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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 6.0


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#31 oldnews

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:02 PM

But where does that leave the Islanders??? They have nothing moving forward. Nilsson, Poulin? These guys aren't the answer. Dipietro is almost 32 years old and still hasn't found his game! It's time for them to cut their loses. I'm not saying they have to get Luongo, but out of all the teams mentioned they should have the most interest.

If they don't get a goalie in a trade they're going to end up having to completely overpay an average goalie just to show interest as an unrestricted free agent.


I wouldn't write the Isles off - they just went out and snatched Thomas' contract to manipulate the cap floor.
They're also spending 2.75 on Nabokov who is a UFA at season's end - Luongo is actually only 2.6 million more of cap hit than Nabokov, so regardless of what they manage with Dipietro, I don't think it's unreasonable to see them having interest, particularly with so much talent developing in the system and poised for a move to a new arena.

Nabokov could make some sense as he'd give us a solid veteran backup until season's end, and then is a UFA, at which point we run with Lack next season assuming he's healthy.
Luo for Nelson, Pokka, 1st and throw in Nabokov?

With Tavares, Strome, Nielsen, and Bailey, imo Nelson is a very reasonable expectation. Pokka is a young Finnish right side prospect. Not terribly interested in their roster players... perhaps Okposo or Cizikas? A little difficult to find the right parts there.
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#32 RockNroLLa.

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:23 PM

I wouldn't write the Isles off - they just went out and snatched Thomas' contract to manipulate the cap floor.
They're also spending 2.75 on Nabokov who is a UFA at season's end - Luongo is actually only 2.6 million more of cap hit than Nabokov, so regardless of what they manage with Dipietro, I don't think it's unreasonable to see them having interest, particularly with so much talent developing in the system and poised for a move to a new arena.

Nabokov could make some sense as he'd give us a solid veteran backup until season's end, and then is a UFA, at which point we run with Lack next season assuming he's healthy.
Luo for Nelson, Pokka, 1st and throw in Nabokov?

With Tavares, Strome, Nielsen, and Bailey, imo Nelson is a very reasonable expectation. Pokka is a young Finnish right side prospect. Not terribly interested in their roster players... perhaps Okposo or Cizikas? A little difficult to find the right parts there.


I wonder if there have been any discussions between MG and Snow..
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#33 Truckin

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:47 PM

Looks like Fla called up Jacob Markstrom - says they need to cut goals against down: http://miamiherald.t...rce=twitterfeed

Curious if this doesn't work out, is the next step Luongo?



I saw this today and expected more chatter about it on the forums. Seems people haved resided to us rolling with 2 Goalies as # 1,yet it feels very dangerous to dump Lou at the draft. I still think something will give by trade deadline for us,like it or not in what we get in return.

Hope Markstroms game is televised so I can get a look at his skills,figure out what the hype is about.
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#34 TmanVan

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:17 PM

I wouldn't write the Isles off - they just went out and snatched Thomas' contract to manipulate the cap floor.
They're also spending 2.75 on Nabokov who is a UFA at season's end - Luongo is actually only 2.6 million more of cap hit than Nabokov, so regardless of what they manage with Dipietro, I don't think it's unreasonable to see them having interest, particularly with so much talent developing in the system and poised for a move to a new arena.

Nabokov could make some sense as he'd give us a solid veteran backup until season's end, and then is a UFA, at which point we run with Lack next season assuming he's healthy.
Luo for Nelson, Pokka, 1st and throw in Nabokov?

With Tavares, Strome, Nielsen, and Bailey, imo Nelson is a very reasonable expectation. Pokka is a young Finnish right side prospect. Not terribly interested in their roster players... perhaps Okposo or Cizikas? A little difficult to find the right parts there.


I still think Nino has a heigher ceiling than Brock Nelson, and would likely be easier to obtain with the whole public " I don't want to be here" thing.

I would rather see Niederreiter, Hamonic, 2nd, Nabokov for Lou and ??
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#35 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:41 PM

But where does that leave the Islanders??? They have nothing moving forward. Nilsson, Poulin? These guys aren't the answer. Dipietro is almost 32 years old and still hasn't found his game! It's time for them to cut their loses. I'm not saying they have to get Luongo, but out of all the teams mentioned they should have the most interest.


I don't know about that neccisarily. Nilsson is a very good prospect and Poulin has already looked great. Either has a chance at the starting job really.

But there is likely 0 chance they trade Tavares honestly. We are talking about a guy who will be a top 5 player in this league (possibly top 3) for a long, long time.

If we wanted any serious shot at him, my guess is that they would want Kesler, Edler and probably+ or else Kesler, Luongo+ and for us to take on Dipietro. Tavares is one of the most valuable players in the league, especially to the Islanders who are building there entire franchise around him both on and off the ice.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 20 February 2013 - 11:42 PM.

