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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread


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#1351 poetica

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:36 AM

I haven't seen all the details, but I'm not getting too excited yet. On the surface a 50/50 seems fair, but it the 2 sides can't agree upon a definition for "hockey related revenue" it's meaningless.


Exactly. That's what's worrying me. The NHL may have made a "50/50" offer because they know (from their focus group research) that that sounds fair to most fans, but if they also redefined HRR it could actually mean players are getting much, much less. Frankly, it could be that the NHL is banking on the ignorance of most fans when it comes to HRR, thinking that we will hear that they offered a 50/50 split (which the educated fan knows includes deductions for many costs BEFORE the players' share is determined so in reality players would actually get less than 50% even without a redefinition of HRR) and think players would just be greedy to reject it when in reality the offer redefined HRR to the point that players get closer to 40%. I hope that's not the case, but given the fact that they hired a propaganda specialist to do research in how to sell this lockout to the fans, it's hard to take them at face value.
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#1352 Sergei Shirokov

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:38 AM

This is awesome. So we might actually get 82 games?
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#1353 Nevlach

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:44 AM

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How is there no rollback but yet they are lowering the player percentage 7%

I thought that meant they didn't reduce the HRR to make 50-50 seem more fair than it actually is...

Could be wrong, not sure.
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#1354 theminister

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:45 AM

I would read the fine print closely.

It's not unlike Bettman and the League to include a poison pill in this deal if they don't actually want the players to accept. Then they can refuse to budge, put the onus on the players and start the propaganda wars in earnest.

Essentially, I remain skeptical yet.
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#1355 Alex the Great

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:45 AM

Please. Please. I just want to watch hockey :c
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#1356 theminister

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:46 AM

I also am very curious about how they expect to reduce to 50/50 without a rollback. Intuitively that doesn't make sense so there must be a complicated mechanism there.

Edited by theminister, 16 October 2012 - 10:49 AM.

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#1357 goalie13

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:46 AM

This is awesome. So we might actually get 82 games?


That worries me a bit. Does that mean the Stanley Cup would be presented in August? Or does it mean a more compact schedule? If it's a more compact schedule, then the risk of injuries go up.

I would prefer a shortened season in this case.
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#1358 playboi19

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:46 AM

Mobile Bump
How is there no rollback but yet they are lowering the player percentage 7%

Players salaries are protected in 2012-2013
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#1359 SN -Admin

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:48 AM

An extra game every 5th week for each team.


Injuries. Injuries everywhere.
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#1360 Darth Kane

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:49 AM

That worries me a bit. Does that mean the Stanley Cup would be presented in August? Or does it mean a more compact schedule? If it's a more compact schedule, then the risk of injuries go up.

I would prefer a shortened season in this case.


I agree, I'd be content with a 70 game season (give or take a few games).

I wonder what the lenght of the new CBA will be? I'm just curious when the next lockout will be.
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#1361 CanuckianOne

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:51 AM

Pretty exciting news.
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#1362 Markus Alexander Cody

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:54 AM

No phase in?



And please accept this. Hockey markets are starving for more hockey and this is the year for many teams to win the Cup, like the Canucks, Rangers, Sharks, etc. Many teams need these next few years to see if they can win the Cup and having an entire season lockout will kill these teams.
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#1363 playboi19

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:58 AM

I agree, I'd be content with a 70 game season (give or take a few games).

I wonder what the lenght of the new CBA will be? I'm just curious when the next lockout will be.

6 years
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#1364 CanuckinEdm

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:02 AM

Players salaries are protected in 2012-2013

So then there is a rollback the next year.... There is no way they take that deal
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#1365 boxiebrown

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:04 AM

Exactly. That's what's worrying me. The NHL may have made a "50/50" offer because they know (from their focus group research) that that sounds fair to most fans, but if they also redefined HRR it could actually mean players are getting much, much less. Frankly, it could be that the NHL is banking on the ignorance of most fans when it comes to HRR, thinking that we will hear that they offered a 50/50 split (which the educated fan knows includes deductions for many costs BEFORE the players' share is determined so in reality players would actually get less than 50% even without a redefinition of HRR) and think players would just be greedy to reject it when in reality the offer redefined HRR to the point that players get closer to 40%. I hope that's not the case, but given the fact that they hired a propaganda specialist to do research in how to sell this lockout to the fans, it's hard to take them at face value.


I'd be worried about this too, except that Fehr (who presumably knows more about the deal than the 50/50 split) called it an "excellent start." If there were any HRR shenanigans going on, Fehr would have hammered the deal right away.
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#1366 playboi19

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:04 AM

So then there is a rollback the next year.... There is no way they take that deal

It's been said all along though that the players weren't receptive to a salary rollback right away. They are going to have to take one and they know it already. They should suck it up now that they won't lose anything this season.
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#1367 Prngr44

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:07 AM

Free agency extended to 28 yrs or 8 years instead of 27/7.
Contract max is 5 years
Revenue sharing increased to 200M.

