A call by Ujjal Dosanjh/others to have mandatory education for immigrants

[CBH1926]

What will happen to her is undoubtedly wrong to me but like some people in this thread, anyone there can shake their head and tell her to just integrate into Saudi culture or get the hell out.

If your expectation of immigrants coming here is that they should think and value what you do, then you better get ready to wear the niqab next time in Saudi without questioning or else you're a hypocrite. The road is apparently only one way though it seems to a lot of Canadians.

[CBH1926]

So you're saying we should emulate Saudi Arabia's position on cultural assimilation?

[ilduce39]

I dunno, I think a little pamphlet saying it's not okay to murder your wife / daughter in law if she wants to leave you isn't overly assimilationist.

[GLASSJAW]

I dunno, I think a little pamphlet saying it's not okay to murder your wife / daughter in law if she wants to leave you isn't overly assimilationist.

[MANGO]

if you are coming to Canada, it is because you want to be part of Canada. Not so you can change this country into something else. Then it ceases to be Canada. Yes , you can be anything you want in your own home. Same rights every other person in this country has. But this country is already bending over backwards for immigrants, and they should feel lucky to be able to come here. What about me, euro-Caucasoid male, born and raised here. what happens to my Canada? I don't get a special interest group. I just get to pay for everyone else's.......

Not to single anyone out but. hypothetically, If you are Russian, and you are lobbing to make this country more Russian, then you should go back to Russia....because this is Canada, not Russia. Clearly, you don't like Canada as much as you like Russia, and made a mistake coming here.

[hudson bay rules]

Immigrants to Canada

[ilduce39]

yeah, but you wouldn't like it if someone said you had to be a homophobe if you went to russia, now would you? hypocrite

[VICanucksfan5551]

Saudi Arabia is absolute monarchy and has no similarities with democracy like Canada.

Also king Abdullah has to comply with Sharia law as well.

To answer your question, no Canada should not emulate their position.

[-DLC-]

What will happen to her is undoubtedly wrong to me but like some people in this thread, anyone there can shake their head and tell her to just integrate into Saudi culture or get the hell out.

If your expectation of immigrants coming here is that they should think and value what you do, then you better get ready to wear the niqab next time in Saudi without questioning or else you're a hypocrite. The road is apparently only one way though it seems to a lot of Canadians.

I think the point being missed here is this (bolded print). Not that people have to DO it (what people do/value here), just that they understand and respect it (too). So I don't think it's about the expectation that people throw on some skinny jeans and a concert tee and "fit in/look like the rest of us"...it's about accepting those who do (dress, think, behave differently). As human beings, hopefully there is some commonality regarding values and adopting some new ideas isn't a bad thing or anything to shut down. Why would you? Growth comes through learning and that applies to everyone, including immigrants.

In a sense of community, it's important to strive to learn about and embrace our neighbours, not just move in beside them. To understand them as different but not isolate ourselves from them because they are. Not a requirement because, sure, some people are loners and privacy is important to them...they don't necessarily want to include others in their lives. But, for those interested in that feeling of community and villages raising children, it's an important part of that. It does make you safer and more connected if you have a neighbourhood watch...if you have each other's backs. So this is part of it...in learning ABOUT one another we also break down myths, misconceptions, barriers.

The more we are "opposed" to things and view them in a negative light instead of extracting anything positive we can out of them, the less we expand our own boundaries. Be open to the thought...I think that's step one. When we close doors because "why should we have to" it really doesn't allow for much growth.

There shouldn't be resistance to "learn" and that appears to be the aim here. Because, in learning, we can then embrace things that are strange to us instead of simply misunderstanding them. Criticizing them.

Violence against women is not ok here, so I have no problem with that being mandatory learning before entrance. Period. Nothing wrong with making sure that message is understood, loud and clear. Cultures differ but airing on the side of protecting people can't really be argued.

[ilduce39]

They stopped shipping the mail order brides

[Common sense]

As long as laws aren't broken and personal rights aren't infringed, it's deplorable to force people to assimilate like this. Quebec germ spreading it seems

[etsen3]

Isn't it kind of hard to define a specific set of "Canadian values"? Most things that we would consider "universal values" are already written into law/bill of rights. Obviously it makes sense to make sure immigrants know and follow these laws. But it's hard to go further than that as one of the so-called "Canadian-values" is to let people live their lives as they want. Therefore there are thousands of different types of people in Canada, all with separate values and customs.

