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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#5281 pibroch

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:46 AM

As long as they didn't make the nets bigger to boost scoring I would be ok with it. We better see that verification line soon too.

If they make the nets bigger I'll start watching the KHL or the SEL or SM-Liiga or someting instead.

Edited by pibroch, 26 December 2012 - 01:46 AM.

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#5282 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

@BroadStBull
No plans for #NHL and #NHLPA to meet this week. They haven't met in person in the last 13 days.
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#5283 gizmo2337

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

Expected next steps:
-players offer 10 year CBA, 6/8 year contract term limit and 25% variance
-league turns nose up in air again after passing gas - buildup from leftover turkey dinners
-players file disclaimer, then anti-trust lawsuits and emergency request to lift lockout
-owners crap the bed and try to negotiate
-players decide life without Bettman is better, make disclaimer permanent
-future lockouts prevented, Fehr wins
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#5284 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:05 PM

Lou Larmoriello: "I'm embarrassed for the game.":

As the NHL inches closer to the cancellation of the entire 2012-13 season, Devils general manager Lou Lamoriello is still hopeful that a partial schedule can be saved.


But with the lockout having reached its 102nd day without any hint of a breakthrough on a new collective bargaining agreement between the league and its players, Lamoriello voiced his frustration yesterday.


"I’m embarrassed for the game," Lamoriello told The Star-Ledger.


NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said no talks have been scheduled. With regular season games having been canceled through Jan. 14, the rest of the season will be scrapped unless the two sides can come up with a new CBA in the next two weeks.


"It’s coming down to the wire right now," Lamoriello said. "We’ve just got to trust the people that are involved. I’m embarrassed we are where we’re at. That’s the best expression I can use."

He is not alone.


Phoenix Coyotes forward Shane Doan told the Arizona Republic the lockout players are starting to feel embarrassed about saying they play in the NHL.


"You’ve always been proud to say you’re an NHL player, to tell people that you play for the NHL. ‘I play in the NHL,’ " Doan said. "I think now it’s getting to the point where you’re losing some of that pride because it’s been tarnished so much. You care so much about the sport, you want it to be doing well. Obviously, we have to find a way to get this going."


Lamoriello didn’t want to think it would take this long.


"I really didn’t know. Like everybody, I hoped not," Lamoriello said, "but we are where we are right now and we’re getting to the 11th hour. I’m just hopeful everything can work out."


In past lockouts, Lamoriello has taken an active role in negotiations, working alongside commissioner Gary Bettman in 1994-95, but that hasn’t been the case this time.


"I’m not involved the way I was in the past. I can’t answer why," Lamoriello said.

It’s easy to speculate why.


One of the points in which the owners have held firm during the lockout is the length of contracts. They want five or six-year term limits on new contracts and seven or eight-year limits on re-signing a team’s own players.


Lamoriello defied the league by signing Ilya Kovalchuk to a 17-year, $102 million contract in July of 2010. That deal was nullified by the NHL, which penalized the Devils $3 million and the loss of two draft picks (first and third rounders). Kovalchuk’s contract was changed to a 15-year, $100 million deal.


As the new year approaches, the question can be asked: What will hurt the NHL more, 15-year contracts or the cancellation of another full season?


http://www.nj.com/de...o_on_nhl_l.html
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#5285 grandmaster

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:49 PM

This will only get settled once one side feels more of a pinch in lost revenue than the other.

Both sides are too firm in their positions and no one is suffering enough.

They could care less about the fans or anyone else.
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#5286 Boudrias

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:58 AM

This will only get settled once one side feels more of a pinch in lost revenue than the other.

Both sides are too firm in their positions and no one is suffering enough.

They could care less about the fans or anyone else.

You nailed it. Rich guys fighting over the spoils. Players deluded to a degree and owners who are prepared to pay what price to get what they want. Jan 3 or 4th is the drop dead. Look out after that as the gloves will really come off.
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#5287 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:59 PM

Fans unlikely to embrace the NHL as they did after the last lockout:

There will be pain.


That is the message from top marketing and sponsorship executives who are following the NHL lockout and looking to its conclusion – whether that is a shortened season starting in January, or another full year is wiped out.


Fans are fed up. Sponsors are fed up, too.


And for the first time, the league could feel some significant blowback when it attempts to relaunch from its third prolonged work stoppage in just 18 years.


“Without a doubt,” S&E Sponsorship Group president Brian Cooper said, when asked about the potential for a negative response from NHL fans and sponsors. “It’s inevitable for any brand taken off the shelf. But not only taken off the shelf, one that has some ambiguous cloud of uncertainty around it or negative light shone on it.


