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Kassian as a hockey player


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#211 sgt. grumbles

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:17 PM

The main problem with Kassian is his effort level. We've all seen glimpses of his outstanding vision and talent. But too often you'll find him floating, hoping the puck will come to him instead of engaging in the play and making himself useful. You can't teach effort, the drive has to come from within him. Let's just hope he can find his second gear in the playoffs.


I think its a lack of confidence. He's afraid of getting caught up ice and when he has the puck he looks flustered.
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#212 Nino

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:31 PM

I think its a lack of confidence. He's afraid of getting caught up ice and when he has the puck he looks flustered.


So is he also afraid of getting caught in his own end, as he will not back check?
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#213 Nino

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:39 PM

Gee, that was hurtful. I may never post on the internet ever again.






Fun fact: Hodgson dropped from being a +9 player in 71 games with Vancouver to a -3 with Buffalo in only 65 games (over this year and last). This means Hodgson has been -12 since the trade.

Kassian has been -8 (52 games).

Or, to look at it another way, this season Hodgson has been on the ice for 37 goals scored against Buffalo (about 27% of the goals scored against them), while Kassian has been on the ice for 20 of the goals scored against the Canucks (about 15%).

I'm sure that this can (and will) be explained away as Buffalo being a poorer defensive team than the Canucks

Anyhoo, I get why you are laughing maniacally. If you want to assume that Hodgson will get over 700 points over his career, we can also assume that he may well be over -150 for his career. YIKES!!!


regards,
G.


Ok your full of it????

CH is a -5 this year and was a +1 last year using his buffalo and vancouver combined totals. I think you did your math wrong.... LOL

The problem with zack is he is a - player that's responsible for his - more then any player on the ice.

Edit: sorry your right I misread what you said.

Edited by Nino, 20 April 2013 - 03:43 PM.

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#214 sting

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:44 PM

I've honestly never seen so many excuses for any professional athlete before. Have you clowns forgotten that this is a Stanley Cup or bust team?

Everyone acting like Kassian is some beast out there and it's the coach holding back his progress.

Let's ignore the fact that there are a lot of younger players than him contributing to their teams. Ignore that he's not actually a beast, and is invisible on most nights. Ignore that despite his size he loses most puck battles. Ignore that he can't play in his own zone and turns the puck over consistently. And most importantly ignore the fact that by the time (if ever) Kassian turns into a good player, this team will be too old to do anything.

I have nothing against Kassian, nobody hopes he proves me wrong more than me. But I do have a problem with delusional fans, you're giving the rest of us a bad name.


Zack Kassian NHL level talents.......snap shot, speed, vision, soft hands, devastating hitter and fighter, strong low post game and huge.
Not there yet.......consistency, intensity, defensive awareness, decision making.
Hmmmmnnn.....sounds like 95% of young players issues that aren't lottery picks. The intensity is the only one that is concerning and as mentioned thousands of times before big bodied power forward types take longer. Did you expect John Tavares in return for a stumpy slow skating ppg player??
I do agree that Zack needs to earn his playing time and the coach would be an idiot to reward his work ethic inconsistency with increased ice time. Not sure i understand the reason why you wouldn't want this guys hands and size in front of the net on the pp though.
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#215 CanuckRow

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:05 PM

How do you know he asked for a trade in jrs and during the cup run? Not that I don't believe you.

He asked for it twice during the season of the year we went to the cup.
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#216 Baggins

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:09 PM

For the record, I don't like Cody. I don't want Kassian (or any canuck) to fail. But lets at least agree to facts that Hodgson this year is a better goal scorer than ANYONE on our team and Kassian is playing AHL level hockey.

I never blame Kassian for not being NHL ready. I'm simply arguing with the fans that say he's a good player or that defend that trade. I've always said I hope Kassian proves me wrong.


Let's say you have a power forward with good size, skill, plays physical, and is willing to fight. Would you trade him straight across for a forward of equal skill who doesn't have the size, doesn't play physical and stays away from the rough stuff? I'll go out on a limb and say you wouldn't make that trade.

This is the stupidity of comparing Cody's skill level (or points) to Kassian. We gave up skill in a redundant position for the addition of other attributes (with potential) to fill a need that was lacking. It doesn't matter what points Cody puts up. There wasn't a role suited to him with Kesler and Henrik ahead of him here. Nor was he ever going to fill the role Kassian is expected to fill. Different roles, different expectations.
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#217 TimberWolf

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:15 PM

Let's say you have a power forward with good size, skill, plays physical, and is willing to fight. Would you trade him straight across for a forward of equal skill who doesn't have the size, doesn't play physical and stays away from the rough stuff? I'll go out on a limb and say you wouldn't make that trade.

