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Keith Ballard may stay a forward


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#61 brownky

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:59 PM

Maybe Gillis hasn't traded him because of his character......has anyone ever thought of that?

And the comment by Bieksa - joking or not - says it all about AV to me.


That was what I picked up as well; even jokes have some basis in truth or fact.

#62 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:16 PM

No Plus mius is the ultimate stat when judging a defenceman. The true great d men all have ridiculous +/- stats. Why? Because they take it personally when they get scored on. They worry more about stopping a goal, then scoring one. Thats what a true great defenceman does. He not only has all the skill and hockey sense to be an elite scorer, he uses those skills to completely shut down the best of the best. Orr's +/- stats were off the charts, Lidstrom's as well. It is not a team stat, it is an individual one.


I am sorry to tell you but you are totally wrong about +/- being an individual stat. You can stop all the goals you want but if your team does not score goals you cannot have a good +/-. It is the very nature of the stat that you need success on both sides of the puck as a team. It is largely based on how strong of an offensive team/ weak defensive team you play on and has little to do with individual skill.

Orr and Lidstrom also played on very good offensive teams. If they played on weak teams that could not score and had average +/- numbers as a result does that make them any less talented as individual players?

#63 CanuckLeaf

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:21 PM

I am sorry to tell you but you are totally wrong about +/- being an individual stat. You can stop all the goals you want but if your team does not score goals you cannot have a good +/-. It is the very nature of the stat that you need success on both sides of the puck as a team. It is largely based on how strong of an offensive team/ weak defensive team you play on and has little to do with individual skill.

Orr and Lidstrom also played on very good offensive teams. If they played on weak teams that could not score and had average +/- numbers as a result does that make them any less talented as individual players?

Well said, If Ballard was on the first D pairing than the Sedins would make his +/- look pretty good.

#64 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:27 PM

Yes, we all know that stats are irrelevant when they don't support your argument.

The post I was responding to said that he was scratched for "no reason". Minus 4 in two games is definitely a "reason". You may not consider it a good reason, but that's another debate.


Stats are not irrelevant But a 2 game sample size for using +/- is too limited to suggest he deserved a scratch considering how our other D were playing at the time as well. If Ballard was the only player playing badly those two games - which is not at all the case the whole team pretty much sucked and played poorly - then you could maybe see the coach sitting him. When the entire D plays like crap and he is singled out despite playing better than most of the other D the entire season, then it is not realistic at all. It is just an excuse then. One that people who dislike him cling to in order to justify him being a scratch. Two of those 4 minuses were fluke plays that 9 times out of 10 do not end up in the net.

+/- is possibly the most useless stat there is to suggest a player is individually good or bad defensively.

#65 Specter's Vengeance

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:28 PM

No. He just means AV hasn't complimented anyone in four years.
Nothing to see here.


Read it a few more times... Is that your final answer, friend?

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#66 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:30 PM

Well said, If Ballard was on the first D pairing than the Sedins would make his +/- look pretty good.


Exactly. Playing with non offensive bottom 6 guys and playing 3rd pairing safe style D whenever they are on the ice is not conducive to superior +/- numbers no matter who the player is.

#67 brownky

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:40 PM

Exactly. Playing with non offensive bottom 6 guys and playing 3rd pairing safe style D whenever they are on the ice is not conducive to superior +/- numbers no matter who the player is.


Playing with Gretzky or Gino. Who is more likely to give you 'better' +/- numbers.

+/- is a good stat for long term trends and evaluation as a line unit when met with reasonable expectations. It's a horrible, useless and misleading stat for one guy, for a week's worth of games. It's not so useless when you look at it from a season-to-season stat, even for one guy.

#68 thehamburglar

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:00 PM

I think he's one of my favourite guys on our team how he does whatever is asked, and does it well in my opinion.
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#69 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:00 PM

Exactly. Playing with non offensive bottom 6 guys and playing 3rd pairing safe style D whenever they are on the ice is not conducive to superior +/- numbers no matter who the player is.


I reiterate (because you either don't understand, or are being deliberately obtuse) his plus/minus was TWICE as bad as Andrew Alberts'....

...and I only posted it in response to another post that said he was scratched for NO REASON... (caps used because this browser doesn't allow for text editing)
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#70 snolan

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:02 PM

Aside from going back and playing D and creating a muck occasionally Ballard looks great as a forward. He is aggresive, has great speed and a good pass - makes for a great 3rd liner in my opinon.

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#71 GTVic

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:59 PM

If they trade Luongo then he's the backup goalie...

#72 Mad_Duck

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

If they trade Luongo then he's the backup goalie...


...lets in one bad goal, then decapitates hiimself after trying to break his paddle on the post afterwards.
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#73 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:40 PM

Too bad Booth wasn't healthy, we could get him to play D. Maybe the role switch would get them better at the things they seem to be lacking on since they've arrived in Vancouver. <_<

Booth's defensive play is abysmal and I recall a Ballard that actually used to be able to score and contribute offensively on the back end... Oh well, at least Keith is getting some time out there- even if it is at forward. lol

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#74 canuck73_3

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:02 PM

I reiterate (because you either don't understand, or are being deliberately obtuse) his plus/minus was TWICE as bad as Andrew Alberts'....

...and I only posted it in response to another post that said he was scratched for NO REASON... (caps used because this browser doesn't allow for text editing)


He is just of the opinion the great Keith Ballard can do no wrong.