“I think the product’s great. I think the NHL’s great and a lot of fans think the way I do, but there’s been an emotional connection and a trust that has been tested. In some cases, people feel betrayed.”


Unlike 7 1/2 years ago, when the NHL relaunched with new rules, new stars, a new financial system and watched as revenues quickly went up, the league has little in its arsenal whenever it returns from this latest stoppage.


The collective agreement will be somewhat different, but other than perhaps slightly more competitive balance, the changes experienced by fans will be minute.


Instead, it’s believed the league will come back meekly, perhaps offering more of an apology than the last time, when the message “Thank you fans” was scrawled on the ice in all 30 buildings.


“Dare I suggest that they feel sorry for what they put their fans through?” said Paul Swangard, managing director of the Warsaw Sports Marketing Center at the University of Oregon. “It’s sort of like a bank account, and instead of money you’ve got goodwill in the bank. If you spend it and don’t rebuild it, you’re eventually going to run out of money.


“There would potentially come a time – maybe not in the Torontos, Montreals and New Yorks – that there won’t always be a core fan base. A little humility at the end of this, setting the right tone with fans, will help show players and owners are at least appreciative of the level of investment they’re giving.”


Whatever damage is done to revenues will likely affect the on-ice product, too. The players’ share looks to dip to 50 per cent from 57 per cent, which will mean a lower cap (likely in the $65-million U.S. range) in the first few years, and significant pain for teams that have committed a lot of payroll to players beyond the 2012-13 season. (The Vancouver Canucks, for example, has committed more than $55-million in 2013-14 to just 13 players.)


That would mean some of the higher-salaried clubs will have to toss bodies overboard – likely for little in return – to the benefit of teams with plenty of cap space.


Then, there’s the implications of a strict term limit on player contracts, which could range anywhere from five to eight years, depending on how negotiations progress. Such a move would wipe out the advantage many high-revenue teams have had in terms of front-loading deals and mean salary cap hits for star players would go up.


It’s also likely the wealthier teams would begin compensating some of their depth players with longer contracts, meaning some teams could potentially have eight to 10 players on five- or six-year deals.


In theory, those shifts in the CBA should give teams on the lower end more of a fighting chance when it comes to signing free agents and retaining their own talent.


Teams such as the Florida Panthers, Carolina Hurricanes and Nashville Predators should be able to compete better, as was the case at the start of the last agreement, when the Hurricanes and Anaheim Ducks won the first two Stanley Cups under a very low salary cap.


As revenues rise, however, the imbalance is likely to again grow, and the wealthier teams will be able to continue to sink more and more money into areas outside of the cap: management, scouting and the minor-league system.


Perhaps, however, that should read “if” revenues rise. That wasn’t really an issue the last time around, with the league growing by an average of more than 7 per cent a season under the last CBA.


Few forecast that kind of explosive growth again, but there’s also optimism the NHL will eventually be able to regain its footing, especially if the end result of this fight is a half-season of games.


The hard-core hockey fans are especially forgiving, the experts say, and despite some thinly veiled threats in recent weeks, they are unlikely to give up for good.


“Until I see a galvanized base of fan revolt, I’m more confident than pessimistic that things will return,” Swangard said. “The NHL has a great product on the ice. They give consumers a decent value for their entertainment value. And there’s a cultural phenomenon there.


“There’s ultimately damage that’s occurring every time this happens. The negative passion that fans apply to these labour situations seems to get angrier and angrier and, yet, it’s that anger that shows what makes the sports world so unique: The level of customer loyalty,” he said.


“You wouldn’t accept this in almost any other line of business. But for your favourite sports team, there’s something intrinsically stronger that binds us to that product that makes us hard to walk away.”


http://www.theglobea..._medium=twitter
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#5288 WHL rocks

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:31 PM

Edit. I'm tired of letting the lockout frustrate me. So I'll modify my post.

I don't know maybe this should be a new thread but can anyone figure out how to circumvent the cap with the new rules? I'm kinda worried for the Canucks with no real top end talent in the system and only 12 players signed at $50 million for next season after they trade Luongo.

Lets say NHL and PA meet at halfway form current positions.

6/8 max contract length
50/50 revenue sharing
$300 million make whole
9 year CBA with 8th year opt out.
$60 million cap hit for next season $62.5 and $65 for subsequent years.

Edited by WHL rocks, 27 December 2012 - 11:58 PM.