I agree with making sure immigrants are aware of things that are illegal in Canada, that may be acceptable in their own countries. Things such as domestic violence, homophobia, discrimination, etc. I also agree with making sure they learn English/French. But as far as regular social customs, we can't make them fit into the majority when the so-called "majority" is so diverse. What's normal in Montreal may not be normal in Red Deer. What's acceptable for a bunch of hippies isn't acceptable for a bunch of conservative Christians.

Besides, it's not like born-and-raised Canadians NEVER disregard social norms, do anything offensive, push their beliefs on others, or change the culture of people around them.

[GLASSJAW]

Isn't it kind of hard to define a specific set of "Canadian values"? Most things that we would consider "universal values" are already written into law/bill of rights. Obviously it makes sense to make sure immigrants know and follow these laws. But it's hard to go further than that as one of the so-called "Canadian-values" is to let people live their lives as they want. Therefore there are thousands of different types of people in Canada, all with separate values and customs.

I agree with making sure immigrants are aware of things that are illegal in Canada, that may be acceptable in their own countries. Things such as domestic violence, homophobia, discrimination, etc. I also agree with making sure they learn English/French. But as far as regular social customs, we can't make them fit into the majority when the so-called "majority" is so diverse. What's normal in Montreal may not be normal in Red Deer. What's acceptable for a bunch of hippies isn't acceptable for a bunch of conservative Christians.

Besides, it's not like born-and-raised Canadians NEVER disregard social norms, do anything offensive, push their beliefs on others, or change the culture of people around them.

[prana16]

I think you'd be singing a different song if say, you're denied entry because you're not ascribing to "Russian" values in a documented form because you don't agree with their homophobic policies.

Just sounds like a PC version of "let's instill our perfect Western values to uncivilized folks" to me. As long as laws aren't broken and personal rights aren't infringed, it's deplorable to force people to assimilate like this. Quebec germ spreading it seems

[Common sense]

isn't the second bolded part the response to the first bolded part?

isn't that all we know is meant to be addressed in the 'mandatory education'?

this isn't really about religion or halloween or whatever, it's about equality

[silverpig]

I'm not a big fan of this. It's a non-solution to a sort-of problem.

With 40% of the population of metro Vancouver being of asian descent, that basically makes the city about 50% white, 40% asian (chinese and indian mostly, with vietnamese etc), and 10% "other".

This isn't very diverse. You're either white or asian. I live in Toronto now and there are plenty of people on the street who speak Russian, Polish, Greek, Italian... there are way more black people here than in Vancouver too.

Now, if you were to take a single traditional Sikh family from India and put them in a city of all white people, they'd have to adapt. They'd have to learn english, etc. If you take 10000 traditional Sikh families from India and put them in a city of all white people, they'll form their own isolated community and will be less likely to assimilate.

This is what I think the issue is. There is enough of a concentration of certain groups in Vancouver that the natural pressures to immerse in a new culture are reduced.

What I'm trying to say here is that I'm all for immigration, and I love the diversity it brings, but I think Vancouver could do a better job of bringing in a more diverse set of immigrants. Some of those would be European, yes, but I'm thinking about South American, African, and Middle Eastern immigrants as well.

[DonLever]

Its funny how he did not come out with this opinion while it was a politician. He was a NDP MLA for years, an NDP Premier, and Liberal MP and yet did not once voice that opinion.

He would have been political suicide if he came out with that stuff while he was in office. He would be called a racist and certainly lose the ethnic vote.

For the same reason no current sitting politician dare raise this issue, even though they may agree with it.

[RonMexico]

Its funny how he did not come out with this opinion while it was a politician. He was a NDP MLA for years, an NDP Premier, and Liberal MP and yet did not once voice that opinion.

He would have been political suicide if he came out with that stuff while he was in office. He would be called a racist and certainly lose the ethnic vote.

For the same reason no current sitting politician dare raise this issue, even though they may agree with it.

[DonLever]

What does losing the ethnic vote mean? Are you trying to tell me that all members of a certain ethnic background band together and vote for the same candidate? Speaking of herd mentality...

[nazzybertjovo]

Its funny how he did not come out with this opinion while it was a politician. He was a NDP MLA for years, an NDP Premier, and Liberal MP and yet did not once voice that opinion.

He would have been political suicide if he came out with that stuff while he was in office. He would be called a racist and certainly lose the ethnic vote.

For the same reason no current sitting politician dare raise this issue, even though they may agree with it.