This is the stupidity of comparing Cody's skill level (or points) to Kassian. We gave up skill in a redundant position for the addition of other attributes (with potential) to fill a need that was lacking. It doesn't matter what points Cody puts up. There wasn't a role suited to him with Kesler and Henrik ahead of him here. Nor was he ever going to fill the role Kassian is expected to fill. Different roles, different expectations.


Also if we need a Cody this year, we arguably have a veteran version of it in Roy anyways.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#218 Danthecanucksfan

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:19 PM

I love Zack, can't wait to see what he can do in a full season next year.
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#219 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:25 PM

great post

I agree that at the moment, Kassian is somewhat useless. I also remember the same things being said about the Sedins in the early carreers.... just food for thought.

When this trade was made, I didnt expect to see what we had in Kassian for 2-3 years and my expectations havent changed. I still think theres alot of potential with this kid.

Unfortunatley the Canucks are in win now mode and he's just not looking ready to make a consistent contribution to the team. Its just too bad that GMMG didnt realize this untill recently and his bid to pick up a veteran replacement in Clowe and Torres fell short.

Things might change in the postseason... But my bet is that he falls short, and is demoted to playing few minutes, or possibly scratched all together.

I dont blame Vineault... Hes in charge of doing whatever he needs to do to help this team win now... Playing a un-seasoned youngster whom doesnt look like he's getting rid of the youngster mistakes any time soon is not the best coarse of action if you want to win.

All this being said, Id really like to see Schroeder again. He's playing extremely well in Chicago right now... easily the best he's been since turning pro.


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#220 Nino

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:25 PM

I love Zack, can't wait to see what he can do in a full season next year.


Playing for the wolves?
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#221 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:34 PM

Playing for the wolves?


and it's post like these that let everybody know that Nino should not be taken seriously.
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#222 Lancaster

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:46 PM

People aren't mad that Hodgson got traded for Kassian. People are mad because the Canucks ONLY got Kassian.
Gillis traded Hodgson at a severe discount and the Sabres traded Kassian with a high premium.
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#223 Nino

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:16 PM

and it's post like these that let everybody know that Nino should not be taken seriously.


You nailed that one, I wasn't being serious.

But on the serious side, the way zack is playing now the thought of him playing a full season scares the hell out of me. I wouldn't mind seeing a full season of Schroeder... Well because he actually looks good. ;)
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#224 Lui's Knob

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:08 PM

Kassian a next year is do or die for him. Plays badly again going another 20 games without a goal and he'll be deemed the biggest bust since sandlak, bernier and oreskovich
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#225 Butters Stoch

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:12 PM

As of right now, he is awful but he's got potential. Only problem is potential isn't gonna help us right now while our window is still barely open.
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#226 Gollumpus

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:13 PM

The problem with zack is he is a - player that's responsible for his - more then any player on the ice.


I would disagree. I have seen a lot of mistakes by Hodgson (from this season) which have directly led to very good scoring chances, if not a goal. Look at the videos on the Sabres site. You'll see a lot of very un-even defensive play by Hodgson.

Right now Hodgson is supposed to be the better offensive player, and he will very likely score more points than Kassian over his career. If anyone believes that people who support the trade for Kassian are un-aware of this, then they are not thinking things through.

The Canucks traded away an asset that was less valuable to them now, for an asset which will be more valuable to them in the near future. (ASSUME ALL THE USUAL DANCES OF PRO/CON ARGUMENTS IN THIS SPACE).

The thing of it is, Hodgson should also be "better" at his defensive game than Kassian. He is older. He was drafted higher. He came from a very strong defense system. Kassian is a player type which is supposed to develop slower (the power forwards take more time concept). All of these things are in Hodgson's favour, and yet he sucks in the defensive game compared to Kassian.


regards,
G.
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Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#227 Nino

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:29 PM

I would disagree. I have seen a lot of mistakes by Hodgson (from this season) which have directly led to very good scoring chances, if not a goal. Look at the videos on the Sabres site. You'll see a lot of very un-even defensive play by Hodgson.

Right now Hodgson is supposed to be the better offensive player, and he will very likely score more points than Kassian over his career. If anyone believes that people who support the trade for Kassian are un-aware of this, then they are not thinking things through.

The Canucks traded away an asset that was less valuable to them now, for an asset which will be more valuable to them in the near future. (ASSUME ALL THE USUAL DANCES OF PRO/CON ARGUMENTS IN THIS SPACE).

The thing of it is, Hodgson should also be "better" at his defensive game than Kassian. He is older. He was drafted higher. He came from a very strong defense system. Kassian is a player type which is supposed to develop slower (the power forwards take more time concept). All of these things are in Hodgson's favour, and yet he sucks in the defensive game compared to Kassian.


regards,
G.