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#5289 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:36 AM

Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun
An NHL player says the NHL made a new offer to the NHLPA on Thursday, one which moved on contract term limits, buyouts and variance...

Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun
NHL offer calls for term limit on player contracts to be six years (7 if you're re-signing your own guys).

Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun
New offer sees each team afforded one compliance buyout prior to 2013-14 season. Doesn't count vs. cap but it does vs. players' share

Elliotte Friedman@FriedgeHNIC
New NHL proposal adds one buyout per team...does not count against cap, but does count against HRR. Potentially significant move here.

Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Also the Make Whole $$$$ stays at $300 million

Darren Dreger@DarrenDreger
Among the changes in the new proposal, the NHL adjusted its max contract length from 5 to 6 yrs. Boosted the variance from 5% to 10%.

And probably the most interesting one of all:

Bob McKenzie@TSNBobMcKenzie
In the interest of accuracy, @Eklund was first to report the NHL offer to NHLPA.

Edited by Sweatt_GLaNDs, 28 December 2012 - 07:45 AM.

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#5290 SynysterGates

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:40 AM

Fehr better fricking take this deal. But he probably won't because both sides are so arrogant that they insist the new deal be made off their own offer
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#5291 gmen81

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:42 AM

Lp
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#5292 brewdog

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:44 AM

Funny how Bettman's 'best offer' keeps getting better.
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#5293 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:47 AM

OMG.

Could this be what we have been waiting for!!!!?????
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#5294 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:48 AM

This is pretty much the offer that is needed to get the season going, as long as there aren't any things that are hidden in the background that favour the NHL this looks like a fair deal for both sides.

So excited.
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#5295 Heretic

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:49 AM

Funny how the owners are always making concessions....amazing how the employees can dictate what the owners can and can't do....
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#5296 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:52 AM

Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun
At this point there is no scheduled meeting between both sides set for today. NHLPA needs time to review lengthy and detailed offer from NHL


Something tells me this is it. Either the players accept it as is, or no season.
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#5297 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:54 AM

We just need to find out what the CBA length is, it looks to me though like they moved to a about where we need to be, just gotta let the PA look through this thoroughly, and I expect things to take off honestly, both sides realize they can't lose the season over this stuff, and that deadline is fast approaching.

honestly I am very optimistic because I wasn't expecting this from the NHL. But If this progress somehow slips away back to the abyss we found ourselves in the last time we thought we were close then I think the season is done.

This is the true make or break moment. And I think we are way to close to the 'make' for this to 'break'.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 28 December 2012 - 07:56 AM.

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#5298 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:10 AM

We just need to find out what the CBA length is, it looks to me though like they moved to a about where we need to be, just gotta let the PA look through this thoroughly, and I expect things to take off honestly, both sides realize they can't lose the season over this stuff, and that deadline is fast approaching.

honestly I am very optimistic because I wasn't expecting this from the NHL. But If this progress somehow slips away back to the abyss we found ourselves in the last time we thought we were close then I think the season is done.

This is the true make or break moment. And I think we are way to close to the 'make' for this to 'break'.



Not confirmed but:
Elliotte Friedman@FriedgeHNIC
As @Real_ESPNLeBrun reported, also changes to term limits and variance. With $300M make-whole on table, NHL must be asking for 10-year...
Elliotte Friedman@FriedgeHNIC
Term, although I assume an out after 8.


Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Player says new league offer still calls for salary cap to be $60 M for 2013-14 season, which could be an issue (escrow).
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#5299 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:14 AM

Not confirmed but:
Elliotte Friedman@FriedgeHNIC
As @Real_ESPNLeBrun reported, also changes to term limits and variance. With $300M make-whole on table, NHL must be asking for 10-year...
Elliotte Friedman@FriedgeHNIC
Term, although I assume an out after 8.


Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Player says new league offer still calls for salary cap to be $60 M for 2013-14 season, which could be an issue (escrow).


I think those are both reasonable, maybe if the Escrow is still a big issue for the players they could get a little bit more movement there and then give in on the CBA length, and have that wrap up the final proposal.
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#5300 D-Money

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:41 AM

Funny how the owners are always making concessions....amazing how the employees can dictate what the owners can and can't do....


"Less demands" =/= "concessions"

...Amazing how the owners can sign career-length, multi-million dollar deals, and then a few months later expect the players to simply sign away a big chunk of what they were contracted for.
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#5301 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:54 AM

Nick Kypreos@RealKyper
Good sign #NHL owners aren't willing to burn season but latest offer not close 2 getting deal done. #NHLPA counter offer already in works.