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#36 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:46 PM

I still think Nino has a heigher ceiling than Brock Nelson, and would likely be easier to obtain with the whole public " I don't want to be here" thing.

I would rather see Niederreiter, Hamonic, 2nd, Nabokov for Lou and ??


Hamonic is extremely valuable. He's better than John Carlson IMO, I doubt they trade him for Lu.

If they were seriously interested. (Which I can't see unless we take Dipietro's contract) We should look for something along the lines of: Niederreiter, Nielsen, Nabokov.

That would be great for us, an A prospect, a great center that would help us now, and a veteran goaltender that we can have confidence in. Although they would likely want to exchange Dipietro with Nabokov, which is a no go for me right now. And I doubt the organization is keen on it either.
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#37 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:47 AM

Hamonic is extremely valuable. He's better than John Carlson IMO, I doubt they trade him for Lu.

If they were seriously interested. (Which I can't see unless we take Dipietro's contract) We should look for something along the lines of: Niederreiter, Nielsen, Nabokov.

That would be great for us, an A prospect, a great center that would help us now, and a veteran goaltender that we can have confidence in. Although they would likely want to exchange Dipietro with Nabokov, which is a no go for me right now. And I doubt the organization is keen on it either.


"Hamonic is extremely valuable. He's better than John Carlson IMO"

How? Carlson has more points, and a much better plus minus. much much better.
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#38 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:37 AM

"Hamonic is extremely valuable. He's better than John Carlson IMO"

How? Carlson has more points, and a much better plus minus. much much better.


Maybe not better (as I am a huge Carlson fan) but in the same category. He is already a key top 4 guy, and really with knowing the difference in the teams, I don't think =/- paints an accurate picture.

Either way he is still a very important Dman for them, and is going to be moving forward. Just as important as Carlson is to WSH. Can't see it happening.
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#39 ice orca

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:26 AM

It is a long way to go to get there, but we've had CH101 pick up the slack (HUFFY was trying for a while there too) with his fairly constant suggestions of Schneider trades. I think you're right though, maybe 7.0, but not much more than that. Here's hoping a trade comes and we get a great return before it comes to that though!

Haha i think Huffy opened the gas can and has been mia.
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#40 JensenFan2011

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:10 AM

This luongo thing is just stupid its been played out too long mg should just do petrovic ,1st and Theodore and get it it over with
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#41 TmanVan

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:05 AM

I don't know about that neccisarily. Nilsson is a very good prospect and Poulin has already looked great. Either has a chance at the starting job really.

But there is likely 0 chance they trade Tavares honestly. We are talking about a guy who will be a top 5 player in this league (possibly top 3) for a long, long time.

If we wanted any serious shot at him, my guess is that they would want Kesler, Edler and probably+ or else Kesler, Luongo+ and for us to take on Dipietro. Tavares is one of the most valuable players in the league, especially to the Islanders who are building there entire franchise around him both on and off the ice.


Nilsson or Poulin MIGHT have a chance at a back up roll. Saying they deserve a shot at being a starter is crazy. Have we learned nothing from watching Washington or Columbus this year? These guys need to be groomed into a number 1 spot. How would you feel if we appointed Eddie Lack our starter last season, or Cory Schneider 4-5 years ago?
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#42 oldnews

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:47 AM

I still think Nino has a heigher ceiling than Brock Nelson, and would likely be easier to obtain with the whole public " I don't want to be here" thing.

I would rather see Niederreiter, Hamonic, 2nd, Nabokov for Lou and ??


Most people likely would, but I wouldn't give that proposal the reality edge - and what we wind up with is a LW prospect and the need to move another blueliner (which you might have to include to get that return).

We should look for something along the lines of: Niederreiter, Nielsen, Nabokov.

That would be great for us, an A prospect, a great center that would help us now, and a veteran goaltender that we can have confidence in. Although they would likely want to exchange Dipietro with Nabokov, which is a no go for me right now. And I doubt the organization is keen on it either.

Surprised to see you also asking for Niederreiter and a center who is already a 50 point range nhl player (as well as Nabokov). That would be a significant return, but surprised you see that as realistic. Personally I think Nelson is better suited to our needs (in terms of physicality/3rd line C role, and contract/ELC cap hit), but Nielsen would do, if the Isles were willing.
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#43 canuckfan85

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:02 AM

Luongo Ballard, 2014 first

Carlson, Brower, Neuvirth, 2013 second.
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#44 zombieksa

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:26 AM

I sort of wish we made a trade with the leafs for franson. He's looking a lot more like when he was a predator. 9 pts and top ten +\-. Would have been a perfect RHD for elder.
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#45 Boudrias

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:27 AM

I think that the terrible start has pushed Tallon even more in the direction of patience - he doesn't see his current roster as a realistic contender, and he's not going to get hasty and compromise their future, when it's much brighter than the present, and the team hasn't been healthy or performing - I think it's even harder to part with assets when they are in the middle of a setback.