I havnt watched Cody I'm just talking about zacks play, I'm not comparing there play.
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#228 Gollumpus

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:37 PM

I havnt watched Cody I'm just talking about zacks play, I'm not comparing there play.


You should check out the Sabres' site, chum. They have videos of all the goals and significant scoring chances. It's a bit of an eye opener. Maybe some time after the Canucks game is over, of course.

regards,
G.
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Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#229 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:51 PM

There is definitely something to be desired with this kid..

Certainly doesn't look like he's improved since short stint in Buffalo.
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#230 canucks#01fan

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:24 PM

Note: bertuzzi was 25 when he cracked 40 points for the first time

People develop at their own pace
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#231 bobopan

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:49 PM

Im growing more and more frustrated with him. Whether or not he is scoring at the very least i expected him to be physical out there but too many games he's been a no show. The biggest disappointment for me was the St. Louis game. Playoff type game and Kassian was nowhere to be seen. If that's how he's gonna play he may as well be sitting in the press box.
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#232 King Heffy

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:51 PM

I'm not only using statistics, I've also watched every game and seen him be a liability on most nights. I'm sorry to have brought in something factual like stats into this debate.

Let me take this down to your level. Kassian is a double threat, no offense and no defense.


Again, tiny sample size. Take an actual course in statistics and then get back to me on whether any of those stats are statistically relevant.
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#233 KelVintage

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:22 PM

Why does this thread get 6 pages and the 420 thread only has 1... smh


It's awesome, that's why!
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#234 frazzY

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:24 PM

Haters gonna hate
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#235 KelVintage

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:27 PM

ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE,

THE MOST TERRIBLE PLAYER,

FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY MOST DIGGITY DIGGITY,

MOST CORRUPTABLE SOUL

Edit: Why am I yelling, even I don't know ... I'm as retarded as this thread but hey

if it feels good do it ... right


Well, at least you know you're mentally challenged.
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#236 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:31 PM

He looked better tonight.
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#237 oldnews

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:43 PM

Love the Zack.
Some very good backchecking tonight - notable actually. His underlying numbers indicate a responsible young player.
Another game where he played smart, mistake free hockey.
A couple nice passes - one sweet setup where he stopped up on the halfboards and found the trailer wide open for a point shot - has shown his good vision repeatedly this season.
Very rarely does something that hurts his team.
Complainers gonna complain, but what you're seeing is a hell of a young hockey player in the making.
A rookie folks. Try a little perspective on for size.
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#238 KelVintage

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:51 PM

For the record, I don't like Cody. I don't want Kassian (or any canuck) to fail. But lets at least agree to facts that Hodgson this year is a better goal scorer than ANYONE on our team and Kassian is playing AHL level hockey.

I never blame Kassian for not being NHL ready. I'm simply arguing with the fans that say he's a good player or that defend that trade. I've always said I hope Kassian proves me wrong.


This. Hodgson's stats once again. Terrible defensively so hopefully he works on that part of his game, but he puts up points. More goals than either Sedin, who are obviously more experienced than him.


SEASON GP G A P +/-

45 15 17 32 -5

Edited by KelVintage, 20 April 2013 - 10:52 PM.

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#239 Merci

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:51 PM

I really think he's taking all there is to learn in and in and in.

He has this lack of intensity because he is just processing so many things at once to understand the professional level of the game.

He seems like he's trying to figure out how to play smarter not harder, once he isn't making stupid mistakes you'll see the effort more.

How do you have energy and intensity when your 2nd guessing every decision on the ice.
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Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#240 KelVintage

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:52 PM

Gee, that was hurtful. I may never post on the internet ever again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r0HTV7WkQk




Fun fact: Hodgson dropped from being a +9 player in 71 games with Vancouver to a -3 with Buffalo in only 65 games (over this year and last). This means Hodgson has been -12 since the trade.

Kassian has been -8 (52 games).

Or, to look at it another way, this season Hodgson has been on the ice for 37 goals scored against Buffalo (about 27% of the goals scored against them), while Kassian has been on the ice for 20 of the goals scored against the Canucks (about 15%).

I'm sure that this can (and will) be explained away as Buffalo being a poorer defensive team than the Canucks

Anyhoo, I get why you are laughing maniacally. If you want to assume that Hodgson will get over 700 points over his career, we can also assume that he may well be over -150 for his career. YIKES!!!


regards,
G.


Let's go with your prediction and say Hodgson is on track for -150 for his career. Possible, but he'll have over 700 points.

By Kassian's rate, he'll have around 100 points in his entire career and be around -50.

Yeah...I think any intelligent person knows who to choose. Hodgson is already well on his way to developing into a great player. Kassian is light years behind him. If Kassian does develop into a useful player, by that time the Sedins may already be gone and we'll be in a slight rebuild phase whereas Hodgson could have helped us throughout the years, particularly in the regular season.
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