Edited by Sweatt_GLaNDs, 28 December 2012 - 09:54 AM.

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#5302 Gooseberries

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:01 AM

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper
Good sign #NHL owners aren't willing to burn season but latest offer not close 2 getting deal done. #NHLPA counter offer already in works.

guy also said team Canada wouldn't medal in Vancouver lmao
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#5303 Heretic

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:21 AM

"Less demands" =/= "concessions"

...Amazing how the owners can sign career-length, multi-million dollar deals, and then a few months later expect the players to simply sign away a big chunk of what they were contracted for.


Amazing how the agents force the owners to sign players to multi year deals for more than they are worth by threatening that they will go elsewhere...
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#5304 grandmaster

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:37 AM

guy also said team Canada wouldn't medal in Vancouver lmao


Kypreos is an idiot
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#5305 ice orca

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:43 AM

Amazing how the agents force the owners to sign players to multi year deals for more than they are worth by threatening that they will go elsewhere...

Before agents the owners used players like they were cattle even to the point if they got married they would get sent to the minors as a lesson, they had less rights to ply their trade than anybody in society.
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#5306 Heretic

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:49 AM

Before agents the owners used players like they were cattle even to the point if they got married they would get sent to the minors as a lesson, they had less rights to ply their trade than anybody in society.


Right...do you hear that sound? That's me playing "Cry me a river" on the worlds smallest violin.
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#5307 D-Money

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:56 AM

Right...do you hear that sound?  That's me playing "Cry me a river" on the worlds smallest violin.


Why do you expect the players just to bow and give away the rights they bargained for in fairness? Just so you can watch them play?

People pretend to care about "the game", etc. But in reality, most are just a bunch of spoiled brats that just want to be entertained and catered to.
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#5308 gizmo2337

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:11 AM


Hockey Buzz Eklund@Eklund

I have updated my blog here> http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=48090

Expand


Darren Dreger@DarrenDreger

@Eklund. Good work on this story, Ek.

Expand


Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun

@DarrenDreger @Eklund I'll second that Ek !
Collapse

Joe Haggerty@HackswithHaggs
Credit where it's due: @Eklund was all over this new offer from NHL and had been hinting at it before he actually reported it. Major props
Hide conversation
:picard: This will surely lead to more fake rumours. Hey Jimmy! I got one right! Waiting for the double face-palm E(5)

Edited by gizmo2337, 28 December 2012 - 11:14 AM.

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#5309 poetica

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:12 AM

NHL MAKES NEW CBA OFFER TO PLAYERS' ASSOCIATION

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly confirmed on Friday the league made a new CBA proposal to the NHL Players' Association on Thursday afternoon.

An NHL player who requested anonymity told TSN the new offer included movement on term limits for player contracts, salary variance and buyouts.

"In light of media reports this morning, I can confirm that we delivered to the Union a new, comprehensive proposal for a successor CBA late yesterday afternoon," said Daly in a statement." We are not prepared to discuss the details of our proposal at this time. We are hopeful that once the Union's staff and negotiating committee have had an opportunity to thoroughly review and consider our new proposal, they will share it with the players. We want to be back on the ice as soon as possible."

The NHLPA has scheduled a 3pm et conference call to discuss the offer internally but there is no plan as yet for the two sides to meet on Friday.

According to TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger, the NHL adjusted its maximum contract length from five to six years (seven years if a team is re-signing its own player) and boosted the variance from five to 10 per cent.

TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun adds that the new offer includes the 'Make Whole' provision that stays at $300 million and allows each team one compliance buyout prior to the 2013-14 season. The buyout would not count against the cap, but it would against the players' share.

The length of the agreement would be 10 years with a mutual opt-out clause after eight years while the league maintains their desire to change the start of the free agency period from July 1 to July 10.

The player says the new league offer still calls for the salary cap to be $60 million for the 2013-14 season, which could be an issue when it comes to escrow.

The lockout is in its 104th day.


Being that it's a "comprehensive proposal" I'm assuming that means it's one that the union could take to a vote. So, maybe Santa did get my letter!!
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#5310 poetica

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:20 AM

Good sign #NHL owners aren't willing to burn season but latest offer not close 2 getting deal done. #NHLPA counter offer already in works.

— Nick Kypreos (@RealKyper) December 28, 2012


With the Players' Conf. Call set for 3 PM et...Don't expect to hear anything about an NHL-PA meeting until after the call.

— John Shannon (@JSportsnet) December 28, 2012


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Go, Canucks, Go!
Every single one of them.

Thanks for the memories, Luo! :'(




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