only there for the majority.
So if 51% vote strike or no to an offer, than the other 49% are out of luck.
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#3504 D-Money

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:04 AM

So playing hockey elsewhere is non related to playing hockey in the NHL?


It's non-related, because it is on a completely different continent.

That is reflected legally as well. Even though the owners locked them out, they cannot sign in the AHL or ECHL. However, there are specific guidelines set out for playing overseas.
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#3505 Heretic

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:07 AM

It's non-related, because it is on a completely different continent.

That is reflected legally as well. Even though the owners locked them out, they cannot sign in the AHL or ECHL. However, there are specific guidelines set out for playing overseas.


Right....sorry...I disagree...that's a cop out....like you said, these guys are making millions - why do they need to make millions more elsewhere?
And don't give me this crap they need to stay focused on their skills - that's another cop out...


Edit: You work for Computer Company ABC. They go on strike. You go work for Computer Company XYZ because they're in a different neighbourhood. Sorry - it's still related.

Edited by Heretic, 28 November 2012 - 09:08 AM.

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#3506 D-Money

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:19 AM

As Crosby said, he's got the right to say whatever he wants.

This is the misconception people have about unions.
They think unions are there to protect the individual.
They're not.
They're not there to protect everyone neither.
They are only there for the majority.
So if 51% vote strike or no to an offer, than the other 49% are out of luck.


This is the misconception people have about themselves.
They think their opinion on communal issues matters.
It does not - beyond the percentage of the majority their vote represents.

You can't please everybody all of the time. So you go with the majority, plain and simple. Anything else would be unfair.

The majority of the players negotiating right now plan on playing for many years. Many of them already have multi-year contracts. Many others plan on getting multi-year contracts in the near future. None of them want to bend over for this CBA (not to mention set a precedent for what will happen next CBA).

But some multimillionaire in the twilight of his career, who has one year left on a contract paying a salary he will never be offered again, thinks they should bend over and settle immediately, so that he can get his. He doesn't care about UFA age, because he's past it. He doesn't care about contract limits, because he'll never get offered another long contract. He doesn't care about who 'makes whole', because he'll be packing it in before it's an issue. He really doesn't care about anything but the last year of his contract.

Hamrlik's position is the epitome of selfish.
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#3507 D-Money

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:25 AM

Right....sorry...I disagree...that's a cop out....like you said, these guys are making millions - why do they need to make millions more elsewhere?  
And don't give me this crap they need to stay focused on their skills - that's another cop out...


Edit: You work for Computer Company ABC.  They go on strike.  You go work for Computer Company XYZ because they're in a different neighbourhood. Sorry - it's still related.


Your example is nothing alike. It has nothing to do with the work/service - it's all about the customer base. The leagues are completely unrelated, because they serve COMPLETELY different customers.

None of those leagues play anywhere where a person in North America can buy a ticket and go watch. Their games are not broadcast in this continent. The NHL does not directly compete with these leagues for paid viewers and ticket-buyers. There is no business-based conflict.
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#3508 Heretic

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:27 AM

This is the misconception people have about themselves.
They think their opinion on communal issues matters.
It does not - beyond the percentage of the majority their vote represents.

You can't please everybody all of the time. So you go with the majority, plain and simple. Anything else would be unfair.

The majority of the players negotiating right now plan on playing for many years. Many of them already have multi-year contracts. Many others plan on getting multi-year contracts in the near future. None of them want to bend over for this CBA (not to mention set a precedent for what will happen next CBA).

But some multimillionaire in the twilight of his career, who has one year left on a contract paying a salary he will never be offered again, thinks they should bend over and settle immediately, so that he can get his. He doesn't care about UFA age, because he's past it. He doesn't care about contract limits, because he'll never get offered another long contract. He doesn't care about who 'makes whole', because he'll be packing it in before it's an issue. He really doesn't care about anything but the last year of his contract.

Hamrlik's position is the epitome of selfish.


Yes...and those playing over seas care nothing about themselves neither (for the most part).

I don't care that the driving age is 16, or voting is 18, as I already passed them (long long time ago) - does that make me a selfish old goat?

Oh - I disagree, I believe one person can make a difference:


“I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everthing, but still I can do something; I will not refuse to do something I can do.”
Helen Keller

“Few will have the greatness to bend history itself, but each of us can work to change a small portion of events. It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.”
Robert F. Kennedy

“In a gentle way, you can shake the world.”
Mahatma Gandhi

“No work is insignificant. All labor that uplifts humanity has dignity and importance and should be undertaken with painstaking excellence.”
Martin Luther King Jr.

Oh..I'm sure I don't have to remind you of what a difference a certain Carpenter did over 2000 years ago. ;)
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#3509 Heretic

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:28 AM

Your example is nothing alike. It has nothing to do with the work/service - it's all about the customer base. The leagues are completely unrelated, because they serve COMPLETELY different customers.

None of those leagues play anywhere where a person in North America can buy a ticket and go watch. Their games are not broadcast in this continent. The NHL does not directly compete with these leagues for paid viewers and ticket-buyers. There is no business-based conflict.


Wrong. Ovie might not come back. Joe Consumer might not renew his Centre Ice package and instead follow the KHL from now on...
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#3510 Heretic

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:41 AM

What about these NHL players taking the jobs of those in other leagues?

From another thread, "Looks like Schneider (signing with Ambri Piotta) will replace Nolan Schaefer as starter. "

But as soon as the NHL restarts, these players will leave those teams...so look at what it has done.
Players get displaced as they are not good enough to be the starter, then they are asked to be the starter...teams that benefited have inflated stats...they may make the playoffs when another team should have....it's a huge snowball effect...

IMHO, if a player goes and plays elsewhere, their contract should be null and void in the NHL..

Yes...I know...the NHL bends over backwards for these players so they have made allowances for players to do this...
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