I agree. Tallon is enough of a hockey man to realize he is a few years away from serious contention. As long as his fan base can handle another lost season he should hang on to what he has. This might not be an accurate assessment and he might be forced into a deal.

I feel T-Bay is a likely partner as their roster is more ready to challenge. Their core is getting older.

The Capitals are an org that might make an irrational move as the clock tics on their GM's tenure. Does a Lou deal turn that club around? Whatever the problem there it goes beyond their goal tending.

I haven't written off SJ either as they sink in the standings. Their core group is aging as well. Could better goal tending pull their season out?
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#46 Boudrias

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

Gillis has two bullets to fire, Lou and Ballard. How much of the blue line experimentation has to do with exploring options?
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#47 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:47 AM

I don't know about that neccisarily. Nilsson is a very good prospect and Poulin has already looked great. Either has a chance at the starting job really.

But there is likely 0 chance they trade Tavares honestly. We are talking about a guy who will be a top 5 player in this league (possibly top 3) for a long, long time.

If we wanted any serious shot at him, my guess is that they would want Kesler, Edler and probably+ or else Kesler, Luongo+ and for us to take on Dipietro. Tavares is one of the most valuable players in the league, especially to the Islanders who are building there entire franchise around him both on and off the ice.


NYI
Kesler
Schneider
1st

VAN
Tavares

Edited by debluvscanucks, 22 February 2013 - 11:42 AM.

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#48 oldnews

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:48 AM

I agree. Tallon is enough of a hockey man to realize he is a few years away from serious contention. As long as his fan base can handle another lost season he should hang on to what he has. This might not be an accurate assessment and he might be forced into a deal.

I feel T-Bay is a likely partner as their roster is more ready to challenge. Their core is getting older.

The Capitals are an org that might make an irrational move as the clock tics on their GM's tenure. Does a Lou deal turn that club around? Whatever the problem there it goes beyond their goal tending.

I haven't written off SJ either as they sink in the standings. Their core group is aging as well. Could better goal tending pull their season out?


I don't think so. They've only scored 10 goals in their last 8 games - doubt Luo could help them there - their goaltending has actually been pretty good. I don't think they have the depth or character to sustain the start they had. I think they should face the music - they are prospect poor, lack depth, and their core is, well, if I were them, Joe would be on the block.
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#49 oldnews

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:55 AM

NYI
Kesler
Schneider
1st

VAN
Tavares


You make some of Milbury's moves look moderate.
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#50 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:00 PM

You make some of Milbury's moves look moderate.


Just curious: who wins that trade in your opinion?

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 21 February 2013 - 12:21 PM.

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#51 thad

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:34 PM

You make some of Milbury's moves look moderate.


although i would much rather trade lulongo, i would actually do that move haha. i would only trade schneids for another future young superstar, if not then luongo is the one gone. we gotta get rid of a goalie anyways so kesler and a 1st for tavares? sure i'll take it. just imagine if we had tavares 2 weeks ago when kesler was out. i love kes but tavares will be a top 5 player in the league for the majority of his career..... kudos ch101, you finally got me but it will never happen

i would do it
islanders would probably not
kesler would probably not accept
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#52 oldnews

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:39 PM

although i would much rather trade lulongo, i would actually do that move haha. i would only trade schneids for another future young superstar, if not then luongo is the one gone. we gotta get rid of a goalie anyways so kesler and a 1st for tavares? sure i'll take it. just imagine if we had tavares 2 weeks ago when kesler was out. i love kes but tavares will be a top 5 player in the league for the majority of his career..... kudos ch101, you finally got me but it will never happen

i would do it
islanders would probably not
kesler would probably not accept


That's where I see serious fault in the reasoning. It's essentially a Schneider giveaway.
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#53 Boudrias

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:49 PM

I don't think so. They've only scored 10 goals in their last 8 games - doubt Luo could help them there - their goaltending has actually been pretty good. I don't think they have the depth or character to sustain the start they had. I think they should face the music - they are prospect poor, lack depth, and their core is, well, if I were them, Joe would be on the block.

They can move Joe as long as it isn't to Vancouver! IMHO that is why the Canucks are at a crossroads. I do not want them to end up like SJ, aging with little upside. The Lou and Ballard trades will determine the next 10 years.
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#54 The Bookie

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:51 PM

I sort of wish we made a trade with the leafs for franson. He's looking a lot more like when he was a predator. 9 pts and top ten +\-. Would have been a perfect RHD for elder.