If there aren't any rollbacks, teams will be wheeling and dealing to get under the cap.


*** I fully expect the NHLPA to counter on contract max. I'm assuming existing contracts are grandfathered in.

Edited by Prngr44, 16 October 2012 - 11:07 AM.

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#1368 CanuckinEdm

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:18 AM

I think it will come down to something like this if a player was making $5,000,000 cap hit on a 5 year contract for that entire contract he is payed what he is owed.but in the terms of the cap he is making $5,000,000 - 7% = $4,650,000 so there wont need to be buyouts and such. eventually the only contract that will be left is Dipietro haha.
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#1369 poetica

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:20 AM

I'd be worried about this too, except that Fehr (who presumably knows more about the deal than the 50/50 split) called it an "excellent start." If there were any HRR shenanigans going on, Fehr would have hammered the deal right away.


Good point!

Here's hoping!
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#1370 Darth Kane

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:21 AM

Free agency extended to 28 yrs or 8 years instead of 27/7.
Contract max is 5 years
Revenue sharing increased to 200M.

If there aren't any rollbacks, teams will be wheeling and dealing to get under the cap.


*** I fully expect the NHLPA to counter on contract max. I'm assuming existing contracts are grandfathered in.


On the surface this seems like a decent offer, but after the NHLPA goes through it with a fine tooth comb we'll see how good or bad it really is.

I like the idea of changing free agency to 28/8, it's not that much difference for the players but gives the owners a little more protection. If they're giving on the HRR then it's reasonable to ask for this.

It will be interesting to see how teams get under the cap, maybe there's a one-time buyout provision. It won't be too bad league wide if the cap is around $64 million. Boston, Minnesota, Vancouver, Calgary, Philly, and SJ have moves to make. Chicago and Buffalo are on the boarderline but both rosters are at 24 players so sending 1 playing to the AHL would be enough. I wonder how this would impact any potential Luongo deal?
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#1371 theminister

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:27 AM

$3.3 Bil x 50% / 30 teams = $55 mil salary cap.

A reduction of $9 mil per team.

That's IF revenue starts at $3.3 which it may very well not be.
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#1372 gmen81

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:31 AM

I realize that the PA won't accept this deal as is(mainly on contract lengths), but I think negotiations will start getting serious and they need to be meeting everyday for 12-18 hours for the next few days and try and work out a deal ASAP
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#1373 Remy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:40 AM

LP
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#1374 boxiebrown

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:45 AM

5 year max contracts is interesting because it effects certain members of the NHLPA way more than others. Star players - especially those still on ELCs - would have to be pretty choked by that, but the vast majority of the PA will never see a contract longer than 3-4 years anyways. Will be interesting to see how hard the PA fights that.
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#1375 hockeyville88

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:46 AM

Please please please PA. Please accept the offer and end this madness. We need hockey!
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#1376 Jai604

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:54 AM

At the very least, even if it's not the proposal that both sides will agree on, at least the NHL is really trying to bargain in good faith now.

I see this 50/50 offer as a HUGE move by the NHL, regardless of whether or not HRR is being redefined or not. Remember guys, that they wanted 57% for the owners AND to redefine HRR. That they have finally tabled a proposal offering a fair 50/50 split down the middle (irrespective of the new HRR definitions) we should all see this as a giant step towards making a deal.

They will surely spend some time tweaking this proposal, and revisiting the 82-game compact schedule idea, but in the end, I think it's safe to say that today's proposal will later be talked about as the first big stepping stone in the discussions up to date.
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#1377 elvis15

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:58 AM

I'd be worried about this too, except that Fehr (who presumably knows more about the deal than the 50/50 split) called it an "excellent start." If there were any HRR shenanigans going on, Fehr would have hammered the deal right away.

The NHL's proposal has included both a change in the HRR split and a redefinition of what HRR is previously. The NHLPA has already asked to negotiate the HRR split without redefining what HRR is, although that could still be worked on if they can agree on a split.

It's been said all along though that the players weren't receptive to a salary rollback right away. They are going to have to take one and they know it already. They should suck it up now that they won't lose anything this season.

One thing we don't hear mentioned is escrow - either that or people are lumping it in with rolllbacks. The NHLPA is looking to not have a rollback in the actual salary paid this season, preferring adjustments in the coming seasons possibly involving escrow instead.

Escrow is a portion of the salary withheld until the following season, at which point it is paid back to the players up to the full amount based on other factors of how the league did. It's more complex than that, but a contract like Garrison's would be worth less than $27.6M with a rollback, while an increased escrow agreement would keep the contract's dollar amount the same just having it paid out differently.

Edited by elvis15, 16 October 2012 - 11:59 AM.

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#1378 infinitecarnage

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:09 PM

60 - 64 games will do just fine. 82-game season is way too long and irksome even for the normal schedule.
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#1379 Snake Doctor

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:11 PM

Optimistic fan here thinks a deal will be done by Friday.
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#1380 MC Fatigue

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:14 PM

last
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