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#75 Canuck hero

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:12 PM

I wouldn't mind it at all, but I doubt that we'll have room when Kes returns with Kassian

ballard is better than kassian by far....
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#76 RobberLuongo

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:39 PM

Semin just signed a 5 year extension, making him $7 million a year and is touted as "the Russian Sniper" and has a whopping 8 goals so far this year.


That's a pretty biased way of phrasing it. He has 30 points in 31 games with a +15.
"The more saves you make, the more they rally around you. And you do whatever it takes to keep them believing. That's what a city can do for a goalie, and a goalie can do for a city"

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#77 Heretic

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:48 PM

That's a pretty biased way of phrasing it. He has 30 points in 31 games with a +15.


Yes it is, so is his moniker - that is, he's paid to score, The Russian Sniper. If it was "The Russian Play maker" then fine.

My original reply was to someone making a snark remark about paying someone $4 million who can't score goals...

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#78 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:13 PM

That's a pretty biased way of phrasing it. He has 30 points in 31 games with a +15.


Wish we signed him, he gets too much criticism. He's not a floater at all.

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#79 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:19 PM

I reiterate (because you either don't understand, or are being deliberately obtuse) his plus/minus was TWICE as bad as Andrew Alberts'....

...and I only posted it in response to another post that said he was scratched for NO REASON... (caps used because this browser doesn't allow for text editing)


I am willing to bet that at some point this season another dman's +/- was twice as bad as Ballard's in a game or two as well. So what?

He was scratched for NO GOOD REASON then.

#80 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:21 PM

He is just of the opinion the great Keith Ballard can do no wrong.


Nope. I am of the opinion that +/- over a two game period is a useless indicator of an individual player's play when the entire team plays like absolute crap.

#81 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:33 PM

No Plus mius is the ultimate stat when judging a defenceman. The true great d men all have ridiculous +/- stats. Why? Because they take it personally when they get scored on. They worry more about stopping a goal, then scoring one. Thats what a true great defenceman does. He not only has all the skill and hockey sense to be an elite scorer, he uses those skills to completely shut down the best of the best. Orr's +/- stats were off the charts, Lidstrom's as well. It is not a team stat, it is an individual one.


You mean like Marek Malik, Ian White and Jack McIlhargey?

+/- is often misleading, but the eye test doesn't lie. Ballard got caught out of position badly for several games leading up to his benching. Glad AV sat him out when he did. With the way the Canucks were going, he couldn't afford to give him Ballard a "chance" to track even more opponents like a blind Irishman just out of the pub.

#82 GrogZilla

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:49 AM

Ballard's a character guy who likes Vancouver & wants to be a Canuck. He doesn't complain & is willing to do whatever is asked of him.
The only complaint anyone seems to have of him is his contract.
Is it possible for the Canucks to buy him out over the summer & then resign him at a lower cap hit?
I'd love Ballard at 2 mill a year. A great #6 D man with the versatility to be a 3rd line winger.


#83 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:01 AM

I am willing to bet that at some point this season another dman's +/- was twice as bad as Ballard's in a game or two as well. So what?

He was scratched for NO GOOD REASON then.

Bear in mind that at the time there were two NHL quality defenders who hadn't played a game yet, waiting in the wings. Whether or not it was a good reason or not is your take, but not necessarily everyone else's. However, if the original post that I responded to had stated that he was scratched for an "unfair" reason, or something along those lines, I would not have responded.

As far as your first sentence goes, it's possible, but as I pointed out to you in an earlier discussion, the top three guys have all proven themselves in the past.

Edited by RUPERTKBD, 28 March 2013 - 10:30 AM.

Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#84 riffraff

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:14 AM

Too bad Booth wasn't healthy, we could get him to play D. Maybe the role switch would get them better at the things they seem to be lacking on since they've arrived in Vancouver. <_<

Booth's defensive play is abysmal and I recall a Ballard that actually used to be able to score and contribute offensively on the back end... Oh well, at least Keith is getting some time out there- even if it is at forward. lol


Ballard brains>>>>>>>>>booth brains
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
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#85 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:35 PM

Ballard's a character guy who likes Vancouver & wants to be a Canuck. He doesn't complain & is willing to do whatever is asked of him.
The only complaint anyone seems to have of him is his contract.
Is it possible for the Canucks to buy him out over the summer & then resign him at a lower cap hit?
I'd love Ballard at 2 mill a year. A great #6 D man with the versatility to be a 3rd line winger.


You cannot sign a player you bought out for one calender year.....so the short answer is no it is not possible.

#86 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:37 PM

You mean like Marek Malik, Ian White and Jack McIlhargey?

+/- is often misleading, but the eye test doesn't lie. Ballard got caught out of position badly for several games leading up to his benching. Glad AV sat him out when he did. With the way the Canucks were going, he couldn't afford to give him Ballard a "chance" to track even more opponents like a blind Irishman just out of the pub.


Alex Edler says hi.....he has been worse all season long than anyone else and for several games did not even add any offense to offset it.

Again, I don't question Ballard getting benched for any reason other than no other D on the team EVER does , not matter how poorly they ply.

#87 Hairy Kneel

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:49 AM

I missed Ballards energy against Col and 'defense first' style of play..our forwards (Gordon Ebbett and Pinzo) seem to play smaller and softer than Ballard...and I think the team plays better 'for' him knowing all he has put up with to get into the roster..I think he has more game savvy that he adds to the team when he's in.

#88 Vansicle

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:16 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if he were dealt before the deadline given how many healthy scratches he's had of late.
I think it would be best, too, despite liking what he brings to the team.

Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#89 Edlerberry

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:01 PM

Or be scratched so Andrew Gordon can keep his spot...

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