Yeah. I've watched quite a few Leaf games recently and he's been their most consistent players. Very calm and steady, he's a lot like Tanev but with a bit more offensive upside.
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#55 thad

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:58 PM

That's where I see serious fault in the reasoning. It's essentially a Schneider giveaway.


yeah that sucks but i think the benefits are too great to turn it down. i dont really see it as a givaway myself, i think its perfect value. Kesler is a 1b center and schneider looks like a future star goalie. JT is a superstar though, once dank and hank are gone we might not see one for another 15 years. He'd most likely end up being the best player we ever had if he stayed his whole career.

It changes the dynamic of our team as well. gives us another look to try in this closing window of ours and might make it so it doesnt ever close at all.

jensen-tavares-kassian? lol tell me that doesnt give you a boner
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#56 oldnews

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:10 PM

Just curious: who wins that trade in your opinion?


Ok - I have the day off, so I'll waste 5 minutes responding.

I was curious what the hell you meant by trading a river, but now that you've editted it, the idea that you were giving away a river may have been more appropriate.

I'm not surprised that you think Tavares is worth a top notch NHL starter (oh that's right, in your opinion Schneider has been propped up by Luo from the bench), a Selke winner and a 1st round pick.

Tavares has scored .85 ppg in his young career. - and he was the NHL's first star last week - that ought to be enough to convince a team to sell the farm (or a river) for him. But he's also a player who gets the highest percentage of offensive zone starts on his team, all the favourable matchups they can manage, gets 23 minutes a game, gets 70% of their powerplay time, does not kill a whiff of penalties, doesn't block a shot, does not hit anything - a prototypical one way forward. With either Hank or Tavares on the second line, those dynamics change considerably, as do their numbers.

As good as Tavares is, suggesting that he is worth Kesler, Schneider and a first is an insane over-valuation, or a ridiculous undervaluation of the Canucks (judging by your reductive comments about Schneider and Kesler, I'll take it that the latter is the case).
For that price, I want a perenial, hands down Norris no brainer.
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#57 oldnews

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:15 PM

They can move Joe as long as it isn't to Vancouver! IMHO that is why the Canucks are at a crossroads. I do not want them to end up like SJ, aging with little upside. The Lou and Ballard trades will determine the next 10 years.


Couldn't agree more about Joe - would never suggest bringing him here. He's the player I'd take last if I'm dealing with San Jose and the first if I'd move if I were San Jose. I'd cash him in for youth and move that 7 million cap hit fast, before he gets any closer to UFA status.
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#58 oldnews

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:21 PM

Yeah. I've watched quite a few Leaf games recently and he's been their most consistent players. Very calm and steady, he's a lot like Tanev but with a bit more offensive upside.


Leads their team with a +23.7 relative corsi (while dead even at 50% offensive zone starts). Liked him and Frattin in a deal, but we all know how quickly they escalate the value of their players over there...
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#59 thad

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:55 PM

Ok - I have the day off, so I'll waste 5 minutes responding.

I was curious what the hell you meant by trading a river, but now that you've editted it, the idea that you were giving away a river may have been more appropriate.

I'm not surprised that you think Tavares is worth a top notch NHL starter (oh that's right, in your opinion Schneider has been propped up by Luo from the bench), a Selke winner and a 1st round pick.

Tavares has scored .85 ppg in his young career. - and he was the NHL's first star last week - that ought to be enough to convince a team to sell the farm (or a river) for him. But he's also a player who gets the highest percentage of offensive zone starts on his team, all the favourable matchups they can manage, gets 23 minutes a game, gets 70% of their powerplay time, does not kill a whiff of penalties, doesn't block a shot, does not hit anything - a prototypical one way forward. With either Hank or Tavares on the second line, those dynamics change considerably, as do their numbers.

As good as Tavares is, suggesting that he is worth Kesler, Schneider and a first is an insane over-valuation, or a ridiculous undervaluation of the Canucks (judging by your reductive comments about Schneider and Kesler, I'll take it that the latter is the case).
For that price, I want a perenial, hands down Norris no brainer.


cmon oldnews, i think your grossly undervaluing JT here. he should be the equivelant of a norris winner in a couple years. We're talking about a guy that has a potential ceiling of best player in the league when he reaches his prime. Developed under us, he may actually reach it.

obviously that package would be hard to swallow (no homo lol) but imo getting a 22yr old john tavares would be a no brainer.
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#60 theminister

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:00 PM

cmon oldnews, i think your grossly undervaluing JT here. he should be the equivelant of a norris winner in a couple years. We're talking about a guy that has a potential ceiling of best player in the league when he reaches his prime. Developed under us, he may actually reach it.

obviously that package would be hard to swallow (no homo lol) but imo getting a 22yr old john tavares would be a no brainer.


Could totally see Tavares winning the Norris.

Solid argument.
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2013 CDCGML CUP CHAMPIONS





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